Another restraining order ?

gene said:
One piece of advice!

Fight the 209A if it's taken to the very last breath regardless of cost. Get a good lawyer and make sure the lawyer request the judge to remove the record from the CORI at the same time or it stays there forever!
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The guy has a high priced lawyer and they think there are OK in terms of dodging the 209A since it's been a long time with no contact (under a voluntary no contact agreement). It's more of a matter of using the allegation of a threat to make the poor guy look like an a**hole in trial and basically assassinate his character.
 
advice to the rest of you young'ns, don't marry a lawyer.
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I missed where the mention was made that the estranged wife is a lawyer, but I have seen several comments like the above, that imply that she is.

The original post said

However, she is being super aggressive at the early stages. ... It seems like he has decent lawyer, but she's a divorce lawyer and doesn't really seem to know/care about the issue of ROs and guns.
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Could it be a mis-reading of the second sentence? I take the "she's a divorce lawyer" to refer to his lawyer. Adding the word "only" to that would have made it more clear, but the misunderstanding might also be attributed to the assumption that lawyers are men.
 
Mass-diver said:
UPDATE: my buddy got the word yesterday that the wife is threatening to accuse him of threatening to kill her with a gun if he doesn't roll over in the divorce and give her what she wants (basically all their money).

His lawyer said that it way too far out (they have not had any contact in months) for a restraining order and the it is just a bargaining technique. Apparently, the problem is that while there is no proof that this ever happened, many judges think that anyone that would own guns is not in his right mind. :(
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She's a *****Censored*****
 
jcr said:
Could it be a mis-reading of the second sentence? I take the "she's a divorce lawyer" to refer to his lawyer. Adding the word "only" to that would have made it more clear, but the misunderstanding might also be attributed to the assumption that lawyers are men.
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Nope, sorry I mistyped that, his soon to ex is not a lawyer.

Can't tell how bad I feel for they guy. He's a really a great guy, when I worked with him doing trauma nursing, he always took great of his patients and he was one of those guys that worshiped his wife. When we were out at bars (without our wives) he would never even give another girl a second look. Then he finds out his wife has been cheating on him for months and now this BS with the guns. Poor bastard [sad]

But, again when it comes that you own firearms, lots of people ask "what type of a person would own guns." As his lawyer told him, just the fact that he admits to owning firearms makes him look really bad.
 
Wow what a boatload of suck. Hopefully when all is said and done he'll still have his license and will find a nice girl who already owns guns and this kind of BS won't be an issue.
 
terraformer said:
In your mind if you like. I self censored but I am angry as hell at situations like this. This guy is a helpless passenger while someone steals from him using the power of the government.
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It happens WAY too often.

I cannot tell you how many friends of mine who are genuinely good people ended up getting railroaded over $$$
 
Wait...if they agreed to have zero contact, then how did his wife put out this blackmail crap? Did she call him, send him a letter, go through his lawyer with this threat? I would think that this kind of extortion is illegal and if there is any way to prove what she said (letter, e-mail, etc.) then that should put the nails in her coffin, no?

Mass-diver said:
UPDATE: my buddy got the word yesterday that the wife is threatening to accuse him of threatening to kill her with a gun if he doesn't roll over in the divorce and give her what she wants (basically all their money).
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Mattitude said:
Wait...if they agreed to have zero contact, then how did his wife put out this blackmail crap? Did she call him, send him a letter, go through his lawyer with this threat? I would think that this kind of extortion is illegal and if there is any way to prove what she said (letter, e-mail, etc.) then that should put the nails in her coffin, no?
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Extortion isn't illegal when a lawyer does it...
 
he doesn't have to make contact with her, all she has to do is say
" I am afraid of Mr X. He has a license to carry in Massachusetts and owns guns. He argued with me and threatened me in the past, and I feel he is capable of harming me now. I have gotten a number of hang up phone calls and my car has been scratched. I fear he might do something to me."

And with that, he is FUBARED.
 
Mattitude said:
Wait...if they agreed to have zero contact, then how did his wife put out this blackmail crap? Did she call him, send him a letter, go through his lawyer with this threat? I would think that this kind of extortion is illegal and if there is any way to prove what she said (letter, e-mail, etc.) then that should put the nails in her coffin, no?
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Her lawyer told his lawyer. His lawyer called it a "shot across the bow" i.e. give us what we want or she is going to claim that he threatened with a gun.

Again, his lawyer thinks he's in the clear for a 209A - but she is going to use this to smear him in public and win sympathy from a judge :(

I called him tonight and he is barely keeping it together. This is a guy that has really dedicated his life to helping people. To see him get caught up in this complete BS is really sad.
 
Glockaholic said:
he doesn't have to make contact with her, all she has to do is say
" I am afraid of Mr X. He has a license to carry in Massachusetts and owns guns. He argued with me and threatened me in the past, and I feel he is capable of harming me now. I have gotten a number of hang up phone calls and my car has been scratched. I fear he might do something to me."

And with that, he is FUBARED.
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Exactly!

Not really much the poor guy can do except roll over and play dead. I think his only hope is that he went all out on lawyer and really (apparently) has some hot shoot attorney. But, although I haven't told him that I think this, it looks like his going to pretty much loose everything, when she was the one cheating on him. Very depressing stuff.

I guess there is a big meeting next week - so I think I'll update this thread then. I think it's important for people to be aware that this sh*it goes on. In the meantime I need buy my wife some new jewelery [wink]
 
Wouldn't that be admissible that her lawyer said that either pay up or she will say that he threatened to kill her? Are their joint assets frozen? If not, would it be beneficial to unload them (to a friend or even legitimately) before they go up on the block...or more like to her side? I've heard of wives selling their husbands collections during divorces out of vengance and getting away with it because it's community property. Maybe he can sell her favorite china or whatever for like 5 bucks.
 
As soon as the divorce was filled there is an automatic restraining order in place on all the joint assets - so he can't touch any of them apparently.

I assume the threat by the lawyer was made in "lawyer speak" so that her lawyer covered her ass?

The poor guy is really f'd
 
Glockaholic said:
he doesn't have to make contact with her, all she has to do is say
" I am afraid of Mr X. He has a license to carry in Massachusetts and owns guns. He argued with me and threatened me in the past, and I feel he is capable of harming me now. I have gotten a number of hang up phone calls and my car has been scratched. I fear he might do something to me."

And with that, he is FUBARED.
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Bullshit. I'd love to see the soon to be ex-bitch-wife pull that kind of crap. All they have to do is subpoena her phone records. You guys ever hear of CALLER ID? Not to mention they get HIS records, too - that wife will have serious egg on her face. Isn't that considered filing a false police report?
 
dwarven1 said:
Bullshit. I'd love to see the soon to be ex-bitch-wife pull that kind of crap. All they have to do is subpoena her phone records. You guys ever hear of CALLER ID? Not to mention they get HIS records, too - that wife will have serious egg on her face. Isn't that considered filing a false police report?
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His example is actually pretty good, if you notice it never states that the 209recipient is actually making the calls it merely states that there have been arguments in the past and that she feels that there will be an escalation in the future. The calls and other items are non-issues for the issuance.

Separately, not many judges are willing to risk something occurring when they had the opportunity. Chances are high that without above average legal representation, the 209 will occur, no one wants to look soft on the issue...even though they look soft in other areas. Its a 3rd rail.
 
dwarven1 said:
Bullshit. I'd love to see the soon to be ex-bitch-wife pull that kind of crap. All they have to do is subpoena her phone records. You guys ever hear of CALLER ID? Not to mention they get HIS records, too - that wife will have serious egg on her face. Isn't that considered filing a false police report?
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I doubt they ever would. Something as minor as a 209A (to the court) isn't worth the subpoena. All she does is fill out a form (or act scared after hours and have a LEO call a judge at 3 a.m. for an "emergency order") and the judge signs it with a pen.

Nobody wants to be the bad DA who prosecutes women who apply for restraining orders.

It's a total crock. The cards are stacked against the guy, the best you can hope for is for it to not go that bad.

This is why we need at a minimum 209A reform in Mass., but ideally they'd just do away with them altogether, since all it does is show that someone expressed a desire to not be contacted, which can be accomplished through a police report just as easily.
 
Update: my buddy go his divorce on Thursday. To review, no kids, no house, wife was cheating, then made up some threats. End result, my buddy dropped some serious cash on an attorney - but no restraining no order, no loss of LTC. The ex's lawyer was threatening him right up to the end, but he made it out OK.

Apparently what saved him was two things 1.) no evidence of any violence/threats during the marriage 2.) his lawyer immediatly filled for a "no contact order." Since he avoided any contact with the ex, her attorney was faced with a tough sell for a restraining order since the no contact order was in place and there was no evidence of contact.

All in all he is lucky bastard. Take home message: be careful who you marry, be nice to your wives, and if you find yourself in a bad place, don't be cheap higher a good lawyer asap. I think this case is the exception to the rule in MA
 
Mass-diver said:
Hi Guys,

A buddy of mine is going through a messy divorce. He's a super nice guy, never even raised his voice to his wife. She was cheating on him for a long time and when he found out, she hit the road.

They don't have kids or own a home. However, she is being super aggressive at the early stages. He called me last night freaking out that she is going to get a restraining order and he's going to lose his guns and his carry permit. It seems like he has decent lawyer, but she's a divorce lawyer and doesn't really seem to know/care about the issue of ROs and guns.

Any words of wisdom? Is he just plain screwed?
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Lesson: Don't marry a divorce attorney. [wink]
 
Ricky said:
>They don't have any kids together
>and they don't own a home together

He should, avoid ever calling her, avoid going to places shes known to be
Keep track and log all calls she makes to him, prove she's the one stalking or harassing
She has a license to practice law right ? if she jeopardizes his LTC, remember theres the Mass Bar.
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I agree, all contact should be done via the Atty's.
 
jcohen said:
An RO is not the end of the world. As long as you do not violate it. And it has become almost the norm for any guy going through a heated divorce even if he has no history of violence. Judges rarely deny them. When an RO is over it is possible to get your guns back.
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This is my issue...you'll know a long time in advance before getting a felony conviction, and have ample opportunity to fight it, appeal it, and avoiding committing it in the first place. [grin] Any crazy female can get a 209A 24/7/365 because she feels scared, when you're served they'll take your licenses & guns, and if you're lucky you'll get a hearing before the Village Vault whacks you with too many storage fees.

At least with criminal charges there's a burden of proof.
 
There is definitely something wrong with a legal process where someone can make an accusation with no proof and it can impact your life so much. Especially if you can prove that such claims were false.....guess what?....they still won't remove it from your record. Isn't that just grand?
 
When an RO is over it is possible to get your guns back.
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Except for Wakefield gun owners, as the chief in that town has a policy that no LTC shall ever be issued to a person who has ever been subject to a judge issued restraining order. The chief's logic is that issuance of an RO is a finding that the individual poses a threat of violence, and expiration of the order does not change the fact that the applicant has a history of being found to be violent threat.

The was fought once and the applicant (who had top fight legal counsel in the form of the team of Tierny and Forrest, two highly respect gun lawyers whose heyday pre-dates the internet). The district and appellate courts upheld the chief's policy (Howard v. Wakefied, 59 Mass. App. Ct. 901 (2003) )

I would almost rather be charged with a felony than fight an RO. With a felony charge, the state has to prove I am guilty.
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Not always. They can also make sure they raise a credible threat of jail time, run up a few tens of $K in your legal fees, and then offer you the tough choice by way of a plea deal that makes you a prohibited person for life but avoids prison, or refresh your counsel's retainer and roll the dice with your freedom. Everyone talks tough about fighting for what is right when they are not the one charged, or early in the process before they have been ground down by the system. The reality of the situation is no doubt something that cannot be fully appreciated by someone who has not experienced it. Fortunately, I have no experience in this area.

The system is theoretically about "justice", but the system is very reluctant to walk away without a chunk of flesh in all but the most extreme cases of obvious innocence.
 
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