2023 MA Gun Ban: House has engrossed H.4139, waiting on Senate

[Roadglide]

This is still a pile of stink but now it might be in a place where G.O.A.L. and we can at least dull the sharp edges to something we can live with

Not another inch

 

[SIGNES]

This is the next phone call/letter writing/email front. Any CoP who came out against this last time needs a phone call this time to remind him that the rhetoric he spewed back then is still just as valid.

Exactly this!

 

[Snora]

Looking forward to the GOAL podcast summary of the changes.

 

[bigbravehog]

This is the next phone call/letter writing/email front. Any CoP who came out against this last time needs a phone call this time to remind him that the rhetoric he spewed back then is still just as valid.

but it won't happen. Every LEO I know personally just wants to go home alive at the end of the day, and if that means increasing gun control while exempting themselves, then so be it.

 

[GOAL]

This is a simple text compare between 4420 and this new bill. It's going to take some time to fully understand the implications, but we are on it.

 

[Picton]

Already emailed my legislators. I'll call them later, once I'm off work.

 

[Picton]

but it won't happen. Every LEO I know personally just wants to go home alive at the end of the day, and if that means increasing gun control while exempting themselves, then so be it.

I do not disagree at all. It's still useful to reach out to them.

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

This is a simple text compare between 4420 and this new bill. It's going to take some time to fully understand the implications, but we are on it.

so they struct out the 1994 date? Does that mean, all firearms are grandfathered or they are going after even the grandfathered firearms from 1994? As in a complete ban on everything regardless of Pre-ban status?

 

[LT5]

The problem is politicians face no consequences whatsoever for pushing blatantly unconstitutional legislation. They should be afraid of the public throwing bricks at them if they violate their oath of office. They should wonder if their police detail will turn on them for being tyrannical.
A man can dream

They shouldn’t have a police detail.

 

[ddeck]

so they struct out the 1994 date? Does that mean, all firearms are grandfathered or they are going after even the grandfathered firearms from 1994? As in a complete ban on everything regardless of Pre-ban status?

Looks like if you possessed (and registered) before Aug 1 2024 it is grandfathered:

1632 This section shall not apply to aan assault-style firearm lawfully possessed within the
1633 commonwealth on August 1, 2024, by an owner in possession of a license to carry issuedunder
1634 section 124, or by a holder of a license to sell under section 125; provided, that theassault-style
1635 firearm i

 

[Mark from MA]

LE will now be on board to sell us down the river.

Change bill number, exempt LE, ram it up our ass is what I expected.

 

[Uzi2]

Literally everyone saw it coming; but the PD opposition was required to get here. Now we find out where they really stand.

If/when this passes, we’ll also find out if FFLs will be willing to sell “LEO only” stuff, and if NES will still buy from those FFLs….

Did you ever have any doubt about where they stand?

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

Looks like if you possessed (and registered) before Aug 1 2024 it is grandfathered:

1632 This section shall not apply to aan assault-style firearm lawfully possessed within the
1633 commonwealth on August 1, 2024, by an owner in possession of a license to carry issuedunder
1634 section 124, or by a holder of a license to sell under section 125; provided, that theassault-style
1635 firearm i

interesting, so would this effectively remove AW restrictions on grandfathered firearms. a pre-24 rifle could look exactly like a pre-94 rifle as in adjustable stock? maybe 1 silver lining from this P.O.S. Authoritarian Bill if passed.

 

[ddeck]

interesting, so would this effectively remove AW restrictions on grandfathered firearms. a pre-24 rifle could look exactly like a pre-94 rifle as in adjustable stock?

No, I think the remaining part says that it would still have to comply with AWB if after 94. But if this bill passes, then theoretically you could still keep your post-1994 AWB compliant rifle

 

[MaroonedinMA]

Looks like if you possessed (and registered) before Aug 1 2024 it is grandfathered:

1632 This section shall not apply to aan assault-style firearm lawfully possessed within the
1633 commonwealth on August 1, 2024, by an owner in possession of a license to carry issuedunder
1634 section 124, or by a holder of a license to sell under section 125; provided, that theassault-style
1635 firearm i

FFS... get ready for a new generation of 'Pre-Magic Date deals!"

 

[Grendizer138]

Did you ever have any doubt about where they stand?

Actually yes. And I think the couple of PDs and the chiefs that came out in opposition should be applauded, not condemned for our suspicions.

 

[bigbravehog]

I do not disagree at all. It's still useful to reach out to them.

of course. They were "generally opposed" to 4420, and I'll find out what they think of 4607 now that they are exempt.

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

No, I think the remaining part says that it would still have to comply with AWB if after 94. But if this bill passes, then theoretically you could still keep your post-1994 AWB compliant rifle

oh FFS, cant even give us that. I can see it now.... WTS Pre-Pre Ban rifle.

 

[Dennis in MA]

There's got to be some sort of constitutional protection against setting up a special class of citizen. If you're not on duty your just a slob like the rest of us.

What if we bought a spit-ton of land somewhere and then split off from that town and created our own town. Everyone is now a sworn poe-lease ossifer. Pay $150 a year per person, get a LTC as fast as humanly possible, buy any handgun you want and all that.

It's near impossible, but it'd be damned funny if someone tried it. I'd put up $ for it if someone had the know-how. Like real $. Beat them at their own game.

 

[xero2099]

Actually yes. And I think the couple of PDs and the chiefs that came out in opposition should be applauded, not condemned for our suspicions.

depends if they put their money where their mouth is again and publicly oppose

 

[Picton]

Actually yes. And I think the couple of PDs and the chiefs that came out in opposition should be applauded, not condemned for our suspicions.

I'll applaud them if they come out against 4607 as vociferously as they did against 4420. If they stay silent, I won't.

 

[zmf]

Looks like it's time to become a cop.

 

[Grendizer138]

I'll applaud them if they come out against 4607 as vociferously as they did against 4420. If they stay silent, I won't.

I agree, but it’s counterproductive to condemn them when they do in fact speak out just because we suspect they’re not genuine. And it dissuades others who have more pull than we do from also taking up the cause. I think we should put the heat on more PDs to see where they stand.

 

[not new guy]

What a moron.

Michael proudly represents the towns of Stoneham and Winchester. He and his wife Megan live and are active in Stoneham, where they are raising their three sons, Conor, Ryan and Finnegan. Michael founded his own law firm in 2012 after working as a Special Assistant District Attorney in Middlesex County and practicing law at Mintz Levin in Boston for nearly ten years. He is one of the leading advocates of civil rights and civil liberties issues in the Boston Bar Association, and until recently served on the Board of Directors of a non-profit organization dedicated to ending child abuse. He coaches Mite players in Stoneham Youth Hockey.

 

[CrackPot]

This is a simple text compare between 4420 and this new bill. It's going to take some time to fully understand the implications, but we are on it.

I dont know if compare is the best way to figure it out or not. Some take aways from going through it looking for specific things

Lines 16-19 reference the wrong section for dealer licenses

They made law enforcement exempt from the AWB and mag limits this time. They changed it from licensed dealers (no limit) to 07 FFLs solely for sale out of state. Not sure how anyone sells to law enforcement as written

Everything is an assault weapon

Grandfathering 8/1/24

Full blown registration. It appears that DEALERS have to register anything they "import" into the state within 7 days.

Bonded warehouse language updated and not all dealers are eligible for stealing peoples guns

Online dealer training requirement

The language appears to prohibit dealers from selling online even out of state

Roster now includes ALL firearms so rifles and shotguns (intentional or unintentional?)

No carrying a loaded large capacity firearm in your car. So if you want to carry in your car, you are limited to revolvers. Unless 501 CMR 7 survives this but would need to be updated

Delayed implementation of 6-18 months depending on sections

allows private ammunition sales but subject to the 4 per year (seems to count firearms or ammunition each instance so not sure what that means. 4 rounds? 4 boxes? 4 times? BADLY worded)

Dealers must track all firearm, ammo and feeding device sales. It feels like FA10s for feeding devices and ammo. Even 10rd feeding devices require a LTC

 

[whatluck]

Further search and scan indicates (I've not been able to read line by line) that the barrel serialization, live fire tests and at least the worst of the shipping limitations are also gone. This is still a pile of stink but now it might be in a place where G.O.A.L. and we can at least dull the sharp edges to something we can live with while waiting for the courts to more fully un%^&* it.

EDIT: To be VERY clear, a) I haven't looked at every word. b) It's still a #$%^&show. c) It shouldn't pass (but likely will). d) I hate every word of it. e) My point about 'living with after some negotiation' is a position of realism in our current climate not a "no big deal, what's so bad?" position.

Oh, and one more edit: The 'only on private property with explicit permission' (still in the bill) is ripe for court challenge, unenforceable and completely undermines the whole notion of self defense carry.

And one more edit thanks to @ddeck22. Live fire training is still in there at line 1324.

No more edits. New info coming to light for me will be new posts.

i had to quote this post because its so delightfully dripping with subversion and deception.

 

[whatluck]

I dont know if compare is the best way to figure it out or not. Some take aways from going through it looking for specific things

Lines 16-19 reference the wrong section for dealer licenses

They made law enforcement exempt from the AWB and mag limits this time. They changed it from licensed dealers (no limit) to 07 FFLs solely for sale out of state. Not sure how anyone sells to law enforcement as written

Everything is an assault weapon

Grandfathering 8/1/24

Full blown registration. It appears that DEALERS have to register anything they "import" into the state within 7 days.

Bonded warehouse language updated and not all dealers are eligible for stealing peoples guns

Online dealer training requirement

The language appears to prohibit dealers from selling online even out of state

Roster now includes ALL firearms so rifles and shotguns (intentional or unintentional?)

No carrying a loaded large capacity firearm in your car. So if you want to carry in your car, you are limited to revolvers. Unless 501 CMR 7 survives this but would need to be updated

Delayed implementation of 6-18 months depending on sections

allows private ammunition sales but subject to the 4 per year (seems to count firearms or ammunition each instance so not sure what that means. 4 rounds? 4 boxes? 4 times? BADLY worded)

Dealers must track all firearm, ammo and feeding device sales. It feels like FA10s for feeding devices and ammo. Even 10rd feeding devices require a LTC

The fact that signes does so much mental contortions to defend something like this really glows.

 

[Roadglide]

Did you ever have any doubt about where they stand?

A few did

 

[Picton]

Already emailed my legislators. I'll call them later, once I'm off work.

Emailed Mariano, as well.

Early and often, people...

 

[SwampYankee42]

The fact that signes does so much mental contortions to defend something like this really glows.

Its OBNOXIOUSLY apparent. They aren't sending their best folks

"how do you do fellow gun owners of Massachusetts?"