You miss the whole point.
Living in a state where there are no restrictions............THAT'S THE POINT.
Living in a state where you have to be looking over your shoulder at every move you make is NOT living free, it's deluding yourself.
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ATF Redefines All Private Sales & Who Has To Have A FFL
- Thread starter peter_nh
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Living in a state where there are no restrictions............THAT'S THE POINT.
Living in a state where you have to be looking over your shoulder at every move you make is NOT living free, it's deluding yourself.
No, its a pretty easy and simplistic point, we just have wildly different views on it.
You define someone who uproots their whole lives, personal and professional, to go somewhere where there are no restrictions as having the most freedom.
I define someone who lives somewhere there are restrictions, but does as he chooses and lives his life as he wants, as being more "dedicated" to freedom than the above person.
Its easy to be free when theres nothing. Its a lot harder to be free when theres a boot on your neck. Give me the guy with the boot on his neck 10 times out 10 as being "dedicated to freedom"
So, they're all exempt cops?
Sure, you can own anything you want in MA......until that one incident with some douche bag cop that brings your whole world to an end. It happens all the time.
By contrast, those who live in free states don't have to contend with any of that stuff. There are no laws to be concerned about.
They also don't pay taxes that are used against them to restrict their lives.
![[thumbsup]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/044.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbsup]")
Lokdog
NES Member
So you have 2 types of people, people who lived scared and people who don't. It doesn't matter where you live because if you're the 1 who lives scared then you lived scared. It doesn't matter if you're in South Carolina or Massachusetts.
Ok, have it your way.
You're mentally captured by your own delusion.
Reading comprehension. The post I quoted, the gentleman used the term "Dedicated to freedom". I made no statements on who is "more free"
But you're literally the person telling other people that they are looking over their shoulder and their whole life is going to come to an end. Who's the deluded one?
Ill leave you with that.
btnh6668
NES Member
That being said you also left out a third type. Which is the person that didn't live scared until something happened and now they are facing jail time and losing everything they had. Now they are very scared. While it's cool to be a tough guy when things are going well, its when they aren't that is the problem.
Lokdog
NES Member
Living "unscared" is being a tough guy? Ok
Lokdog
NES Member
I bet you're the same guy that says you can't own a glock or an AR in Mass too?
btnh6668
NES Member
Yea that's me. You nailed it haha. I also voted for Biden and Healy. I gave up my job to run her campaign. Easy to talk a big game when you aren't in the shit. As the saying goes "People want to be gangsters until it's time to do gangster shit".
Lokdog
NES Member
LMFAO!! Okay dude!! Go get 'em
Cool whataboutism. Get that consensus cracked yet?
So your argument is that financing the state of MA is ok because you also finance the feds? And you accuse me of mental gymnastics?
Thanks for shedding light on exactly why MA is a lost cause.
I stated my argument pretty clearly above. I find people that are in oppressive places exercising freedom regardless of consequence to be a better display of being dedicated to freedom than people that run away to places that already have it.
You whataboutted to taxes and oppressing neighbors and blah blah blah. But when the ATF shows up and shoots my dog, I’ll come back and thank you for being so free that you funded them to do it.
You whataboutted to taxes and oppressing neighbors and blah blah blah. But when the ATF shows up and shoots my dog, I’ll come back and thank you for being so free that you funded them to do it.
If you’d like me to comment on what you said , I can.
None of it is Ok. Your money and your work should go towards causes you believe in, not things that oppress you. I just can’t really see how people who move away paying their taxes to the feds, which are historically the most oppressive branch of government possible, are fine, but people in MA who maybe don’t have the ability to move are the devils who are oppressing their neighbors.
I think the lost cause spreads a lot farther than you’d like to admit
EJFudd
NES Member
I understand what you mean. I also think the same applies to the entire world. I have much more respect and admiration for people living in shitty countries that stay and work hard to make those countries better... than the ones who run away to places where things are better and you don't have to work for anything at all. And yes, I have seen that sort of thing up front and personal with my own eyes. Hell, it is happening right now with the illegal alien invasion crisis.
Concerning taxes... yes, most of us here pay a fortune in taxes (state, federal and local) and a lot of that goes to many things we don't want to pay for, including oppressive nanny government that tramples on our rights. I don't have a good answer about how to escape those taxes, but I do know that my total family tax bill in "live free or die" NH (as retired folks) would be significantly higher than it is in loony, moonbatty Taxachusetts. Weird, but true. YMMV.
All that said, the new MA anti-gunowner law (whenever it comes) will be bad and threatening and I won't diss anyone who decides they have to leave rather than stay. Fighting it within state government will be futile... impossible, really. It will be a court fight. It will be long and nasty and costly. But the fight must be won and some of us had better stick around to fund it and fight it or we are doomed to watch all of the New England states eventually flush down the anti-2A drain.
556USER
NES Member
They left out Maine? Sorry, I forgot that Maine has gone off the cliff.
I think that it's a bit more nuanced than just staying in Mass to fight. When I decided to move to NH I fully expected to have to fight for gun rights here as well. In NH most election races between dems and Republicans are always fairly close compared to Mass. If every Conservative Mass gun owner moved to NH and voted appropriately it could realistically make a difference. It could ensure that the 2 US Senators from NH were 2A supporters which would be key to SCOTUS nominations being confirmed OR NOT when appropriate. Key federal gun legislation would also be impacted.
Anyways, It would take a fantasy level number of conservatives moving to Mass to move the needle at all and we know that ain't gonna happen. Mass is stuck at 65/35 on the wrong side in most major elections. NH is certainly not perfect but I feel that it can still be saved by getting involved in conservative politics here. If we can save the purple states things will take care of themselves at the federal level making it much easier to give states like Mass a good smack down. Mass is not a good place at all to wage the fight. 2A supporters are already surrounded an infiltrated by the enemy 65/35. There are better places to wage the fight tactically from a defensive and offensive point of view.
Edit: Had to add that even the 35% that vote against liberals in Mass are not all big 2A supporters that would hold 2A as a key issue for them. Who knows how much lower the hard core 2A number is?
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100% And I totally recognize and understand/agree with your reasoning. I was just trying to point out how ridiculous it is to say people who stay in MA don’t care about freedom.
Maybe. But to see any shift, we need to start somewhere. The fact is that the 2A community is growing in depth and broadening. This is happening while the focus is also shifting from fudd mentality to actually preserving the intent of the 2A.
My focus is to raise my children to value the 2A and self-reliance. It’s harder to do that in MA, but not impossible. And who knows, maybe my kids’ opinions will rub off on their friends.
Shifts don’t happen overnight and the 2A fight needs to be across all 50 states.
556USER
NES Member
Agree.
I don't know any Mass gun owners who live scared. I do know a lot that are getting very weary of the laundry list of rules in place that can get you locked up if you don't store it right, transport it right, have your hall pass etc, etc. I know a lot who are weary of calling Bruce Tarr thinking that maybe he can do something for them LOL. I've been voting conservative in Mass for a very long time, paying GOAL memberships and is still gets worse. It's not about being afraid it's about being realistic. Go ahead and actually use a gun in Mass to defend yourself and there's a damn good chance you'll wind up in the liberal version of a FAFO thread someplace. Have a good day.
556USER
NES Member
I have a lot of respect for your position. If things get bad enough in Mass the voters just might see the light, but I think they'll have to hit rock bottom first. Won't be pretty.
I don't know your situation, but I can't imagine how this could be true. RE taxes in NH (like MA) can be higher or lower, depending on where you move. But the dividend/interest tax is going away within another ~2 years and no income tax (retirement income is not taxed even today in NH) has to make a positive difference.
Sorry to break the bad news............they were flushed......20 years ago...........pretty much 30 years ago in MA.
You can stick around all you want, it's your money, your life and your miserable 2A existence......but don't ever say you weren't warned or didn't know how bad it would get.
You're dreaming!.......and you're wasting your life away doing it.
I saw MA turning commie back in the 1960's........and it has gotten exponentially worse year after year since then.
Cut your losses, shed the nanny state, pack your $hit up and find somewhere you can live with some modicum of freedom.
Of course there is. Hence why @PappyM3 brought up their "mission statement". No one is saying a business shouldn't exist to earn profits. What we are saying is it is hypocritical to pretend your a 2A absolutist when you won't sell lawful/legal items to someone just because of where they live.
A) Your on a New England based gun forum. Talk about a foolish take.
B) People in blue states should just roll over and accept it?
EJFudd
NES Member
Quite simply, the property taxes where we went retirement property shopping in NH were staggeringly high... obscenely high... and in retirement (and on Social Security primarily), the offsetting savings from no income tax and no sales tax were insufficient to make up the difference between the two states. Remember that MA does not tax Social Security and so that blunts the savings from essentially no income tax at all in NH. Since we buy very little in sales-taxed items these days, that potential savings only amounts to a hill of beans and a lot of it is easily avoided (think: NH shopping trips).
It really boils down to where in NH one wants to live. Yes, we could have chosen a smallish lot with a modest older house in close to one of the major cities... or gone way farther north perhaps... and made it work out (at least financially speaking), but that's not what we wanted. That would not have made a move to NH desirable for us at all.
EJFudd
NES Member
Exactly. One last time (I promise): It's not the business decision. It's the dishonest, hypocritical mission statement that offends.
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