17-year-old arrested in killing of 2 people in Kenosha

[meh]

Just because it's emotional doesn't invalidate it. In your eyes, maybe.

I didn’t say it was invalid because it was emotional. The press is helping grieving, irrational parents make fools of themselves. In this statement they admit to being ignorant of the evidence in the case, defend their decision to remain ignorant, and in their ignorance declare someone a murderer. Their recalcitrant prejudice is forgivable, but making sure as many people as possible know about it is exploitive. People do love to gawk.

 

[SgtHal75]

Scumbag's Mom : Muh baby was just minding his own business peacefully protesting when this crazy madman shot him.

Kyle's lawyer : View attachment 546351
Defense rests.

Looking to cash in on there dirtbag son

 

[Picton]

I didn’t say it was invalid because it was emotional. The press is helping grieving, irrational parents make fools of themselves. In this statement they admit to being ignorant of the evidence in the case, defend their decision to remain ignorant, and in their ignorance declare someone a murderer. Their recalcitrant prejudice is forgivable, but making sure as many people as possible know about it is exploitive. People do love to gawk.

It’s not the media‘s responsibility to protect people from making fools of themselves.

Put yourself in the press’ shoes: a “victim” gets shot in a high-profile case. The family contacts you wanting to make a statement. OF COURSE you run that statement. You’re there to report the news and make money, and so are all the other media outlets afraid of being scooped.

I think you’re expecting way too much from the press.

 

[Hoover]

I believe (IANAL) that a civil judgement remains against him pretty much forever, until he pays it off. That means a lifelong future of payment plans, wage garnishment, and complicated tax returns. I think they'd be unable to go after his future inheritance, but once he inherits it it becomes fair game.

This is why there's a booming industry of people who are good at hiding money from things like this. One hopes Kyle and his parents will seek the help of an experienced financial advisor if the judgement goes against him.

Sharpton still owes from when he defamed people in the early 1990s. I believe tawana brawley had her wages garnished 4 years ago because she wasn’t paying what she owed either. I’m not sure if declaring bankruptcy can reduce or eliminate a civil judgement but time doesn’t.

 

[meh]

It’s not the media‘s responsibility to protect people from making fools of themselves.

Put yourself in the press’ shoes: a “victim” gets shot in a high-profile case. The family contacts you wanting to make a statement. OF COURSE you run that statement. You’re there to report the news and make money, and so are all the other media outlets afraid of being scooped.

I think you’re expecting way too much from the press.

You have a penchant for strawman arguments. Every single time I respond, I have to disavow your interpretation of what I said. I didn’t say it was their “responsibility”. I said they shouldn’t do it. There’s a difference.

 

[Picton]

You have a penchant for strawman arguments. Every single time I respond, I have to disavow your interpretation of what I said. I didn’t say it was their “responsibility”. I said they shouldn’t do it. There’s a difference.

But why shouldn’t they?

Why do you think the media exists?

I think you’re holding them to an impossibly flexible standard. Your beliefs about how they “should” behave aren’t something they should care about. Their own bottom line is what makes sense to them.

 

[amb]

Sharpton still owes from when he defamed people in the early 1990s. I believe tawana brawley had her wages garnished 4 years ago because she wasn’t paying what she owed either. I’m not sure if declaring bankruptcy can reduce or eliminate a civil judgement but time doesn’t.

FWIW, Goetz declared bankruptcy shortly after the civil judgement against him, and got to leave some massive legal bills behind because of it but I'm 90% sure he still has the judgement hanging over him. That said, FisherTech said "usually" and there was nothing usual about either of the cases in question.

Another thing I learned out of the Goetz judgement is that by NY law wage garnishment to repay judgements is limited to 10%. Not sure how that plays out for the self-employed but it's a lot better than I was assuming.

 

[meh]

But why shouldn’t they?

Why do you think the media exists?

I think you’re holding them to an impossibly flexible standard. Your beliefs about how they “should” behave aren’t something they should care about. Their own bottom line is what makes sense to them.

I think what you think I think is not what I actually think. I also think nobody wants an essay from me on the reason the media exists, whether I'm "holding them" to a standard at all by questioning their motives in publishing this particular information, and if so, precisely what that standard might be.

 

[Picton]

I think what you think I think is not what I actually think. I also think nobody wants an essay from me on the reason the media exists, whether I'm "holding them" to a standard at all by questioning their motives in publishing this particular information, and if so, precisely what that standard might be.

Well then, with respect, why bring it up?

What “should” they do when newsworthy people issue press releases?

 

[meh]

Well then, with respect, why bring it up?

Seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[FiremanBob]

I heard Judge Schroeder after the verdict was read say he was dismissing all charges "with prejudice". That probably has no effect on civil suits. I would think it would be very bad karma for the relatives of the criminals who attacked Kyle to file suit, and bad karma can have consequences. Just sayin'...

 

[Picton]

Just gots to remember: the standard of proof is different in a civil trial.

Criminal trials use a "reasonable doubt" standard, civil ones use a "preponderance of the evidence" standard. It's entirely possible to be acquitted criminally, but held civilly liable: happens all the time, in fact.

 

[Dench]

Maybe because I'm old and jaded but I find him very Naive, but it was good shooting under pressure.!

He's 18. He's supposed to be naive.

 

[meh]

Just gots to remember: the standard of proof is different in a civil trial.

Criminal trials use a "reasonable doubt" standard, civil ones use a "preponderance of the evidence" standard. It's entirely possible to be acquitted criminally, but held civilly liable: happens all the time, in fact.

This is true, but is there any evidence that Kyle was not acting in self-defense? The prosecution in the criminal case was so dumfounded by the lack of evidence in court that they tried to fabricate evidence of provocation with no witnesses and no clear photographic or video evidence. How are they going to go from 0% to 51%, and bear in mind that their obstacles will be greater, since the criminal history of those who were shot and what they were doing there won't be excluded. Seems to me that when you open things up for the civil litigation, things get worse for the plaintiffs, not for Kyle, even though the bar is lower.

 

[Picton]

This is true, but is there any evidence that Kyle was not acting in self-defense? The prosecution in the criminal case was so dumfounded by the lack of evidence in court that they tried to fabricate evidence of provocation with no witnesses and no clear photographic or video evidence. How are they going to go from 0% to 51%, and bear in mind that their obstacles will be greater, since the criminal history of those who were shot and what they were doing there won't be excluded. Seems to me that when you open things up for the civil litigation, things get worse for the plaintiffs, not for Kyle, even though the bar is lower.

I think, and hope, you're right. But as I understand it, the burden goes something like this: "Is it more likely than not that Kyle wrongly caused their deaths?" I don't know how wrongly is defined in WI civil statute, and I don't care enough to look it up. I am heartened that nothing's been filed yet. I think the longer the plaintiffs wait, the more of an indication it is that their case is weaker than they'd like it to be.

I can see Rosenbaum going the other way, given the wrong jury. But, again, I'm not as knowledgeable about the ins and outs of the case as the lawyers will be by the time this goes to trial.

 

[Waher]

View: https://twitter.com/DefNotDarth/status/1464681757513592838


View: https://twitter.com/DefNotDarth/status/1464681774299111427

 

[drgrant]

Just gots to remember: the standard of proof is different in a civil trial.

Criminal trials use a "reasonable doubt" standard, civil ones use a "preponderance of the evidence" standard. It's entirely possible to be acquitted criminally, but held civilly liable: happens all the time, in fact.

Meh, this isn't going anywhere if it goes civil. The dossier of the three scumbags he shot will get put front and center and that's the end of that. Good luck getting a jury to "feel bad" for the 3 scumbags in a flyover state. Not happening. Plus there's no pot of gold for the ambulance chaser.

Actually WRT self defense- "no it doesn't". A civil suit, let alone a successful one, in the wake of a clean SD shooting is pretty rare, regardless of what Ayoob wants people to think.

Let's put it this way, Rittenhouse is not OJ simpson. There's no "edge" here for the plaintiffs.

 

[Picton]

Meh, this isn't going anywhere if it goes civil. The dossier of the three scumbags he shot will get put front and center and that's the end of that. Good luck getting a jury to "feel bad" for the 3 scumbags in a flyover state. Not happening. Plus there's no pot of gold for the ambulance chaser.

Actually WRT self defense- "no it doesn't". A civil suit, let alone a successful one, in the wake of a clean SD shooting is pretty rare, regardless of what Ayoob wants people to think.

Let's put it this way, Rittenhouse is not OJ simpson. There's no "edge" here for the plaintiffs.

Hope and trust you're right. I just never say never.

 

[meh]

I think, and hope, you're right. But as I understand it, the burden goes something like this: "Is it more likely than not that Kyle wrongly caused their deaths?" I don't know how wrongly is defined in WI civil statute, and I don't care enough to look it up. I am heartened that nothing's been filed yet. I think the longer the plaintiffs wait, the more of an indication it is that their case is weaker than they'd like it to be.

I can see Rosenbaum going the other way, given the wrong jury. But, again, I'm not as knowledgeable about the ins and outs of the case as the lawyers will be by the time this goes to trial.

There does seem to be some risk. In this case they would be trying to show that the cause of death being a "wrongful act". Wisconsin law says nothing about what a "wrongful act" even is. Kelly v. Mohrhusen (1971) cites a legal definition

The term "wrongful act" has usually been construed as a broad and comprehensive term. Generally, a wrongful act is any act which in the ordinary course will infringe upon the rights of another to his damage, unless it be done in the exercise of an equal or superior right. Black's Law Dictionary (4th ed.), p. 1788.

Self-defense is a superior right. Also, the Wisconsin law puts this frame around wrongful death:

This section places little restriction on the nature of the act, the primary element is that the act complained of must have entitled the party injured to maintain an action had he survived.

Complicating this is that Wisconsin allows for damages to be apportioned when both parties are at fault. If Rittenhouse was a minor at the time, would the suit have to name the custodial parent? That's not going to go over well, if so. Finally, damages are limited by statute, though are considerable, being hundreds of thousands of dollars per dependent child, spouse, etc.

Clearly the situation merits retaining skilled legal defense with attention to jury selection. Rosenbaum's family would be making a mistake, I think, given that any reasonable assessment would put more than 51% of the blame on him even if Rittenhouse weren't acting in self-defense. Huber has a better case, but since he's attempting to apprehend a suspected "fleeing felon", his family must succeed where the McMichaels failed, and they still need to show that Rittenhouse was not acting in self-defense (a superior right). Not exactly a slam dunk and promise of a big payday.

All this is "IANAL but" stuff. I'm ready to stand corrected on any of it.

 

[SpaceCritter]

View: https://twitter.com/DefNotDarth/status/1464681757513592838


View: https://twitter.com/DefNotDarth/status/1464681774299111427

JFC cannot someone find some swamp for this monster to sleep in already?

 

[wilson911]

Meh, this isn't going anywhere if it goes civil. The dossier of the three scumbags he shot will get put front and center and that's the end of that. Good luck getting a jury to "feel bad" for the 3 scumbags in a flyover state. Not happening. Plus there's no pot of gold for the ambulance chaser.

Actually WRT self defense- "no it doesn't". A civil suit, let alone a successful one, in the wake of a clean SD shooting is pretty rare, regardless of what Ayoob wants people to think.

Let's put it this way, Rittenhouse is not OJ simpson. There's no "edge" here for the plaintiffs.

Can Kyle sue the dead/injured for the assault? He was the victim.

 

[TLB]

Scumbag's Mom : Muh baby was just minding his own business peacefully protesting when this crazy madman shot him.

Kyle's lawyer : View attachment 546351
Defense rests.

I smile every time I think about Huber being dead. Reaped what he sowed for sure.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Scumbag's Mom : Muh baby was just minding his own business peacefully protesting when this crazy madman shot him.

Kyle's lawyer : View attachment 546351
Defense rests.

Yeah... no shit right. Cognitive disonnance.

No matter how many times I watch the videos, I still don't see Kyle firing the fatal shot. Such an impressive display of combat under stress.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Can Kyle sue the dead/injured for the assault? He was the victim.

They are/were all adults, with minimal assets; Kyle could counter-sue the estate, but who wants a "Skateboard, used, one bullet hole"

 

[Hoover]

Can Kyle sue the dead/injured for the assault? He was the victim.

He can sue the estates of the dead two. Rosenbaum was homeless and probably worth no more the $5; no point in suing his estate. I doubt Huber had more than $100. He was 26 and still into skateboarding and looked like a homeless junkie. He has no money. Grosskruetz isn’t worth much unless he wins that $10 million lawsuit from Kenosha (he’s not getting a dime in that suit) and you’d need injury/damages to sue. Rittenhouse shot him and wasn’t assaulted by grosskruetz so he doesn’t have much to sue on. Jump kick man kicked him but that injury was probably minor. Also, JKM is a career criminal who likely has a net worth of less than what you’d spend on lunch tomorrow.

The injury to rittenhouse is from the defamation via media and democrats. And that’s also we’re the cash windfall is, that’s where he should be focused.

If anyone does sue rittenhouse ie Hubers family, his lawyers will file a counter suit against Hubers estate since they’re going to go this route.

 

[Waher]

JFC cannot someone find some swamp for this monster to sleep in already?

Watch him get nominated to be a U.S. Attorney.

 

[MAGA99]

If I sucked at my job as much as that fag binger does, and had such an epic nationally/internationally televised fail as he did, I would shut my whore mouth and move onto my next complete failure in silence trying my hardest to be forgotten about forever!

I bet binger can’t even get any action at his local bath houses anymore due to the shameful job he did trying to put innocent Kyle behind bars.

 

[calsdad]

 

[SgtHal75]

Just gots to remember: the standard of proof is different in a civil trial.

Criminal trials use a "reasonable doubt" standard, civil ones use a "preponderance of the evidence" standard. It's entirely possible to be acquitted criminally, but held civilly liable: happens all the time, in fact.

OJ

 

[SgtHal75]

Just think his next DUI is going to have to be lefty