All safe after Oxford High lockdown

[Admin]

http://telegram.com/article/20080122/ALERT01/973971929

By Craig S. Semon TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF

OXFORD— The discovery of a live shotgun shell in a student bathroom resulted in a three-and-half-hour lockdown today at Oxford High School and subsequent dismissal of students after an extensive search that turned up nothing more.

“What we have done is taken precautionary measures,” School Superintendent Ernest L. Boss said. “It’s something we have to do for the safety of all.”

Mr. Boss said the shotgun shell was found in a boys' bathroom on the second floor.

It was found about 8 a.m., 45 minutes after the school day began, by a student who brought it to the attention of a teacher. After the ammunition’s discovery, Principal David H. Grenier ordered the lockdown, about 8:15 a.m.

“We went into an immediate lockdown and we’re doing a search of lockers, students and cars,” Mr. Boss said as the incident was still unfolding. “We will be dismissed after we complete the search and the day will be made up.”

Mr. Boss said the teacher who was alerted of the shell, notified the office and they got in touch with the Oxford Police. Six Oxford police officers, as well as six Oxford firefighters, assisted in the lockdown and search.

According to Police Chief Michael J. Boss, there were no threats made or notes found after an extensive search was completed.

Chief Boss said the shell was resting on a bathroom sink.

“It was placed there,” Chief Boss said.

Oxford High senior Ben Lareau said students were stuck inside their first period class for a couple of hours and all the doors were locked. All seniors and juniors who drove to school were directed to the cafeteria, he said.

“They took us all down to the cafeteria because they had to search everyone’s car,” Mr. Lareau said. “So they let us go like five at a time back to the car. They searched the trunk, everything in the car. And we weren’t allowed back in the school after we were let out.”

A similar incident happened less than a year ago on Feb. 27. Officials locked down Oxford High School for more than five hours after a faculty member found a small number of shotgun rounds and .22-caliber rounds in a stairwell near a hallway.

While no weapons were found after a search of the school and all students’ vehicles, three local teens (two age 15 and one 16) were arrested in connection with that case.

A majority of the students were dismissed around 11:45 a.m. today. There are 540 students who attend the school on Main Street.

Can someone explain to me if a school fears that a student has a gun and ammo inside the school, why is locking all the kids inside of that school a good idea?

 

[Scrivener]

Those drunks from MacDonald's again?

 

[Admin]

Is searching cars in the school parking lot legal?

 

[drgrant]

DANGER! a lone shotgun shell! everyone hide, it's going to kill us
all! AIEEEEEE!!!!

Seriously, WTF? Don't these admins get it? Don't they get it that
these kids are -intentionally- f'ing with them at this
point? I realize "safety" but as Derek says, I can't see how
imprisoning a bunch of kids INSIDE the school is going to help
anyone, even if an attack -was- imminent.


-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Is searching cars in the school parking lot legal?

I've always thought about that, weren't there were some
court cases which essentially allowed school types to get away with
searches that would otherwise normally violate the 4th
amendment?

I think the schools are allowed to search lockers and things like
that (eg, bag searches on entry, etc)

I think New Jersey v. T.L.O. (1985) covers at least some of this
territory. Scriv probably knows about the precedents a hell of a
lot better than I do.

-Mike

 

[.40Smith&Wesson]

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It's SOP for schools to require students to sign a form consenting to warantless searches at any time in return for being permitted to park on the publicly owned school parking lot.

What is interesting about cars is that, unlike lockers, they are not "school property" and there is an excellent chance some of the students have reached the age of majority. It will take one kid who has reached 18, has the nerve to refuse a search and be subject to discipline for it, and the good fortune to get a lawyer from a rights advocacy group or have the private funding and willingness to spend it to have any chance of such a search being declared illegal.

 

[DickWanner]

It's SOP for schools to require students to sign a form consenting to warantless searches at any time in return for being permitted to park on the publicly owned school parking lot.

What is interesting about cars is that, unlike lockers, they are not "school property" and there is an excellent chance some of the students have reached the age of majority. It will take one kid who has reached 18, has the nerve to refuse a search and be subject to discipline for it, and the good fortune to get a lawyer from a rights advocacy group or have the private funding and willingness to spend it to have any chance of such a search being declared illegal.

I know when I drove to highschool we were suppose to register our cars and they probably had some small print on form that made you consent to searches. I believe I registered my first car but not my second car or my dad's truck that I frequently took. I'd have loved for them to try and search my car as I was one of those kids that would have fought it. What would have been really awesome would have been for them to find alcohol or drugs in a kids car who did not consent to search and then have him get away with it as the only evidence to the kid's crime wouldn't be admissable in court.

 

[Riverside]

DANGER! a lone shotgun shell! everyone hide, it's going to kill us
all! AIEEEEEE!!!!

Seriously, WTF? Don't these admins get it? Don't they get it that
these kids are -intentionally- f'ing with them at this
point? I realize "safety" but as Derek says, I can't see how
imprisoning a bunch of kids INSIDE the school is going to help
anyone, even if an attack -was- imminent.


-Mike

It may sound like a foolish drill, however, I don't think school Administrators have any leeway when a shotgun shell, cartridge, fake grenade or any other "weapon related" item is discovered on school property. They have to call 911 and the building goes into lock down. Attendance has to be re-taken. Neither students nor staff can enter or leave the room they get stuck in when the lock down is started. Windows are darkened and doors are locked. It doesn't matter if your bladder is leaking! I believe the DOE along with the AG's office issued guidlines that have to be adhered to.
For what it's worth, most kids don't like the lockdown, it is inconvenient for everyone.
Best Regards.

 

[kevin9]

http://telegram.com/article/20080122/ALERT01/973971929



Can someone explain to me if a school fears that a student has a gun and ammo inside the school, why is locking all the kids inside of that school a good idea?

Victim containment and isolation ("We'll give up all the kids in one classroom to save the others").

 

[gene]

This is the next big thing to get out of school for the day as stupid as it sounds. No wonder why they want camera's!

 

[Scrivener]

Victim containment and isolation ("We'll give up all the kids in one classroom to save the others").

Name ONE student saved by the SWAT team at Columbine.

Or Virginia Tech.

Heck, ANY of these incidents.

The gunman/men run wild, it's open season on everyone in the building until the police "contain" the situation and the shooter(s) kills himself.

Can anyone name an incident where a RESPONDING POLICE OFFICER (as opposed to people already on campus, using their own guns) actually took out one of these psychos? Inquiring minds want to know......

 

[Cherokee_Outlaw]

Back when I went to HS in the early 90s... If you walked through the parking lot.. you would see shotguns and rifles on the back of the guns racks in 8 out of 10 trucks.. After school everyone would head out to get a few hours of hunting in...

Not once.. did we ever have a scare with someone and a gun...

Very very Sad.... and its only going to get worst people...

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

The US has become a brainwashed nation of complete paranoid fruitcakes and schools have become worse than prisons with their psychotic, emotional over reactions.

 

[Erebus]

And the first time they don't lock down a school and something happens the media and the sheep will be calling for all their heads. Their hands are tied. If they don't completely and totally overreact they will be persecuted and perhaps prosecuted for it. It's ridiculous but it's the new "bomb scare" to leave a round hanging around where it will be found. No call to trace and if the kid makes sure he/she doesn't leave prints on it how will they ever catch them?

Think about it, a box of .22lr could keep you outta school for a couple years.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

And the first time they don't lock down a school and something happens the media and the sheep will be calling for all their heads. Their hands are tied. If they don't completely and totally overreact they will be persecuted and perhaps prosecuted for it. It's ridiculous but it's the new "bomb scare" to leave a round hanging around where it will be found. No call to trace and if the kid makes sure he/she doesn't leave prints on it how will they ever catch them?

Think about it, a box of .22lr could keep you outta school for a couple years.

No a .22 round or any small arms ammo isn't anything like a bomb and their over reactions as if it were are completely uncalled for.

People accept all kinds of risks in life without the slightest hesitation or afterthought. Giving an irresponsible teenager a license to drive a car and go out and place thousands of people at risk daily is FAR worse than a bullet found on the floor of a bathroom in a school.

Their hands are not tied. If they continue to give undue attention to trivial matters of this nature, the incidents will continue and even increase in frequency because the kids know they will get a rise out of them.....thats what they want.

The ones who do get caught are never really punished so there is no example or deterrent set for other kids to look at and follow. All the kids see is a day off from school or a break in their normal boring routine.

If kids had a place to go shoot on a regular basis, they wouldn't be so inclined to seek subversive activities. Their ignorance and that of their parents, law enforcement and school administrators are what fuels the fires of deviant behavior.

When something is prohibited, that increases the desire for many to seek it out. This country is going in the exact opposite direction that it should be.

 

[Admin]

Name ONE student saved by the SWAT team at Columbine.

Or Virginia Tech.

Heck, ANY of these incidents.

The gunman/men run wild, it's open season on everyone in the building until the police "contain" the situation and the shooter(s) kills himself.

Can anyone name an incident where a RESPONDING POLICE OFFICER (as opposed to people already on campus, using their own guns) actually took out one of these psychos? Inquiring minds want to know......

What does that have to do with anything? The issue is LOCKING down the school.

 

[kevin9]

What does that have to do with anything? The issue is LOCKING down the school.

If I read Scrivner correctly he is heaping further scorn on the idea of locking everyone down and sacrificing one group while waiting for the cavalry to rescue everyone else.

 

[Scrivener]

If I read Scrivner correctly he is heaping further scorn on the idea of locking everyone down and sacrificing one group while waiting for the cavalry to rescue everyone else.

Allowing the shooters to run amok while the SWAT team stands outside "securing the area" rescues NO-ONE.

Police saved NO lives at Columbine and NO lives at Virginia Tech. In each instance, the killer(s) had the full, unfettered access to the building and all in it.

At Columbine, a teacher used her cell phone to identify the number of shooters AND exactly where they were (outside her door) - all the big, bad-ass, Kevlar-clad, ninja-hooded warriors STILL remained outside.

Real easy retaking an building when all the shooters are already dead.

 

[Admin]

I'm lost. Keith, Kevin and I took exception to the school keeping the students prisoner while they searched for weapons and possibly a gunman.

 

[Scrivener]

I'm lost. Keith, Kevin and I took exception to the school keeping the students prisoner while they searched for weapons and possibly a gunman.

Two different issues, actually; a real, IMMEDIATE threat and the mere possible threat ostensibly posted by a cartridge, or even just a case, being found on the premises.

For the latter, it would seem an orderly exit from secured doors would:

1. Get the kids out of danger (IF there is any); and

2. Provide a means of reducing the suspects, as the police at the doors would be checking backpacks, etc., while another team checks lockers.

Does that make my point clearer?

 

[Admin]

Yes. A lot clearer.

IMO there is no reason to lock everyone inside when the school has no idea what is going on.

 

[tuna]

What law is actually being broken? As I read the law (269 - 10), you cannot have a firearm on school property - stupid as it is, that is the law - another day's argument. The law says nothing that I saw about ammunition, unless that is a school policy. With parental consent, a minor 15 - 18 may be issued an FID card. So if a 16 year old with an FID card has a shotgun shell, or brick of .22s or a "super deadly .50BMG round" without a firearm to put it in, they are legal.
What happens if a search of the cars turns up a deer slug left over from hunting season in a kid's car, and he has last years hunting license, this years hunting license and an FID card?

I know we're all talking about the schools over-reaction, but what is the reaction based on - besides stupidiy?

 

[Cherokee_Outlaw]

Yes. A lot clearer.

IMO there is no reason to lock everyone inside when the school has no idea what is going on.

seems to me that they cared more about who has ammo at school then the safety for the kids... lock them all in until they get searched... use it as an excuse to search for "other stuff" also

If they did this for drugs... it would be all over CNN... but since it was ammo.. they can use the "Safety" card and everyone goes on with life...

 

[drgrant]

And the first time they don't lock down a school and something happens the media and the sheep will be calling for all their heads. Their hands are tied. If they don't completely and totally overreact they will be persecuted and perhaps prosecuted for it.

Public officials frequently escape unscathed. I doubt it would reach
the point of "prosecution"- there really isn't any legal standard to
support that. Public service probably also provides a level of
immunity against civil suits, anyways, on the other side. The
city will probably get soaked, but that might happen anyways.

They also still could get "whined" at if they overreacted- what if
the lockdown policy directly resulted in students dying? Unless
they make all the rooms bullet-resistant (say from anything under
a .50 BMG) basically you're keeping the students in a
deathtrap. Even then the attacker could come up with some
very heinous crap to defeat that. Schools are far better off
providing better means of egress.

If ANY incident happened, of course parents would call for
heads to roll- and I don't think admins doing dumb crap like
lockdowns is really going to change any of that. The parents will
still hold the school district and likely whatever administration
exists wholly responsible for the incident- if it's not the
"overreaction" it will be something else- like the fact that the
attacker displayed "columbine syndrome" like symptoms or
affectations prior to the attack, and the administration did nothing
about it. Parents will still be saying "well, why didn't they
expel him/her?!?!?!" etc. The blame game will always get
played unless an asteroid hits the school or something- and even
then some parents will blame the people that built the place
because it couldn't withstand the impact of an asteroid.


-Mike

 

[jdubois]

What law is actually being broken?

I suppose one could argue that leaving a cartridge in a high school bathroom is effectively furnishing ammunition to a minor, which breaks MGL Ch 140 S 130.

 

[drgrant]

seems to me that they cared more about who has ammo at school then the safety for the kids... lock them all in until they get searched... use it as an excuse to search for "other stuff" also

If they did this for drugs... it would be all over CNN... but since it was ammo.. they can use the "Safety" card and everyone goes on with life...

Doesn't seem to matter what it's for anymore. Public school systems
routinely get away with whatever they want to- It's not
uncommon in some school systems for the cops to show up at a
local HS with a drug-sniffing dog, etc. As invasive as it is, it is
public property, so they basically can do nearly whatever they
want.

-Mike

 

[tuna]

I suppose one could argue that leaving a cartridge in a high school bathroom is effectively furnishing ammunition to a minor, which breaks MGL Ch 140 S 130.

OK, its a stretch, but it is a valid point.

I'm arguing this point at work with one of my co-workers, who is a part time cop. We've gotten to the point where we've looked up the OHS handbook (http://www.oxps.org/PDF FILES/OHSHANDBOOK07.pdf) and there is nothing there that says ammunition can't be brought in - only firearms (loaded or unloaded). And it does not show where vehicles are subject to search, either, it only mentions lockers.

 

[KMaurer]

I too attended one of those high schools where a lot of the cars and trucks in the lot had rifles or shotguns in them. Some who had convertibles (or broken door locks) would even bring them in and store them in our lockers. No big deal, considering the rifles stored in the office for the school rifle team.

Further demonstrating the triumph of common sense over PC orthodoxy in those times, I remember sitting on class one day when one of the vice principals walked in and quietly started looking through the storage cabinets in the rear of the room. When enough people stared looking at him he responded something like "No problem. Somebody phoned a bomb threat; we figure it was somebody hoping to get out of a test, but we've got to at least take a look. If we shut down the school we'd start getting a couple of dozen of these every day."

Ken

 

[Cherokee_Outlaw]

I too attended one of those high schools where a lot of the cars and trucks in the lot had rifles or shotguns in them. Some who had convertibles (or broken door locks) would even bring them in and store them in our lockers. No big deal, considering the rifles stored in the office for the school rifle team.

Further demonstrating the triumph of common sense over PC orthodoxy in those times, I remember sitting on class one day when one of the vice principals walked in and quietly started looking through the storage cabinets in the rear of the room. When enough people stared looking at him he responded something like "No problem. Somebody phoned a bomb threat; we figure it was somebody hoping to get out of a test, but we've got to at least take a look. If we shut down the school we'd start getting a couple of dozen of these every day."

Ken

Those was the days!!! If you talked back to the teacher... or push a kid.. you had a big ole paddle on your rear out in the hall way so everyone can hear the "pop".. but what was even worst... [sad2] going home to confront mom first..... then.... [sad2] DAD!!!

Looking back.. before they changed the spanking rules.. schools seemed to be a lot safer... hmmm I wonder......