Regarding the 25m zero for an Appleseed shoot: should it be POA = POI or a lollypop hold on a certain size target?
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
Appleseed zero question
- Thread starter guywithglasses
- Start date
Billsail
NES Member
It depends on you, your grip and stance, your cheek weld, your rifle, your sights, etc., etc. Whatever works! Good luck.
You'll make your life a little easier with POA=POI, because Appleseed involves shooting at more than one size target at 25m. On the other hand, once you get your position worked out, you'll probably find that your zero shifts a bit anyway, so don't sweat it too much.
Twigg
NES Member
I'm setting my riffles at POA=POI where my point of aim is the horizontal top of the post centered on the target. As it was stated that the targets are different sizes, the 400 yard simulated target sweet spot it about the size of a quarter. The targets are bottle shaped and I plan to shoot at the top of the widest part of the target just as it starts to narrow, the shoulder.
I only have 50 foot range so according to one of the online ballistic calculators the POI needs to be 0.8 inches low at 50 feet with 40 gr 22lr high velocity round. (my sights are 2.6 inches over bore, AR style on an MP15-22).
I only have 50 foot range so according to one of the online ballistic calculators the POI needs to be 0.8 inches low at 50 feet with 40 gr 22lr high velocity round. (my sights are 2.6 inches over bore, AR style on an MP15-22).
+ Another on this one.
Thanks to all for the advice. Going to the Harvard shoot this weekend!
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
You're overthinking this. Seriously.
We'll teach you how to zero yourself tomorrow without the need for any ballistic calculators. Just as long as you're on the paper to start, we're happy. Once we get you to make tight groups is time enough to worry about where the groups are.
bfm
NES Member
Listen to him. He was my instructor at this shoot last year. Was a very good experience.
Of course I am, Im an engineer, i get into that stuff.
I was tring to explain what i was doing just incase someone else had same issue (unable to zero at 25meters).
I have two relatively new shooters and myself using three new guns.
I wanted to be good to go from the start, since i know my personal problem will be consistency and the sling use.
Twigg
NES Member
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
*runs shrieking in horror off into the night*
Three new guns? Please tell me you ran at least a few hundred rounds through them to function check them.
Yeah cause if you plan on running reloads through them you might find a malfunction or two...
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
![[slap]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/025.gif "Slap [slap]")
Todd, that was my function check last night.
I think you need to be a little easier on us newbies on the post comments.
I'm sure glad i had mine dialed in. what did you think sprocket. no changes at all
FYI two of the guns were almost out of the box (just purchesd a month ago). no real time to shoot them with the kids. with thier schedules with all the school and activities and such, no time to get to the range, I wanted them to be the ones to shooter their riffles first. George's gun had 50 rounds to sight it in and hannah's 100 rounds. my gun had maybe 400 rounds through it.
They both had to make slight adjustments but i think george actual changed his back.
The M&P15-22s ran fine with 2000 plus rounds shot between the three, mine had a couple of failures to feed and a couple of failures to fire ( i wish they had a forward assist). not bad with all that sand blowing around and the wind fliping the mats throwing the guns into the sand a couple of times. georges had a few problems, but i think he figured it out (not seating the mag properly).
Anyhow I think you realy need to have it sighted in if you can before you come. one less thing to worry about.
The sugestion to have POI slightly higher than POA is probably a good idea. (1 moa or so)
I'm sure glad i had mine dialed in. what did you think sprocket. no changes at all
FYI two of the guns were almost out of the box (just purchesd a month ago). no real time to shoot them with the kids. with thier schedules with all the school and activities and such, no time to get to the range, I wanted them to be the ones to shooter their riffles first. George's gun had 50 rounds to sight it in and hannah's 100 rounds. my gun had maybe 400 rounds through it.
They both had to make slight adjustments but i think george actual changed his back.
The M&P15-22s ran fine with 2000 plus rounds shot between the three, mine had a couple of failures to feed and a couple of failures to fire ( i wish they had a forward assist). not bad with all that sand blowing around and the wind fliping the mats throwing the guns into the sand a couple of times. georges had a few problems, but i think he figured it out (not seating the mag properly).
Anyhow I think you realy need to have it sighted in if you can before you come. one less thing to worry about.
The sugestion to have POI slightly higher than POA is probably a good idea. (1 moa or so)
When I went this past weekend i had a brand new 10/22 with a brand new scope, and another 10/22 with a new barrel, stock and scope. There is a reason that the 2nd or 3rd target put up is sighting squares...
One of those rifles was about 8 inches low and 12 inches to the left, but we got it dialed in and I shot rifleman on my second AQT.
I don't see anything wrong with bringing a rifle that is new or not sighted in, as long as you are familiar with how the rifle functions and able to take follow the instruction of the folks putting on the event I think you'll be fine with whatever you bring.
In response to the OP, I agree with those that posted it depends on you and your style. Personally, I am going with center hold for scoped rifles and 6 o'clock for irons. That's just how my eyes and brain work.
One of those rifles was about 8 inches low and 12 inches to the left, but we got it dialed in and I shot rifleman on my second AQT.
I don't see anything wrong with bringing a rifle that is new or not sighted in, as long as you are familiar with how the rifle functions and able to take follow the instruction of the folks putting on the event I think you'll be fine with whatever you bring.
In response to the OP, I agree with those that posted it depends on you and your style. Personally, I am going with center hold for scoped rifles and 6 o'clock for irons. That's just how my eyes and brain work.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
There's nothing wrong with a rifle that's not sighted in, just as long as it is on the paper.
NEW rifles can be a problem for the simple reason that you don't know if they're going to be reliable or not. You don't know what type of round they'll prefer - .22s are notorious for having preferences.
I've seen too many shooters on the line who had rifle troubles, and every single one of them was focusing on why the rifle was malfunctioning and not on the instruction. I'm thrilled that the new rifles on the line this weekend did not do that to their owners!
And thanks for the report on the 15-22s, Powerman. That agrees with what I've seen before but it's nice to know that they're consistent in their quality. (I'm planning on getting one at some point so that's REAL nice to know!!)
NEW rifles can be a problem for the simple reason that you don't know if they're going to be reliable or not. You don't know what type of round they'll prefer - .22s are notorious for having preferences.
I've seen too many shooters on the line who had rifle troubles, and every single one of them was focusing on why the rifle was malfunctioning and not on the instruction. I'm thrilled that the new rifles on the line this weekend did not do that to their owners!
And thanks for the report on the 15-22s, Powerman. That agrees with what I've seen before but it's nice to know that they're consistent in their quality. (I'm planning on getting one at some point so that's REAL nice to know!!)
Ross
I agree it is not a requirement to have it sighted in and only need it on paper since you do good job at proper sight in as part of day one, but having it sighted in before made it easier to concentrate on other stuff.
I view the Appleseed in a little different light. For me it's at the present time is the only real place to put a lot of rounds down range and too do an equipment shake down under environmental conditions. What I mean by equipment is all the equipment including the riffle, ammo, sights, sling, clothing, food, water and the shooter. It all affects the outcome.
My son started to get it Sunday afternoon with the help of Todd and scored a 174, not bad since he probably only had a few hundred rounds out of an ar style rifle before Appleseed. I hit 184 with a blown target or two and was walking my way up slow but sure. I was mainly fighting my sling and had to readjust sometimes for a given range instead of just shifting POA. I was also only shooting with one eye open which worked better in the beginning but as the day wore on I was getting fatigued, I know it was affecting my vision.
I guess we really hijacked this thread
I agree it is not a requirement to have it sighted in and only need it on paper since you do good job at proper sight in as part of day one, but having it sighted in before made it easier to concentrate on other stuff.
I view the Appleseed in a little different light. For me it's at the present time is the only real place to put a lot of rounds down range and too do an equipment shake down under environmental conditions. What I mean by equipment is all the equipment including the riffle, ammo, sights, sling, clothing, food, water and the shooter. It all affects the outcome.
My son started to get it Sunday afternoon with the help of Todd and scored a 174, not bad since he probably only had a few hundred rounds out of an ar style rifle before Appleseed. I hit 184 with a blown target or two and was walking my way up slow but sure. I was mainly fighting my sling and had to readjust sometimes for a given range instead of just shifting POA. I was also only shooting with one eye open which worked better in the beginning but as the day wore on I was getting fatigued, I know it was affecting my vision.
I guess we really hijacked this thread
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Well... I have been saying for a couple of years now (based on bitter experience!) that if you have ANY flaw in your rifle, an Appleseed Shoot will definitely expose it. I've seen brand new rifles barf their extractors all over the shooting mat (Remington 597s - TWO of them. I'll never recommend them to anyone!), I've discovered the failure mode for 10/22 magazines (mud - jams 'em up in no time!), I've lost count of the number of sights that have worked their way loose because of a lack of (or failure of) LocTite, I've seen target rifles that can't handle a little dust (the tolerances are so tight that the spent casing just won't eject), and I watched a guy (a Highpower shooter) this weekend cursing his ammo - he'd bought several hundred rounds of Wolf .223 but hadn't tested it in his rifle... sure enough, it was failing to extract!
It just seems a waste to me that guys get geared up and come out to learn the fundamentals yet lose valuable instruction time because of mechanical problems that they could have found beforehand with some practice time.
Todd is an excellent instructor; I'm glad that he helped you and your son start to put it all together. IIRC, you had Vicky and Mike on your line, too.
As for closing your eye... yeah, that's one mistake I made, too, and have to still keep fighting sometimes to NOT make it. Keep practicing and dry-firing and you'll overcome it.
Similar threads
