AR armguard issue

[peterk123]

Ok, I couldn't wait. I have attempted the following:

Loosened the handguard and removed the set screws from the gas block. Tried to remove both in unison. Gas block won't budge. I whacked it with a hammer and a punch that would fit into the mlok slots. Nope.

Hit gas block with a small torch. Still won't budge.

Then tried to remove flash hider. First just wrench. Nope. Then hit it with a regular torch. Nope. Now I have it soaking in water. This has to work.

Let's assume that gas block is not coming off. It wouldn't shock me if they epoxied it on there or something at this point.

Is the changing of the buffer weight and spring the easier solution? If I go that route then do I need to get a few variations of each and see what works?

Thx Pete

 

[Golddiggie]

IME, gas blocks won't have epoxy holding them on. They'll just be tight (Tuco levels at times) to ensure a good seal. Easy to remove without a handguard in the way. Although set screws should be able to take up the spacing between the gas block and barrel. Of course, depending on the round count through the thing so far, it could just be some carbon buildup that's holding it in place.

Have you tried either removing those panels between the gas block and the receiver yet? Or just backing the screws out far enough so that they don't hit the gas block?

If you're having trouble removing those small screws, you could use a length of pipe on the hex key to give you more leverage. Just be sure that you keep the working end fully seated when you do. Or pick up a set of socket Allen keys to use with a wrench. I have the both 3/8" and 1/2" drive versions on hand, for different tasks. The 3/8" drive versions are often shorter so that you don't need to worry, as much, about them breaking. I do have a 3/8" set that are long, because I needed them for a task.

IMO, companies that use more than blue thread locker on screws on things like that handguard deserve double nut punches. Especially if they require you to back off those screws to take the handguard off the upper.

As for changing the buffer and spring out, it really depends on what you're looking to accomplish. If you're planning to always run the thing suppressed, then you could do that. If you want to switch between suppressed and not, then it's not as good of a choice. You'll end up getting it "OK" for both, maybe, but not really great for either. If you do end up going that route, you might want to get one of the buffers that you can change the weight of so that you can fully tune it.

 

[peterk123]

IME, gas blocks won't have epoxy holding them on. They'll just be tight (Tuco levels at times) to ensure a good seal. Easy to remove without a handguard in the way. Although set screws should be able to take up the spacing between the gas block and barrel. Of course, depending on the round count through the thing so far, it could just be some carbon buildup that's holding it in place.

Have you tried either removing those panels between the gas block and the receiver yet? Or just backing the screws out far enough so that they don't hit the gas block?

If you're having trouble removing those small screws, you could use a length of pipe on the hex key to give you more leverage. Just be sure that you keep the working end fully seated when you do. Or pick up a set of socket Allen keys to use with a wrench. I have the both 3/8" and 1/2" drive versions on hand, for different tasks. The 3/8" drive versions are often shorter so that you don't need to worry, as much, about them breaking. I do have a 3/8" set that are long, because I needed them for a task.

IMO, companies that use more than blue thread locker on screws on things like that handguard deserve double nut punches. Especially if they require you to back off those screws to take the handguard off the upper.

As for changing the buffer and spring out, it really depends on what you're looking to accomplish. If you're planning to always run the thing suppressed, then you could do that. If you want to switch between suppressed and not, then it's not as good of a choice. You'll end up getting it "OK" for both, maybe, but not really great for either. If you do end up going that route, you might want to get one of the buffers that you can change the weight of so that you can fully tune it.

Thanks, very helpful. Ya, I tried removing the little screws, they won't budge. The customer service rep said to be careful because they strip easy.

We will always run the gun suppressed. But I have the current buffer and spring and fortunately something on this goddamn gun is easy enough to swap out.

 

[Golddiggie]

Thanks, very helpful. Ya, I tried removing the little screws, they won't budge. The customer service rep said to be careful because they strip easy.

We will always run the gun suppressed. But I have the current buffer and spring and fortunately something on this goddamn gun is easy enough to swap out.

In that case, just tune it with the buffer and spring and call it a day. Unless you want to play buffer weight roulette, get one that you can change the weights inside to get fully tuned. I picked one up to tune my AR10 pistol. Mostly because I was unsure of the spring weight.

IMO, it's still a dick move for the company that made the upper to do all that they did to make it so you could not [easily] change things out later. I only have one AR15 upper that's like that. It's from PWS and their long stroke gas piston model. With how the gas system is, it would take more effort than it's worth to be able to break down the upper. I was thinking of hitting it with Cerakote, until I removed the handguard and saw what was under it. Luckily, the handguard WAS easy to remove (unlike what you've been dealing with).

 

[peterk123]

In that case, just tune it with the buffer and spring and call it a day. Unless you want to play buffer weight roulette, get one that you can change the weights inside to get fully tuned. I picked one up to tune my AR10 pistol. Mostly because I was unsure of the spring weight.

IMO, it's still a dick move for the company that made the upper to do all that they did to make it so you could not [easily] change things out later. I only have one AR15 upper that's like that. It's from PWS and their long stroke gas piston model. With how the gas system is, it would take more effort than it's worth to be able to break down the upper. I was thinking of hitting it with Cerakote, until I removed the handguard and saw what was under it. Luckily, the handguard WAS easy to remove (unlike what you've been dealing with).

Agreed. It is not well thought out. Good news though. Soaking the FH in water helped to get it off. Can at least test the gun as is worth the suppressor. Still took quite a bit of torque.

 

[67ray]

Agreed. It is not well thought out. Good news though. Soaking the FH in water helped to get it off. Can at least test the gun as is worth the suppressor. Still took quite a bit of torque.

View attachment 967672

Nice looking AR. For the small screws, you can try a cut-off allen and smack it with a hammer. Sometimes it will loosen the locktite enough to break free. And try tightening them before loosening, ever so slightly. Again just to break the locktite.

If you want an mlok attachment, they do make very thin mlok nuts that are about 3/32" thick inside the handguard. Do you have space for that?

 

[GlockBy]

The gun is a shooter. That's why I want to suppress it, so she can use it for yotes (not that she couldn't without it).

I'm going to call the company and attempt to talk to a human being before I pull things apart. I will also ask them how that FH is secured while I'm at it. It's not that I'm afraid to pull things apart. Just don't want to sit there and guess at it and do more than I have to.

This is the current spring and weight. Can't see any markings. I suppose I can weigh the buffer.

View attachment 967648

Weight markings usually go on a face that touches the back of the BCG. If nothing there - most likely it is a carbine buffer. Yes, do weigh it to know for sure.

 

[GlockBy]

Let's assume that gas block is not coming off. It wouldn't shock me if they epoxied it on there or something at this point.

Is the changing of the buffer weight and spring the easier solution? If I go that route then do I need to get a few variations of each and see what works?

Do you have any heavy buffers laying around or used in other rifles (h1/h2/h3)? Or have a buddy you can borrow them from for testing? This would be the easiest and cheapest option to figure out what you want for this rifle. My guess is h2 would work both suppressed and unsuppressed, h3 for suppressed only, but it it can vary depending on rifle/loads. You can also try bootleg adjustable bcg for additional tuning or as a standalone option.

You can also fire it suppressed as is (after you torqued the muzzle device and verified alignment) to see how it feels, how ejection looks, and how gassy it is, before doing anything else.

FYI, if you have H3 and Carbine buffers and some fresh roll pins, you can transform them into H1 and H2 by combining their weights differently. Pain in the ass for quick testing, but can save a few bucks or be useful if h2/h1 are out of stock.

 

[drgrant]

With the amount of time you've spent on this you could have just bought a new upper.

 

[peterk123]

Do you have any heavy buffers laying around or used in other rifles (h1/h2/h3)? Or have a buddy you can borrow them from for testing? This would be the easiest and cheapest option to figure out what you want for this rifle. My guess is h2 would work both suppressed and unsuppressed, h3 for suppressed only, but it it can vary depending on rifle/loads. You can also try bootleg adjustable bcg for additional tuning or as a standalone option.

You can also fire it suppressed as is (after you torqued the muzzle device and verified alignment) to see how it feels, how ejection looks, and how gassy it is, before doing anything else.

FYI, if you have H3 and Carbine buffers and some fresh roll pins, you can transform them into H1 and H2 by combining their weights differently. Pain in the ass for quick testing, but can save a few bucks or be useful if h2/h1 are out of stock.

So that's why I saw roll pins in my buffer! One good thing is coming out of all of this. I'm learning more and more about ARs. Any day I learn something new is a good day. More so, if it's gun related.

 

[peterk123]

Nice looking AR. For the small screws, you can try a cut-off allen and smack it with a hammer. Sometimes it will loosen the locktite enough to break free. And try tightening them before loosening, ever so slightly. Again just to break the locktite.

If you want an mlok attachment, they do make very thin mlok nuts that are about 3/32" thick inside the handguard. Do you have space for that?

I ground down the bolts that came with the rail. Worked like a charm. Made sure that at least a piece of paper could slide between the bolt and the barrel.

 

[peterk123]

With the amount of time you've spent on this you could have just bought a new upper.

Agreed.

 

[Golddiggie]

With the amount of time you've spent on this you could have just made a new upper.

Corrected that for a.

 

[drgrant]

Corrected that for a.

Yeah or at least build it out if somebody wanted to learn something you'd be better off just buying a bunch of parts and assembling it from scratch then trying to undo somebody else's dumpster fire that you'll never ever see again unless you're actually getting into Gunsmithing.

 

[GlockBy]

I ground down the bolts that came with the rail. Worked like a charm. Made sure that at least a piece of paper could slide between the bolt and the barrel.

I would shave the bolts so they are level or barely above the nuts. Barrels whip during firing, paper width clearance might not be enough to prevent bolts from poking the wrap. Maybe your barrel is different, but make sure to check that area for damage if you leave it as is.

p.s.: How much clearance is there from the top of the nuts to the barrel right now? Thinner m-lok nuts, as mentioned before, might be a good idea.

 

[Golddiggie]

Yeah or at least build it out if somebody wanted to learn something you'd be better off just buying a bunch of parts and assembling it from scratch then trying to undo somebody else's dumpster fire that you'll never ever see again unless you're actually getting into Gunsmithing.

Yup. Luckily the few complete uppers I've bought have not been dumpster fires of stupidity. I would consider changing the handguard on one of them (AR10) but it's not a priority. All the rest are uppers I put together myself. Well, other than what I've done to my first (ever) AR. That how you learn to NOT buy something that you're not 100% happy without learn to avoid oddball crap.

 

[peterk123]

I would shave the bolts so they are level or barely above the nuts. Barrels whip during firing, paper width clearance might not be enough to prevent bolts from poking the wrap. Maybe your barrel is different, but make sure to check that area for damage if you leave it as is.

p.s.: How much clearance is there from the top of the nuts to the barrel right now? Thinner m-lok nuts, as mentioned before, might be a good idea.

I can't get a look in there but I'd say maybe one thread beyond the nut. The arca is also placed as close to the action as I can get it, so there should not be much if any flex there.

Want to hear something nuts though? The existing gas block is basically touching the handguard. Crazy thing is that it shoots good. She's pinging 8 inch steel at 325 yards. That's a dead coyote. Maybe the carbon wrap really stiffens the barrel????.