KBCraig
NES Member
No one needs a spindle that turns 25,000 RPM!LOL, More like Bosch and Porter Cable with high capacity 1/2" collets
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No one needs a spindle that turns 25,000 RPM!LOL, More like Bosch and Porter Cable with high capacity 1/2" collets
See my post #192 it has a pic from the ATF that indicates that they are the holes for the selector, the trigger pin and the hammer pin and you have to have a completely solid fire control cavity.
ETA Not to mention that the FCG cavity can not be “indexed” in any way, meaning that in a polymer 80% lower the FCG can’t be made of a different color material. That was tried by EP Arms and the ATF didn’t allow it. From the letter:
The technology will evolve faster than the rules or the courts.I dont think the rule is going to survive intact/without major portions being stuck down by courts......but its going to take time, money and lots of billed hours to lawyers and ruined lives to get there......
Sure, but I wouldn’t have put it past the atf to say “doesn’t matter; if it comes in the door, you must serialize it.” That they are treating PMFs the same as any other work seems … significant, I guessUnless something has changed recently, that's already the standard for gunsmiths. Overnight? BB. Same day? No BB.
Plenty of [STRIKE]80%s[/STRIKE][BOLD]drop guns[/BOLD] show up at crime scenes
No one needs a spindle that turns 25,000 RPM!
Does that mean I have to register all my routers as machine guns now?
Does that mean I have to register all my routers as machine guns now?
Does that mean I have to register all my routers as machine guns now?
And if it’s a compact, you have to SBR it.Only if they have a forward grip or a stock, otherwise they are a pistol.
Especially FFLs who engrave serial numbers as a sideline...One result will be FFLs not allowing unserialized receivers into their shops.
One result will be FFLs not allowing unserialized receivers into their shops.
Oh, this the funniest idea so far! It's funny enough for me to want to try building an 80%! Cape Gun Works puts on these build workshops I think I am going to try it just so could get that SN and manufacturer engraved on it !!!! It also helps I live less than 5 minutes from them.A P80 builder could inscribe 5318008 Smegma Industries" on every gun they make
From 80% arms' website, it looks like--at least eventually--AR-15 uppers will be serialized and require a background check. From their reading, pistol slides are safe. Also according to them, all 80% lowers (jig or not) would require a background check and a serial #. It's crazy that "regulations" like this need to be deciphered by a legal team for anyone to understand them.
ATF Final Ruling 2021R-05F | Complete Breakdown
I would have to see it in the doc and have not so far.I read that, not sure I believe it as far as the upper part - seems like knowledgeable sources say exactly otherwise.
I read that, not sure I believe it as far as the upper part - seems like knowledgeable sources say exactly otherwise.
I like some of your comments on this, but details matter.The rule as written eliminates sale of unserialized 80% uppers in the previously provided "Example 2" which clearly states the presence of a pilot hole or indexing mark = requirement to serialize/treat as a firearm for purposes of transfer/sale
Welcome to the age of the 0% lower
I would have to see it in the doc and have not so far.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/r...frame-or-receiver-and-identification/download
There are plenty of 80% AR lowers that don’t have pilot or index marks.The threshold clearly enumerated in the final rule that was released the other day by the ATF clearly stated that ANY pilot hole/index mark = requirement for serialization and treat as firearm for purposes of sale/xfer to private individual
Once that goes into effect....and it WILL go into effect....the only option for an individual to make their own PMF without being required to go through the above/4473 charades to use a 0% lower/blank that has NO pilot holes or index marks.
The link to the rule has been posted a bunch of times, go read it starting at about page 290
Lots of talk and something they can put out before the mid-terms, but very little substance if you dig into the actual documents.
Looks like they want home made guns to get serial numbers. Maybe just if they ever touch an FFL, maybe required of the maker. This is the biggest part.
They might redefine the percent complete, but it sounds more like they will stay with the 80% but call it a firearm if it's part of a kit. So an AR80% WITH a jig is a firearm, but without it is not. And an AK80% that is folded (just needs the holes drilled), or one sold with a jig, is a firearm. But a flat by itself isn't. The the whole thing is just more confusing BS.
They want new split receiver designs to call both halves a firearm, but because the AR platform is so common, anything that already exists will not be redefined, even if newly manufactured. So a little future impact but it won't affect the AR platform or any other existing split receiver guns.
I will note a little flash of light. Their own publication mentions the large numbers and common use of the AR. This will bite them in the ass when they try to ban ARs. That whole firearms in common use thing.
So there will be lots of talk and fear mongering. Instead focus on the serial number thing.
If its just when it passes through an FFL I wouldn't worry so much. Lets face it, if you are making a gun at home and later sell it to someone else, I doubt it's going through an FFL anyway.
But if they require the home builder to serialize it that's another story. The response to that should be everyone going to Home Depot getting what they need to put together 100 slamfire shotguns and then the entire country submitting them for serial numbers on the same day. That should get the message across as to how pointless that rule would be.
Look at the ATF’s own documentation. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-“80”-or-“unfinished”-receivers-illegalWhich of these 80%'s have neither pilot holes or "indexing marks"?
Well, if you want to go to that extreme you can say that a block of aluminum with the take down holes drilled in it is index. If that’s going to be the case, I’m not sure why they would have even bothered to include example 4.The old definition no longer matters....its chucked out the window by the new rule
And example 4 is null and void in the precence of example 2 which clearly and unequivocably states that ANY pilot hole or indexing mark = gun
You can argue all you want but the simple fact of the matter is that the ATF is going to charge a manufacturer with a series of felonies if they sell ANY unserialized lower that has a pilot hole/indexing mark.
Thats how this works....always has and always will
To the editor: What nobody seems to realize is that whether one supports the regulation of ghost guns or not, the increasing use of government by executive order is neither healthy for the country, democratic, nor in compliance with the intent or substance of our governing documents. ("Biden targets 'ghost gun' violence with new federal rule," April 11)
And perhaps most important, precedent is established and each succeeding administration is more inclined to use executive orders instead of the messy but inclusive and democratic process of legislative enactment.
As a people, we shade more and more toward dictatorial power — and nobody seems to notice or object to the progression, particularly when they like the result. But just wait for the next administration, which will use the same power for different results.
Those who remained silent for executive orders they liked will rue the day that they sat in silence.
My reply was in reference to the claim it also would be the upper going forward. I have not yet seen anything in the doc stating the upper would become a regulated part.Look around page 330, defines specifically the reciever of an AR is the lower.