1903 decock when bolt closing.

[xp220]

I recently got a Remington 1903 (SN 3.02M) that is sporterized with a new barrel, scope and ram-line stock. The bolt seems to be A3 version with mod to fit the scope. The bolt has BF 46 mark. It also has a tuned trigger that is less than 2lb by my gauge. The gun is pretty accurate and I can get 3-5 shots within an inch at 100 yard with M2 HXP (or maybe this normal for 1903? This is my first 1903).

But the gun has a couple issues and I hope someonenco you could help:

1) the main issue is the gun will sometimes uncock/decock itself when I close the bolt. I have not found a pattern yet, but it seems to happen when I move the bolt forward to fast or too forceful. I initially suspected the light trigger related, but I did not see any movement of trigger when to this
happened. I had no accidental firing so far but I am concerned about it.

2) the second issue is similar to what being asked here before, the bolt is progressively harder to open after firing a round. After reading discussion here, I clean the bolt assembly throughout and it seems better the second time I shoot. But I will investigate further and try different trick.

Any hints or a 1903 gunsmith I could talk to about #1 issue?

Thanks

 

[milktree]

My wild ass guess:

1) the sear has been over-modified and it’s not catching every time. The trigger doesn’t have to move for the firing pin/striker to skip over it.

2) I’m not sure I understand the problem completely, fits guess is that the chamber is dirty or needs to be polished. Or are you saying that the bolt is hard to open even with an empty chamber, if you’ve been shooting for a while?

 

[xp220]

2) the bolt was hard to open only after firing a round with a case in the chamber. Like I need hand to hold the receiver and one hand to wrestling the bolt. When chamber is empty or dry firing, it has no problem.

While the bolt operates well dry, there is seem a “bump” at the end of the bolt opening, seems to touch the magazine spring. (It is certainly no as “smooth” as a Tikka T3, the only other center bolt action I have to compare with).

 

[PatMcD]

Sear engagement too light.

 

[xp220]

When cock properly, I have done a few “stock bump” test (dry) on the floor, pretty hard bumps, no decocking at all. So I thought the sear engagement is ok?

 

[PatMcD]

When cock properly, I have done a few “stock bump” test (dry) on the floor, no decocking at all. So I thought the sear engagement is ok?

Nope.

 

[xp220]

Previous owner also mentioned a small piece to reduce creep for the trigger. See photo below. It looks like it is behind the sear spring holding hole, in a slot on the receiver. It is not touching any part of the sear. I could not find this in any diagram. Does anyone know about this piece?

It does not seem to change the creep or trigger pull with or without it.

 

[peterk123]

I can't offer any help here. Just very interested in learning. My rookie reaction was the sear. When you say de-cocking, is the firing pin striking the round in the chamber?

 

[xp220]

Did not strike, or very light touch (so far)

 

[Picton]

Does it still spontaneously de-cock when you remove the "small piece to reduce creep" you mentioned in post #7?

 

[PatMcD]

I'm going to guess that if you close the bolt slowly, the sear catches and the bolt stays cocked. If you run it fast; it doesn't catch.
Classic case of not enough sear engagement.
Hard to tell in the pics, but if those are original trigger parts, they may have been worked over (modified) too much and will need to be replaced. Probably Numrich has all original parts for not much money, or, you can get an aftermarket kit that will allow adjustments.

 

[xp220]

Does it still spontaneously de-cock when you remove the "small piece to reduce creep" you mentioned in post #7?

Yes. It does. Will get a new sear and a sear spring from Numrich to try it out.

 

[cemorse]

The part you referred to in post #7 is the bolt stop. Its function is to hold the bolt open during inspection arms or cleaning. It has no effect on the trigger and can be removed without harming anything. It was not installed in the later Remington 03 or the 03A3. I agree with the other posters that the trigger parts have been modified and should be replaced especially if the rifle is to be used for hunting.
Charlie

 

[xp220]

The parts (a new sear and sear spring) arrived today so I have done some experiments. I tried to dissect the issue so I did the following experiments:

A) Old sear spring, new sear
B) New sear spring, old sear

In case #A, the bolt decocked almost every time when I cocked and closed the bolt.

In case #B, It is obvious the new spring is stronger than the old one. I had 1-2 decocking event during the tests - it was before I put the receiver back to stock, maybe my hand touched the trigger accidently. After putting stock back, I cocked/closed the bolt more than 60 times continuously, no decocking event. At this point, the trigger pull weight is about 2 lb 2 oz. (vs previous 1 lb 8 oz -ish with old sear spring and old sear)

I did not try new sear spring + new sear. I will test #B combination more to see if decocking happens before I try with new spring+ new sear. I will assume that would have slightly more triggers pull weight. I mostly likely will not use this for hunting anyway.

I am curious why this is worse than using the old sear - even though the old bolt seems slightly modified at the engagement point.

WRT to the "progressive difficult bolt opening", I changed to a new extractor. I recalled that when I first test-fired the rifle, I use hand-feed method to load a round, which make the bolt harder and harder to open. When test it the second time, I use magazine/bolt to feed, the issue is less, but still harder than dry-fire after a few rounds. I also noticed that the extractor was not graping the case fully. So I decide to change to a new extractor. I will test fire tomorrow or Saturday

 

[mac1911]

The parts (a new sear and sear spring) arrived today so I have done some experiments. I tried to dissect the issue so I did the following experiments:

A) Old sear spring, new sear
B) New sear spring, old sear

In case #A, the bolt decocked almost every time when I cocked and closed the bolt.

In case #B, It is obvious the new spring is stronger than the old one. I had 1-2 decocking event during the tests - it was before I put the receiver back to stock, maybe my hand touched the trigger accidently. After putting stock back, I cocked/closed the bolt more than 60 times continuously, no decocking event. At this point, the trigger pull weight is about 2 lb 2 oz. (vs previous 1 lb 8 oz -ish with old sear spring and old sear)

I did not try new sear spring + new sear. I will test #B combination more to see if decocking happens before I try with new spring+ new sear. I will assume that would have slightly more triggers pull weight. I mostly likely will not use this for hunting anyway.

I am curious why this is worse than using the old sear - even though the old bolt seems slightly modified at the engagement point.

WRT to the "progressive difficult bolt opening", I changed to a new extractor. I recalled that when I first test-fired the rifle, I use hand-feed method to load a round, which make the bolt harder and harder to open. When test it the second time, I use magazine/bolt to feed, the issue is less, but still harder than dry-fire after a few rounds. I also noticed that the extractor was not graping the case fully. So I decide to change to a new extractor. I will test fire tomorrow or Saturday

Wellcome to the world of modified surplus rifles.
We cant even begin to know what condition this rifle was in pre conversion. Many “hunting” rifles where built from surplus rifles.
Best thing to do is find some specifications and start measuring.

Bolt over riding the sear - something is worn . Make sure the trigger is also returning to position.
Hard case extraction
Clean the bejeez out of everything including the lugs down in the receiver.

If the bolt is hard to operate with out a cartridge . Check the extractor retaining ring make sure its not fubar
The cocking ring can get fudge up also.