You're asleep in bed and......

LenS said:
Jose, I agree with your choice 100%. A nice carbine with collapsible stock (meaning pre-ban for PRM) is an excellent home defense tool with the right ammo.
Click to expand...

I agree. Practice makes permanent.

IrXXzUN5IZzhhHudt-X4hDMyO7dbbdsN0300.jpg
 
Ross,

Yup. Seemed, well, fitting...

[smile]

dwarven1 said:
You named your shotgun HAGAR THE HORRIBLE????

BWAA HAA HAA!!!

[rofl] [laugh2] [rofl2]
Click to expand...

Jose,

To be honest, I bought the pistol grip(s) solely for sh!ts & giggles - it makes the shotgun scawy(ier) having the fore (and aft) pistol grips. I've only shot it with that grip using #8 birdshot, it was not a problem at all. In fact, I even broke a couple of clays with it on the skeet range, believe it or not.

Eventually I'll put a folding stock on it, because I don't like the "guess" factor of firing it with the pistol grip. I have patterned it, and with standard 00 buckshot it's a 4" spread at 25 feet. Widens to 8" at 75 feet. Always good to know...

Jose said:
I have a question for you guys with those stock-less shotguns.

Honestly, how controllable are those things without a stock when shooting loads that are proven manstoppers?

How in the hell can you aim one of those things effectively? Please don't tell me you just point in the general direction of the BG and pull the trigger......

I don't want to turn this into a peeing contest about gun choice. I just want to understand if you guys have tested those types of guns in a scenario where you would have to fire more than once and accurately.

Personally, if I were to keep a shotgun for HD, it would have a conventional stock.
Click to expand...
 
LenS said:
Jose, I agree with your choice 100%. A nice carbine with collapsible stock (meaning pre-ban for PRM) is an excellent home defense tool with the right ammo.
Click to expand...

What would you consider the right ammo for home defense?
 
Adam_MA said:
What would you consider the right ammo for home defense?
Click to expand...

I like Hornady TAP FPD 75 gr. It's expensive but it's good
stuff. Make sure your carbine will stabilize the heavy bullets
though.... most 16" 1/9 twist (or faster) will do okay, but it wouldnt
surprise me if some barrels cause keyholing. So buy one box and test it
before you spend a chunk of change on it.

FWIW, Hornady TAP 556 (nato spec) is a little better, but it's pretty much
made of unobtainium unless you have LE connections.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
IMake sure your carbine will stabilize the heavy bullets though.... most 16" 1/9 twist (or faster) will do okay, but it wouldnt
surprise me if some barrels cause keyholing.
Click to expand...
and keyholing at <25 feet is a problem why? That's not long enough to throw it off in it's path to the goblin, and a tumbling bullet would do more damage to Mr Goblin, right?

Not trying to be a wiseass, just trying to understand.
 
dwarven1 said:
and keyholing at <25 feet is a problem why? That's not long enough to throw it off in it's path to the goblin, and a tumbling bullet would do more damage to Mr Goblin, right?

Not trying to be a wiseass, just trying to understand.
Click to expand...

While we want the bullet to tumble, it's better if it does it -after- it hits
the target. (The newer, heavy weight OTM bullets are great in terms of having
that effect, at least in the tests I've seen.... mil/PMC types are also embracing these
loadings in droves... ergo, MK262 Mod0/1... TAP FPD 75 gn offers similar performance
to those loads. ) If it doesn't keyhole it also makes the whole package more
viable (accuracy wise) if the rare occasion ever arises that one needs to hit
targets at further distance out. If the gun is keyholing badly you end up with
a woefully inaccurate rifle at distance. Maybe it's just me, but I like to have a
carbine that's viable from 0-100 yards and not just 25 feet... [grin]

-Mike
 
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Alarm to make sure enveryone is awake and the PD are notified
4 Cell Mag light to hit or illuminate the BG
60 lb. Boxer named Lady to eat the BG
Ruger P85 in the quick safe just incase there is more then one BG and Lady is full.
 
Adam,

I haven't done any research on it, as it is very unlikely that I'd gain access to my CAR-15 in time wrt any house defense (short of a Katrina situation where you keep the rifle slung on your chest full time).

I did read some results of mil-spec ammo wrt wall penetration (favorable) years ago. Our PD uses TAP in their CARs.

I would suggest that you investigate any ballistics tests with TAP and the current mil-spec stuff to find what's suitable for home defense.

The key-holing is what does cause massive trauma damage in the target and it also contributes a lot to why it doesn't go thru as many walls as pistol/shotgun in various ammo tests.
 
Glock 27 in the night stand if I didn't hear them coming up the stairs over the alarm.[rolleyes]
SxS 12ga in the closet if I have a moment to get nasty. It was my old stake-out gun from back in the day [wink]
 
What about frangible ammo if you are worried about over penetration? From what I've read, and that is the scope of my experience with it, it acts like a FMJ on body tissue (so is deadly) but breaks apart on hard surfaces. (AccuTec)

Any thoughts?
 
bazfoo said:
What about frangible ammo if you are worried about over penetration? From what I've read, and that is the scope of my experience with it, it acts like a FMJ on body tissue (so is deadly) but breaks apart on hard surfaces. (AccuTec)

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

The box of truth did some tests with frangeable ammo. I can't find it right off but I'm pretty sure some 5.56X45 Frangable stuff did penetrate the water jugs well enugh to be considered effective, but pistol frangable ammo was not as effective
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm

I keep my 1911 in the nightstand for such occations, so I don't really know what ammo would be best for a 5.56
 
dwarven1 said:
NOW I understand your choice of home defense weapon...
Click to expand...

Ross, in that scenario the targets were about as far as they would be if I was standing at the entrance to the short L shaped hallway that leads from my living room to my bedrooms and the bad guys in my kitchen.

With a powerful weapon mounted light, Aimpoint sight, and Hornady 75 grain ammo, I would dominate all approaches to where my loved ones sleep while hardly exposing myself.
 
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Weer'd Beard said:
The box of truth did some tests with frangeable ammo. I can't find it right off but I'm pretty sure some 5.56X45 Frangable stuff did penetrate the water jugs well enugh to be considered effective, but pistol frangable ammo was not as effective
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm

I keep my 1911 in the nightstand for such occations, so I don't really know what ammo would be best for a 5.56
Click to expand...

Pretty interesting.

+1 on the 1911
 
christmas.jpg


They're going to trip over him on their way up stairs.The thud should start the parrots and guinea pig squawking and that'll wake me up.There're enough shoes and books on the stairs that they're guaranteed to trip at least twice,giving me plenty of time to greet them with

five7.jpg
 
BoB13 said:
The situation we all fear at night, intruder breaks in your home while your sleeping, you wake up, you can't get out, you and your family are in big trouble.......what's your go-to HDD. "Home DefenceDevice"

Not the SHTF go-to.....the grab it quick go-to.
Very curious.
Click to expand...

I would....Click here. Sound on!
 
outofbattery said:
christmas.jpg


They're going to trip over him on their way up stairs.The thud should start the parrots and guinea pig squawking and that'll wake me up.There're enough shoes and books on the stairs that they're guaranteed to trip at least twice,giving me plenty of time to greet them with

five7.jpg
Click to expand...

I dunno, the 5.7 ammo seems very weak to me. On the one hand the PS90 is definitely a dream to control, point and shoot, but I find that 1) the optical sight is hard to see in anything other than ideal range condition 2) the iron sights are useless, and 3) the ammunition just doesn't make me confident that I'll put someone down.

That said, it's a really fun gun to shoot if you don't feel pain every time you shoot an overpriced round of ammunition
 
After my intrusion alarm goes off, waking me up and startling the living crap out of me, any intruder still around is a dumbass and deserves what comes next.
 
SIG 2340 in 40, and a Streamlight 6P.

Time permitting, that gets me to the closet and unlocks the 11-87 - slugs, no neighbors near me!

Since buckshot won't spread in my house, and I have no overpenetration worries, I figure the slug is my best option for stopping.
 

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