I'm wondering what kinds of broad-spectrum antibiotics have the longest realistic shelf life, and I'm also wondering about how to go about getting a hold of a large supply. Has anyone here had any luck in persuading a doctor to write a prescription for the purpose of long term storage for a future emergency? I realize the doc would be sticking their neck out, legally speaking, so it would probably be unlikely unless they're family or close friends. Is there any other legal means to stock up on antibiotics? Just curious what others on this board think. Thanks!
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Antibiotics
- Thread starter longnow
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mexico.
Chris
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My doctor has never had a problem prescribing a Z-pac to keep on-hand. Compared to a more generic anti-biotic, this is expensive and it's only one use (patient needs to take all the medication as indicated)
Long time storage and bulk supply would be difficult locally. However, I've been told that some of the 'doctors' at the internet order sites are more lenient. Have not tried.
Then again, your doctor might be more open to such things. Who knows. If you come to them with a complete plan, explain that you are building the FEMA recommended supply and want to add a few regiments of common anti-biotics, you might find them open to the idea.
Might want to inquire about some narcotics too. A few (say 6-10) oxycodone without the acetaminophen for emergency use might be approved. (why no acetaminophen? Because you would try 'normal' pain killers first and only use the narcotic if required. In that case, you don't want to overdose on the acetaminophen.)
Whatever you request, make sure you know how to use it. Getting a copy of the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR), Complete Guide to Prescription & Non-prescription Drugs is not a bad idea.
Generic anti-biotics to consider:
Cephalexin 500mg Tabs (GENERIC, Keflex)
Erythromycin 500mg Tabs (for those allergic to Penicillin or Cephalexin)
modern anti-biotic (fewer pills, faster treatment, but expensive
Ciprofloxacin 500mg Tabs
Zithromax 250mg Capsules (the Z-pac)
Topical adrenocortico-steroid (like Hydrocortisone, but much more effective.):
Triamcinolone cream or ointment .1% or .5% (Aristicort, Kenalog)
Narcotic based pain relief:
Hydrocodone Bitartrate 5 mg and Acetaminophen 500 mg Tabs (Vicodin)
Hydrocodone Bitartrate 7.5 mg and Acetaminophen 750 mg Tabs (Vicodin Extra Strength)
Oxycodone Hydrochloride 5 mg and Acetaminophen 325 mg Tabs (Percocet)
Ask about versions without the Acetaminophen so you can administer that regiment on your own to avoid an overdose.
Another handy thing to have for severe allergic reactions is an Epi-Pen. The downside of this device is that it is a one shot, expensive, and lasts only about a year. However, to counter anaphylactic shock, there is little else that is as effective. Keep in mind that this has some very serious potential life threatening side effects. It is only to be used if a person is likely to die if not used.
For insect sings that just plain hurt, I recommend these: Sawyer "Extractor" and George Townsend & Co.'s "Martin's BurnAway Plus. Remarkably effective. The extractor is basically a very strong spring loaded suction pump that attempts to draw out insect venom. The burn cream works on all kinds of skin irritations from sunburn to stings.
DISCLAIMER:
NO MEDICATION IS "SAFE". Use should be limited to need and it is better to be slightly uncomfortable than risk more serious medical complications. Again, KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. First rule is always always always - Do no harm.
Long time storage and bulk supply would be difficult locally. However, I've been told that some of the 'doctors' at the internet order sites are more lenient. Have not tried.
Then again, your doctor might be more open to such things. Who knows. If you come to them with a complete plan, explain that you are building the FEMA recommended supply and want to add a few regiments of common anti-biotics, you might find them open to the idea.
Might want to inquire about some narcotics too. A few (say 6-10) oxycodone without the acetaminophen for emergency use might be approved. (why no acetaminophen? Because you would try 'normal' pain killers first and only use the narcotic if required. In that case, you don't want to overdose on the acetaminophen.)
Whatever you request, make sure you know how to use it. Getting a copy of the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR), Complete Guide to Prescription & Non-prescription Drugs is not a bad idea.
Generic anti-biotics to consider:
Cephalexin 500mg Tabs (GENERIC, Keflex)
Erythromycin 500mg Tabs (for those allergic to Penicillin or Cephalexin)
modern anti-biotic (fewer pills, faster treatment, but expensive
Ciprofloxacin 500mg Tabs
Zithromax 250mg Capsules (the Z-pac)
Topical adrenocortico-steroid (like Hydrocortisone, but much more effective.):
Triamcinolone cream or ointment .1% or .5% (Aristicort, Kenalog)
Narcotic based pain relief:
Hydrocodone Bitartrate 5 mg and Acetaminophen 500 mg Tabs (Vicodin)
Hydrocodone Bitartrate 7.5 mg and Acetaminophen 750 mg Tabs (Vicodin Extra Strength)
Oxycodone Hydrochloride 5 mg and Acetaminophen 325 mg Tabs (Percocet)
Ask about versions without the Acetaminophen so you can administer that regiment on your own to avoid an overdose.
Another handy thing to have for severe allergic reactions is an Epi-Pen. The downside of this device is that it is a one shot, expensive, and lasts only about a year. However, to counter anaphylactic shock, there is little else that is as effective. Keep in mind that this has some very serious potential life threatening side effects. It is only to be used if a person is likely to die if not used.
For insect sings that just plain hurt, I recommend these: Sawyer "Extractor" and George Townsend & Co.'s "Martin's BurnAway Plus. Remarkably effective. The extractor is basically a very strong spring loaded suction pump that attempts to draw out insect venom. The burn cream works on all kinds of skin irritations from sunburn to stings.
DISCLAIMER:
NO MEDICATION IS "SAFE". Use should be limited to need and it is better to be slightly uncomfortable than risk more serious medical complications. Again, KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. First rule is always always always - Do no harm.
Hiltonizer
Banned
Olive leaf extract capsules are a good 'alternative' antibiotic.
Not as good as having the real deal, but it works better than nothing. It's been doing a great job of nipping in the butt any signs of a sinus infection or sore throat I may get.
Not as good as having the real deal, but it works better than nothing. It's been doing a great job of nipping in the butt any signs of a sinus infection or sore throat I may get.
Medicines ordered online and shipped from other countries often get intercepted at customs. You might have some explaining to do if they decide to actually pursue the issue instead of just toss them in the trash. Plus, they are rather expensive.
An interesting fact is that the same factories that produce antibiotics for humans also produce antibiotics for pets. They go through the same machinery but just have a different label slapped on the bottle. Amoxicillin and various tetracyclines are commonly available for pets only. Fish antibiotics are particularly interesting because they come in 250mg and 500mg capsules even though fish can't swallow pills -- you break open the capsule and dump the antibiotic into their tank.
Of course those are for pets only. But when TSHTF, it is important that you have enough antibiotics for your pets to hold them through until society recovers. I love my cats and have prepped better for them than I have myself.
I thought that was only with a prescription.
W
wolf223
probably not a good idea IMO
i would stick to general over-the-counter stuff and vitamins.
it would be easier to practice good hygene and take measures to avoid getting sick vs. having a make-shift pharmacy... -unless you have someone with a medecine background as part of you SHTF team.
even simple medicines have contra-indications, might make things actually worse by taking the wrong pill for the wrong condition
i would stick to general over-the-counter stuff and vitamins.
it would be easier to practice good hygene and take measures to avoid getting sick vs. having a make-shift pharmacy... -unless you have someone with a medecine background as part of you SHTF team.
even simple medicines have contra-indications, might make things actually worse by taking the wrong pill for the wrong condition
And you've never been stopped for printing????
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It's obviously not that noticeable.
So not nice.
back to the original question- is there any good online information source about the quality of fish antibiotics for human usage? The only things I've found are just joe schmoes like us yapping about it on survival forums.
Rob Boudrie
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Antibiotics are among the most likely meds to lose their effeciveness with time. All meds have an expiration date, but it means more with antibiotics that with other meds.
It's easiest to let the pharmacy maintain your inventory if you are confident you will be able to get supplied before the other people looking to save themselves deplete the stock in an emergency. If you already have an Rx on hand, you'll have a considerable edge on your competitors who need to reach their MD to get one - which may not be easy to do quickly in a SHTF scenario. Of course, you have to see the SHTF before the pharmacies all close
.
An Rx is generally valid for only one year, unless you can find a friendly MD who conveniently forgets to date the Rx he gives you for emergency use.
Unless you know your MD really, really well (as in he'd bet his medical license you won't mis-use the narcotic), you're probably not going to get an Rx for a Schedule II drug to have "just in case".
It's easiest to let the pharmacy maintain your inventory if you are confident you will be able to get supplied before the other people looking to save themselves deplete the stock in an emergency. If you already have an Rx on hand, you'll have a considerable edge on your competitors who need to reach their MD to get one - which may not be easy to do quickly in a SHTF scenario. Of course, you have to see the SHTF before the pharmacies all close
.An Rx is generally valid for only one year, unless you can find a friendly MD who conveniently forgets to date the Rx he gives you for emergency use.
Unless you know your MD really, really well (as in he'd bet his medical license you won't mis-use the narcotic), you're probably not going to get an Rx for a Schedule II drug to have "just in case".
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W
wolf223
i still don't see how keeping antibiotics on-hand is even a thought.
outside of hollywood, spiking an IV bag and adding morphine (or some IV antibiotics) is not cool.
might be easier to just put them down... might cause more harm and make things worse if you give someone the wrong drug...
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
edit: having relatives who at some point required dialysis, injections for diabetes ect... they were regulary stocked with 30+ days suppy (aunts, grandparents ect..) -but when they got sick, they needed all kinds of drugs and couldn't take certain ones.
so anyone in good health should'nt need to stock anything outside aspirin, cough syrup ect. to treat comon cold, flu and allergy symptoms. maybe an inhaler, some benadryl and an epi pen... but anything else is asking for trouble.
also, with children, your doses are much smaller and based on weight.
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i still don't see how keeping antibiotics on-hand is even a thought.
outside of hollywood, spiking an IV bag and adding morphine (or some IV antibiotics) is not cool.
might be easier to just put them down... might cause more harm and make things worse if you give someone the wrong drug...
Doctors aren't magicians. Sufficient information is available to be able to self-prescribe yourself the right antibiotic for the problem at hand. If we didn't live in NannyWorld, we could go to the pharmacy and get what we needed for any possible scenario without a doctor patting me on the head and telling me what I can and can't do. And if we killed ourselves doing that, it's 100% on us. Of course that can't happen in NannyWorld.
If the SHTF and I need antibiotics, I'd rather read up on what I think I need, and take the closest thing I can, even if it means taking some pills meant for fish. I'd rather do that and take a chance at living then just resign myself to die because NannyWorld says I have to.
W
wolf223
gotcha
as suggested earlier - mail order pharmacies (canada, mexico, moldova, romania) from overseas - check your e-mail(s), i'm sure you get offers all the time
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
. INAL, not sure of the legalities involvedthe potential problem is their drugs don't meet nanny world standards, so you may be paying for sugar pills.... although they might taste and look the same
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Hey, as long as it works.sugar pills.... although they might taste and look the same
Sometimes the best medicine is telling someone that they're going to be ok.
gotcha
as suggested earlier - mail order pharmacies (canada, mexico, moldova, romania) from overseas - check your e-mail(s), i'm sure you get offers all the time
the potential problem is their drugs don't meet nanny world standards, so you may be paying for sugar pills.... although they might taste and look the same
i agree, not interested in Chinese meds! they probably just fill the capsules with the lead paint they have leftover from painting children's toys. I'm more interested in getting stocks of amoxicillin/tetracycline, etc. that is sold for expensive fish. I'd have much more faith in that being real-- i just want some REAL information on whether they add, say human-poison that fish love, in addition to the meds!
Put your meds in the fridge, if not the freezer.
All chemical actions are directly proportional to the temperature they are stored at. This includes the breakdown of the compounds in antibiotics.
The colder they are, the slower they break down. The only thing to watch out for involves things crystalizing (etc) when water starts to freeze.
Caution: as tetracycline ages it looses effectiveness then turns poisonous. Maybe not a good one for long term storage. Not sure how long that takes...
Rob Boudrie
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It depends on the situation, the nature of your problem, your medical history, and how long it will take to get medical attention. The problem with antibiotics is multiple: Medical advise is often required to get the right antibiotic, some people have allergies to certain antibiotics and there are public health implications with the overprescription of narcotics.
Part of intelligent antibiotic use is being an intelligent consumer of medical services and getting an MD to work with you. If your kid has had multiple confirmed cases of strep throat, and one antibiotic has repeatedly worked without complications, it's worth asking for a spare Rx to have for the next time. Likewise, if you've spiked a 105 degree fever with brown and cloudy urine and a dose of MD prescribed Cirpo or Bactrim cleared it up quickly, it's worth seeing if your MD will give you an Rx for your files if you get whacked with the same problem again so you can nail it before you hit 105.
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Oy vey. I'm not talking about not going to a doctor or self-prescribing meds NOW. I'm talking about if there ARE no doctors or if there ARE no antibiotics to be had! This IS the "survival forum".
Why do I have an emergency dental kit in my basement? Not so I can avoid seeing the dentist. Because if the SHTF and my filling falls out and I CAN'T leave, it would be nice to be able to do SOMETHING for my tooth!
I have a surgical kit too with a bunch of scalpels. I have a few books like "Ditch Medicine". Believe me, I'm not going to be operating on my kids for sh**s and giggles, but if the SHTF and my kid has a burst appendix and I have two choices- 1) watch them die while I wring my hands or 2) do the best I can with the information and tools I have put aside, I'll choose 2 every time.
So, yes, I understand people have allergies and reactions to Amoxicillin, I understand it doesn't work in all cases, I understand prescriptions and doctors are great, but given the choice of dying versus trying to save myself with Fishmox (tm), I'll try the Fishmox.
