.30-06 for F-Class?

[meth0d]

I'm interested in getting into F-Class, and I have a Savage 111 in .30-06 non-accu trigger. Would this be suitable for F-Class, or would I be better off getting something like a 10 FP, .223 with the accu trigger?

I'm open to any suggestions on equipment, and if anyone in the upper Cape/Plymouth area would be interested in some range time to teach a newb some tips and tricks, let me know.

Thanks!

 

[bpm990d]

Does it have a sporter weight barrel? You are going to be shooting 17 - 22 shots at a time through it so you really want something like a varmint weight or heavier. Savage is a great action though. You can replace the barrel yourself if you want to do some work. However you get into other issues with the stock in-letting for the barrel ... etc ... etc.

The caliber is not very good though. It puts you in the F-Open and it expensive to reload for. If you are just starting out my recommendation would be F-TR and shoot .308 or .223. I'd go with the .223 because it is so inexpensive to shoot in comparison to the .308. The two are about a wash as far as wind drift goes though.

For a scope you want about as much as you can get. A 20X is probably a little on the lite side as far as magnification. Stick with a fine cross hair or a 1/8th target dot. Fancy reticles like mil dots have limited applications.

Probably the best thing you could do is go to a match. Your rifle should be legal as long as it doesn't have a muzzle break. You can shoot it and get an idea of what is going on. They have matches at Reading, Nashua and Scarborough. On May 8th there is a mid range prone match at Nashua.

B

 

[oneswithfunes]

You could get your self a .308 tube and pop it on your action and call it good.

 

[meth0d]

Does it have a sporter weight barrel? You are going to be shooting 17 - 22 shots at a time through it so you really want something like a varmint weight or heavier. Savage is a great action though. You can replace the barrel yourself if you want to do some work. However you get into other issues with the stock in-letting for the barrel ... etc ... etc.

The caliber is not very good though. It puts you in the F-Open and it expensive to reload for. If you are just starting out my recommendation would be F-TR and shoot .308 or .223. I'd go with the .223 because it is so inexpensive to shoot in comparison to the .308. The two are about a wash as far as wind drift goes though.

For a scope you want about as much as you can get. A 20X is probably a little on the lite side as far as magnification. Stick with a fine cross hair or a 1/8th target dot. Fancy reticles like mil dots have limited applications.

Probably the best thing you could do is go to a match. Your rifle should be legal as long as it doesn't have a muzzle break. You can shoot it and get an idea of what is going on. They have matches at Reading, Nashua and Scarborough. On May 8th there is a mid range prone match at Nashua.

B

Yea, it's a sporter weight barrel, and I've only got a Sightron SII 3-9x42mm on it. I think I'll keep it as a hunting gun and save up some pennies for a .223 offering from Savage. Thank you for your input, if I can get the time off I'm definitely interested in stopping by one of the matches, even just to observe.

You could get your self a .308 tube and pop it on your action and call it good.

I considered it, but for the money, I'm going to go for a new gun instead.

+ reps

 

[oneswithfunes]

Here Is a good place to start reading.
www.6mmbr.com is also a good place. Getting a new rifle would be a wise choice. Also depending on how much you are going to shoot it I would highly recommend reloading if you don't already. I would however not get a .223 if the main purpose in a f class target rifle. The wind will kill you.

 

[bpm990d]

It's pretty much a wash as far as wind drift. If you read this post by Jerry Tierney on longrange.com (you need to register to get access) he posted the velocities he is getting with his .223.

The .224 90 Berger G7 BC is the same as the 185 Berger and the Savage F/TR rifles have 7 twist barrels on them and the 90 Berger VLD will stabilize nicely in them at the velocities he is reporting.

At 2850 there is two tenths of an inch of difference in a full value 10 MPH wind at 600 yards between it and a Berger 210 VLD at 2570.

Here is the 90 Berger.

Here is the 210 Berger.

I never would have believed it myself unless I ran the numbers. If you have not done so, it's worth the time to read Bryan Litz's article What's Wrong with .30 Caliber?.

The other difficult to quantify variable is how much nicer it is to shoot a .223. A 210 bullet really thumps and for long strings it can be difficult to shoot well.

B

 

[meth0d]

Thank you bpm990d for that information, I had read similar on 6mmbr earlier today.

ETA: Bryan Litz's article was a very interesting read, thank you!

 

[oneswithfunes]

I should have figured that there was a vld that was better than Sierras 80 smk. Learn something new everyday. The 308 load I use has 1.7 mil or something like 65 inches for 1k and .9 at 600. 208 amax at 2700. Its been a while since I shot any .223 thanks for the information. I also feel that if a shooter is having difficulty with the heavy's from a NON magnum 30 cal, more dry fire is in order to keep fundamentals correct YMMV. Just my opinion.

 

[bpm990d]

2700 fps is going pretty good for a 208 Amax! I calculated 69.55 at 1000 and 22 at 600. That is inside the other two by a bit and it would make a difference in a switchy wind. If you shoot something a little more mainstream like an 80 Gr. sierra, the 308 will beat it.

B

 

[Kenny474]

Team USA, which has several members of Team Savage, cleaned house at the F-Class world championship in Bisley, England winning 14 medals, and the Team Savage shooters were using stock Savage F-T/R rifles chambered in .308. So if you are looking for an F-T/R rifle, the Savage is the way to go for a factory rifle. And as oneswithfunes already mentioned, 6mmbr.com is an awesome site for knowledge on competitive shooting.

The link to the article is below.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/08/savage-f-tr-team-world-beaters-on-a-budget/

 

[Jasper]

F-Class is VERY doable with .223 (and you can definately be VERY competitive with it!). unfortunately, there isnt a 1000yd range (with civilian access) within a couple hundred miles. there is, however, Nashua F&S, Reading, Scarborough (or Hampden, i forget), all with 600yard ranges.

an 80gr SMK will clean the target time after time if the shooter does his/her part. yes, theres more wind drift, but it isnt significant compared to what you'd see further out west (the ranges mentioned are fairly well sheltered by trees).

i've looked at the 90gr VLD's, but i cant stabilize them in the rifle i've got (20" 1:7.5). ballistic data puts the 90gr VLD's way ahead of the 80gr SMK's, but they're VERY picky with OAL (they typically want to be seated 0.015" INTO the lands). the 80's i shoot dont seem to be overly picky with the jump (i'm seating them .010" off the lands), and will shoot 1MOA or better if i do my part.


plus, ya cant beat the price of .223 for reloading compared to .308, .30-06, 6BR/6XC, etc.

 

[8x57mm]

Putting holes in paper? Smaller calibers make sense. Cheaper, less recoil. If your purpose for shooting F-Class is to gain skills that can translate into actual tactical long-range shooting, then .308 is the way to go. The .223 is great for varmints, but downrange energy is what matters (as much as accuracy) in the case of bigger game.

As decades of military testing found that a 175gr SMK, over 42gr of Reloader 15, with an MV of 2650fps was the best performing .308 Win. sniper round, that's what I started with for F/TR. The Savage, with it's 1:10 twist is especially fond of them. I've found no reason to dither with it. Now, when it comes to putting holes in something other than paper, all I need to do is substitute GameKing for MatchKing, and I'm good to go. Just something to consider.

JR

 

[bpm990d]

I'm not really sure that shooting long string of fire on a KD range with a large paper bullseye has much to do with tactical/practical shooting. All of the challenging tactical pieces are left out.

I think it goes without saying thought that if you are shooting something living, a larger caliber is much preferable.

B

 

[meth0d]

I'm not a LEO or in the military, so F Class would just be for fun and to improve my marksmanship, no tactical shooting in my immediate future, haha. I'm still saving my pennies for one of these, so I've got a bit of time to make the caliber decision. The input is much appreciated.

 

[PatMcD]

I'm interested in getting into F-Class, and I have a Savage 111 in .30-06 non-accu trigger. Would this be suitable for F-Class, or would I be better off getting something like a 10 FP, .223 with the accu trigger?

I'm open to any suggestions on equipment, and if anyone in the upper Cape/Plymouth area would be interested in some range time to teach a newb some tips and tricks, let me know.

Thanks!

I won't argue with the other replies that recommend a different caliber, however, I would suggest going to a prone match and using the rifle you have. Although it is not ideal, your 30-06 should give you an idea whether or not you want to continue in the sport. I see a lot of people dump a ton of money into something they haven't tried and then decide it's not for them.
If you like challenging yourself, then Highpower/F-class can be extremely addicting. F-class can be considered more "equipment-dependent" and XTC-Highpower can be considered more "shooter-dependent". Either one is a hell of a lot of fun.

 

[meth0d]

I won't argue with the other replies that recommend a different caliber, however, I would suggest going to a prone match and using the rifle you have. Although it is not ideal, your 30-06 should give you an idea whether or not you want to continue in the sport. I see a lot of people dump a ton of money into something they haven't tried and then decide it's not for them.
If you like challenging yourself, then Highpower/F-class can be extremely addicting. F-class can be considered more "equipment-dependent" and XTC-Highpower can be considered more "shooter-dependent". Either one is a hell of a lot of fun.

Oh really? That's interesting, I would prefer something more "shooter dependent" as you put it, since I wont have a ton of cash to dump into equipment. Can you point me to a site for more info on XTC highpower?

 

[bpm990d]

Well across the course still has a lot of gear so I'm not sure it's less expensive. You can check out USRifleTeams.com. They have two forums. One for Long Range shooting and one for across the course type shooting.

B

EDIT: There is a guy selling a nice 6mm rifle on there right now for cheap money.

 

[Jose]

Oh really? That's interesting, I would prefer something more "shooter dependent" as you put it, since I wont have a ton of cash to dump into equipment. Can you point me to a site for more info on XTC highpower?

If you want to shoot prone but want a more "shooter centric" experience, I definitely recommend shooting NRA mid range prone using a conventional match rifle or an NRA/CMP service rifle.

Those rifles cannot use any external means of support (no front rests, no bipods, and no rear stock bags. The rifle is held up by your shooting position agumented by a sling and a shooting coat. Telescopic sights are not allowed. You can use accurized military sights on service rifles or ultra precise aperture sights on match rifles. Don't worry, the black bullseye on the target is always 6 MOA in diameter, which is a size that the naked, healthy human eye can see and focus on with ease.

Here's my .308 Winchester single shot prone rifle and what a view through its sights looks like. The bipod it rests on is only for keeping the rifle upright when not shooting it. Once in position, the bipod comes nowhere close to the ground. Just behind the bipod you can see the handstop, which serves as the sling attachment and as a positive stop for your support hand on the forearm.

And a shot of the coat and sling

 

[Jose]

And the cool thing about shooting NRA mid range (300 - 600 yards) and long range (800 - 1000 yards) prone is that you can compete and practice with all the same gear for much less by shooting NRA smallbore prone. Smallbore prone at 100 yards will give you a real good taste of shooting 600 yards with a non-magnum caliber. Shooting a smallbore at 200 yards is like shooting a 308 at 1000 - 1200 yards.

 

[PatMcD]

Oh really? That's interesting, I would prefer something more "shooter dependent" as you put it, since I wont have a ton of cash to dump into equipment. Can you point me to a site for more info on XTC highpower?

Either discipline has a lot of gear that needs to be bought. For Accross-the-course (XTC), you need at the minimum: rifle, jacket, spotting scope and stand, glove, and good ammo (handloaded, because you just can't buy it). The easiest and cheapest rifle to get into is Service Rifle (AR).

For F-class, you need a rifle, rest, maybe a jacket (maybe not if unlimited), a rest or bipod, and good ammo (again handloaded).

In F-class, a lot of the shooter-induced variables are taken away because you are shooting from a rest and have a scope. That makes it more of an "arms race" where a fancy wildcat caliber(not so wild anymore) and $2000 scope CAN make a difference in your X-count. Not ALL shooter-variables are removed, though. You still need to read the wind and pull the trigger.

XTC or traditional Highpower relies more on the shooter than the equipment. Almost EVERYBODY in the game has a rifle that can clean the course or win a National Championship. It can be easily bought for around $1100. The challenge comes with trying to shoot that rifle off-hand and sitting and sling-supported prone. It's a huge target, but sometimes it seems really, really small.

I suggest you try both.

 

[Jose]

Just to be sure this is understood, F class is not a discipline in and of itself. It is a subset of NRA mid range and long range prone. It is shot over the same courses of fire and distances but with its own target where the scoring rings are half large as those of the conventional targets designed to be used with metallic sights.