Another restraining order ?

Rob Boudrie said:
The trick is to keep the guns out of the Dowd extortion warehouse, and create a sufficiently documentable paper trail so he can convince the court and police he has really divested himself of all guns so that he will retain a chance of getting his LTC back when the ordeal is over.

And remember, for the purpose of transfer and the 4 gun per calender year limit, stripped frames are not firearms under MGL.
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So he could technically transfer all his stripped frames to one buddy via FA-10 and give all the extra parts to another buddy and be good to go?

Is he good friends with any gun shop owners who'll take possession of his collection for a relatively small fee and then transfer them back to him when the ordeal's over.
 
This happened to a friend of mine very recently. He's still going through it. When she got the restraining order, the police came to his house and took all his guns and his license to carry. I was not allowed to keep his guns for him. They had to be picked up at the police station by a licensed dealer. He's a retired police officer but that seemed to hurt rather than help.
 
transfer them out of the friends name, take physical possession of them

If the guy just hides them in NH he is looking at Lautenburg violations, and each component of a bullet is 5 years IIRC and a gun is 15, federal mandatory time.

He better be able to prove they are gone if the SHTF or they will hold him in lockup until some clerk can verify with 1010 comm ave or wherever you guys send the forms these days that they were transferred. Don't ask me how I know this.
 
Glockaholic said:
He better be able to prove they are gone if the SHTF or they will hold him in lockup until some clerk can verify with 1010 comm ave or wherever you guys send the forms these days that they were transferred. Don't ask me how I know this.
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Uhh, this makes no sense at all. If you transfer the guns, the state has no record of them ever being transferred "out" of your name, the way that the CHSB system works. For example, say I have 50 guns. I sell them all to a gun store. Nothing happens in the state computer that records or shows this transaction, despite the fact that I don't have "ownership title" to those guns anymore. Some of them may eventually appear associated to someone else's name, if the gun store sells them to an MA resident, but that's about as close as you're gonna get.

What really can they hold you on? Failure to provide information you don't have? [thinking]

-Mike
 
Do you know anyone out of state, like a FREE state? Get them in the hands of a Buddie, or family, out of state, as long as it's a free state you can claim you "use" them there and therefore keep them there. They are not hiding, they are safe and sound, in a FREE state!

You do not have to own a gun to have possession of it.
 
Kicker96FS said:
Do you know anyone out of state, like a FREE state? Get them in the hands of a Buddie, or family, out of state, as long as it's a free state you can claim you "use" them there and therefore keep them there. They are not hiding, they are safe and sound, in a FREE state!

You do not have to own a gun to have possession of it.
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If you have an active DV RO against you, you're not even allowed to touch a firearm, basically, due to the lautenberg crap. (Anyone with an active DV RO against them, is at least, temporarily, a prohibited person.) Now, things get murky, of course, if you give your guns to a friend, and only -they- have access to them, and you have no access. (eg, they lock them in a safe which you do not know the combination to).

This is definitely a "talk to a competent firearms lawyer to see what your options are" kind of thing.

-Mike
 
Kicker96FS said:
Do you know anyone out of state, like a FREE state? Get them in the hands of a Buddie, or family, out of state, as long as it's a free state you can claim you "use" them there and therefore keep them there. They are not hiding, they are safe and sound, in a FREE state!

You do not have to own a gun to have possession of it.
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really bad advice

Unless it is for "sporting purposes" you can't loan a handgun across a state line.

The person who had the RO dumped on them is still the legal owner of the gun, and I wouldn't want to be the test case, especially when the RO says you must turn over everything firearms related to the cops. A RO does not end at the state line, moving stuff over a state line to do an end run around a RO is not advisable in the least, IANAL.

The minute you have been served with a RO, your second amendment rights vanish, and you are put in the same category of a felon with regards to owning or possessing a firearm, or ammo, or component, and that goes right down to a spent shell casing you might have neglected to take out of the trunk of your car.

The difference between being the subject of an RO and a convicted felon is the felon had the chance to plead his case to a jury of his peers and defend himself in a court of law. Someone who has a RO slapped on them has nothing but the unsubstantiated allegation of someone with an axe to grind to basically convict them without a trial by a jury of their peers.
 
Oh and by the way, a 208 order holds the same water as a 209 order, so in a divorce proceeding make sure your soon to be Ex's lawyer doesn't slide one of those in the divorce decree for the Judge to sign.
 
Hey guys,

Just got off the phone with my buddy. He ended up biting the bullet and hiring some new big money lawyer who has a ton experience with ROs. Some firm in Hingham I guess. He's going to transfer a few of the more expensive firearms to his Dad, but the lawyer apparently thinks he might do OK. I guess his ex came to his house today and starting take stuff, he kept his cool and called the cops. She fled the scene before the cops arrived, but an incident report was filed.

I will keep the thread updated. There will probably be some big developments next week.

In the meantime, I need to take my own dear wife out to dinner to keep her on my good side [wink]
 
drgrant said:
Uhh, this makes no sense at all. If you transfer the guns, the state has no record of them ever being transferred "out" of your name, the way that the CHSB system works. For example, say I have 50 guns. I sell them all to a gun store. Nothing happens in the state computer that records or shows this transaction, despite the fact that I don't have "ownership title" to those guns anymore. Some of them may eventually appear associated to someone else's name, if the gun store sells them to an MA resident, but that's about as close as you're gonna get.

What really can they hold you on? Failure to provide information you don't have? [thinking]

-Mike
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I can tell you that they can and will hold you at the local courthouse if you are brought in on anything RO related. This can be after sitting in the local GrayBar Hotel since Friday night

I can tell you that the soon to be Ex will say you still have guns, and you can say you don't, and the victim advocate and her friends will pipe up and say prove it. At that point you either have to cough up a name that they will go check out, or the Judge will agree to have you sit in the cell downstairs some clerk tries to verify the blue cards were filed, and if they can't get the person who has the guns you formerly owned on the phone, or someone from 1010 to find the records, you are going to go spend the night on the 21st floor of the Middlesex Hotel in Cambridge. I assure you this was a real life situation and a very unpleasant one. Luckily the time spent cooling off downstairs was only a couple of hours.
 
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About five years ago I had to take out a CHINS on my 16 year old son who was out of control.

That night there was a town detective knocking on my door telling me I had to turn over my firearms.

I literally begged the guy to let me move them. He said OK, but I only had 24 hours. I moved them the next morning into a storage shed and called him to tell him. No problem at all. I had no idea at the time that was coming.
 
Document EVERYTHING. If you turn the guns over to someone else, be sure you do so in absolute compliance with the law (no, you cannot turn them over to someone else once you are ordered to surrender them - that technique only works if you see it coming). Be sure the person you turn the guns over to is a stand up individual not involved in the current situation who can truthfully convince the court that you will not get any manner of access to the guns unless and until your LTC is restored.

If the court sees that you worked to get the guns out of the house on your own, and you aren't playing games, it *may* consider this a responsible action. If they THINK you are playing games it doesn't matter what the court can prove as the only person who has to be convinced in the judge.
 
I took it as there was no RO yet, if they are not at home when the RO is written up, what can they do?



drgrant said:
If you have an active DV RO against you, you're not even allowed to touch a firearm, basically, due to the lautenberg crap. (Anyone with an active DV RO against them, is at least, temporarily, a prohibited person.) Now, things get murky, of course, if you give your guns to a friend, and only -they- have access to them, and you have no access. (eg, they lock them in a safe which you do not know the combination to).

This is definitely a "talk to a competent firearms lawyer to see what your options are" kind of thing.

-Mike
Click to expand...
 
Your friend will more than likely be hearing from the IA regarding his LTC. The dept. will either confiscate the LTC from him along with the guns ( if he still has them) or revoke his LTC, until the matter is over. He may never get his LTC back, depending of course on the IA.

A friend of mine lost his for 2 years and finally got it back just a couple of months ago.
He went through hell with this dumb ass broad and the locals as well as the MSP.
He spent a ton of money too. She out and out lied a couple of times in court.
But then again according to a magistrate on the SS "this is court everyone lies".

He may want to think about changing the locks on his house if the soon to be x is rummaging through the house and also empty all the bank accounts before she does.

Just my $.02
 
If she is on the deed to the house she can't be locked out of it, unless there is an RO against her.

If there is an RO issued against him, chances are he'll be on the outside looking in, and when that happens the PD will escort you to the house and you have 15 minutes to grab what she will allow you to take and then you are done.

A RO against him will also have a provision that he can not adversely effect her finances, meaning no raiding of bank accounts after the RO is issued. BTW this is another reason never to have your pay direct deposited into a joint account! It takes a couple of weeks to stop direct deposit and you'll need the money for a new place to live, unless you have a comfy car or friends with understanding wifes/gf's, or Mom & Dad will take you back.

Then there are joint credit cards, cars, etc etc etc that add to the fun
 
Glockaholic said:
If she is on the deed to the house she can't be locked out of it, unless there is an RO against her.

If there is an RO issued against him, chances are he'll be on the outside looking in, and when that happens the PD will escort you to the house and you have 15 minutes to grab what she will allow you to take and then you are done.

A RO against him will also have a provision that he can not adversely effect her finances, meaning no raiding of bank accounts after the RO is issued. BTW this is another reason never to have your pay direct deposited into a joint account! It takes a couple of weeks to stop direct deposit and you'll need the money for a new place to live, unless you have a comfy car or friends with understanding wifes/gf's, or Mom & Dad will take you back.

Then there are joint credit cards, cars, etc etc etc that add to the fun
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In this case, my buddy was living with wife in an apartment. When he found out that she was cheating on him, she left. She has a good job and makes big money. Apparently, she already has a nice place in the city.

There is still no RO (unless the poor is bastard is being taken away right now). It just seems inevitable. It just sucks because this guy is kinda of a wimp - his wife has been cheating on for a while. I worked with him when we were both trauma nurses - complete stand up guy.
 
A good friend once told me, before getting serious with any woman, find out if she has ever filed an RO against someone!!!!! Of course there are those that are filed for legitimate reasons, but on average 2/3rds are filed during divorce!!!!!!

Divorce attorneys BLOW!!!![frown][frown]
 
There are no provisions for him not to raid the bank accounts unless a judge specifically puts that into the RO.

Also I believe that if she has vacated the home/apartment for more than 24 or 48 hours then it is considered that she abondoned him and he can keep her out.

Nurses and cops have one of the highest divorce rates of any occupations.
 
Mass-diver said:
Hey guys,

Just got off the phone with my buddy. He ended up biting the bullet and hiring some new big money lawyer who has a ton experience with ROs. Some firm in Hingham I guess. He's going to transfer a few of the more expensive firearms to his Dad, but the lawyer apparently thinks he might do OK. I guess his ex came to his house today and starting take stuff, he kept his cool and called the cops. She fled the scene before the cops arrived, but an incident report was filed.

I will keep the thread updated. There will probably be some big developments next week.

In the meantime, I need to take my own dear wife out to dinner to keep her on my good side [wink]
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Your friend is an idiot if he listens to this lawyer. Yeah, in the long run the guy will be fine. But he needs to deal with the short term. He really should get the guns and ammo out of the house and into other peoples hands.
 
I *HAVE NOT* read all the comments, so take this with a grain....

I've been through one of these and it's emotionally and financially debilitating. Sign your guns over to a friend, NOW! DO NOT MAKE ANY CONTACT WITH HER! PERIOD! Get an excellent lawyer. Have them file for separation immediately and freeze everything. Now take a breathe and sit down with your lawyer and get a strategy of how your going to attack this. If you don't do this you are SCREWED!
 
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My ex sister in law tried to do the same thing to my Brother a couple years ago at the early stages of their divorce. It was not long before the judge saw that there was no merit to her complaint and the restraining order was lifted. Tell your buddy to take the high road and stay cool. I know that's easier said than done but if his soon to be ex is given enough rope, she will hang herself in court. As a side note, in MA., the judge assigned to your buddie's case will be the same one through the entire divorce proceeding. This will allow an opportunity for your buddy to make a good impression and his estranged wife to make herself look like an ass. It worked for my Brother and there were three children involved plus some valuable property and assets and yes it was in MA. Also, the circumstances were similar ie., she was screwing around on him
 
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was not allowed to keep his guns for him. They had to be picked up at the police station by a licensed dealer.
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Guns confiscated as a result of a 209A can be turned over only to a licensed dealer. guns confiscated for another reason (loss of an LTC for suitability), but not evidence in any criminal proceeding, can be turned over to any LTC holder.
 
S&WM&P9 said:
My ex sister in law tried to do the same thing to my Brother a couple years ago at the early stages of their divorce. It was not long before the judge saw that there was no merit to her complaint and the restraining order was lifted. Tell your buddy to take the high road and stay cool. I know that's easier said than done but if his soon to be ex is given enough rope, she will hang herself in court. As a side note, in MA., the judge assigned to your buddie's case will be the same one through the entire divorce proceeding. This will allow an opportunity for your buddy to make a good impression and his estranged wife to make herself look like an ass. It worked for my Brother and there were three children involved plus some valuable property and assets and yes it was in MA. Also, the circumstances were similar ie., she was screwing around on him
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Go ahead and have people believe that their fortunes will be the same.... ALL JUDGES HAVE THEIR OWN OPINIONS AND AGENDA. Just because one person is successful in convincing a judge that they are not a threat, does not mean that another judge would feel the same way....

Most judges side with women, ESPECIALLY in the Peoples' Republic
 
Glockaholic said:
I can tell you that they can and will hold you at the local courthouse if you are brought in on anything RO related. This can be after sitting in the local GrayBar Hotel since Friday night

I can tell you that the soon to be Ex will say you still have guns, and you can say you don't, and the victim advocate and her friends will pipe up and say prove it. At that point you either have to cough up a name that they will go check out, or the Judge will agree to have you sit in the cell downstairs some clerk tries to verify the blue cards were filed, and if they can't get the person who has the guns you formerly owned on the phone, or someone from 1010 to find the records, you are going to go spend the night on the 21st floor of the Middlesex Hotel in Cambridge. I assure you this was a real life situation and a very unpleasant one. Luckily the time spent cooling off downstairs was only a couple of hours.
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I'm still mystified as to what they can hold someone on. So you're telling me they can keep you in jail forever if you cannot produce disposition records- meanwhile, not charging you with an actual crime of any kind for this? It would seem to me they can only hold someone a limited amount of time without charging them of a crime.

-Mike
 
Mass-diver said:
Hey guys,

Just got off the phone with my buddy. He ended up biting the bullet and hiring some new big money lawyer who has a ton experience with ROs. Some firm in Hingham I guess. He's going to transfer a few of the more expensive firearms to his Dad, but the lawyer apparently thinks he might do OK. I guess his ex came to his house today and starting take stuff, he kept his cool and called the cops. She fled the scene before the cops arrived, but an incident report was filed.

I will keep the thread updated. There will probably be some big developments next week.

In the meantime, I need to take my own dear wife out to dinner to keep her on my good side [wink]
Click to expand...

One of the few times you can put yourself in hawk up to your eyeballs and have it be worth it is in a messy divorce. Your friend did the smart thing.
 
when i went through my divorce over 30 yrs ago my ex did not push the ro issue so i did not have to worry about my guns that was the good news the bad news the divorce cost me close to 9k....but it was worth it as i fought and won custody rights of my three kids. the cost was definitely worth it.
 

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