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ATF Special Agent Phone Call

eColi said:
Probably new guy. He was very stern at beginning of call but that quickly changed.

I don't know how he couldn't see my tax stamp and realize something wasn't right.
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What I've been told about the guys out of Bedford is there's basically a "good cop/bad cop" thing going on. One of the two main agents is a decent guy. The other one is a flaming ******* that is always trying to hook everyone and their brother's uncle up for something. Course could have changed staffing since I heard that, this was years ago.

FWIW I don't think the typical agent types have easy access to the NFRTR (NFA database) so I'm not surprised. It's not like they couldn't have made a phone call, though.

It sure seems so. If I was really a PP you'd think the shithole of MA would've known.
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Getting an LTC in MA means nothing. There are probably federally prohibited persons in MA with LTCs in their hands, twiddling their thumbs, right now. (ATF doesn't want to restore rights based on FRB appeals case because MA doesn't cause you to lose voting rights when they take your gun rights away.... so at one point there were some people who survived the FRB appeals process but unfortunately are still prohibited persons. At one point the ATF was "OK" with this and then they suddenly "flipped" a few years later. Go figure. These people had LTC but would often not pass NICS, but ATF more or less said they would not prosecute. Talk about a mess for anyone in those shoes...

There have also been guys who got LTCs, then came on here and said "got an LTC, then got a NICS denial" either due to a mix up like what you've encountered, or some old disqualifying charge they forgot about that somehow, the state didn't find when it did its own BG check...

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
What I've been told about the guys out of Bedford is there's basically a "good cop/bad cop" thing going on. One of the two main agents is a decent guy. The other one is a flaming ******* that is always trying to hook everyone and their brother's uncle up for something. Course could have changed staffing since I heard that, this was years ago.

FWIW I don't think the typical agent types have easy access to the NFRTR (NFA database) so I'm not surprised. It's not like they couldn't have made a phone call, though.



Getting an LTC in MA means nothing. There are probably federally prohibited persons in MA with LTCs in their hands, twiddling their thumbs, right now. (ATF doesn't want to restore rights based on FRB appeals case because MA doesn't cause you to lose voting rights when they take your gun rights away.... so at one point there were some people who survived the FRB appeals process but unfortunately are still prohibited persons. At one point the ATF was "OK" with this and then they suddenly "flipped" a few years later. Go figure. These people had LTC but would often not pass NICS, but ATF more or less said they would not prosecute. Talk about a mess for anyone in those shoes...

There have also been guys who got LTCs, then came on here and said "got an LTC, then got a NICS denial" either due to a mix up like what you've encountered, or some old disqualifying charge they forgot about that somehow, the state didn't find when it did its own BG check...

-Mike
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Good information. He seems like the "good cop".

I hear you on all other info. But I do know the exact old charge that he questioned which would make me a PP. But, based on a new trial and evidence the charge was reduced.

So it doesn't matter about MA or any other state. He is not properly reviewing my information or a particular case was not updated.

This isn't the first time I've had issues. Had to pull strings at FBI because a analyst could not properly read a judge's hand writing.

Yeah, FML.
 
I also took note that he mentioned me calling him back so quickly was appreciated and clearly helps the cause.

Maybe it's the people who don't call back and are not willing to cooperate that get their door kicked in?

I'm sure he only would've left a few messages and then a stop by my house.

To be straight though. He did seem like a nice enough guy. We'll see though today based off his reply.
 
Kevin_NH said:
That's the way to do it -- they leave a message, you look up the # for the local office and call them back. If you're paranoid, call them back from a landline phone somewhere.
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Some years back I got a call from a woman claiming to be an FBI agent asking about an incident at a local police academy. I got her name and office location, hung up and called her back after googling the info. It turned out to be legit and she laughed and said that it happens to her just about every day. Normal folks are not expecting a call from the Feds and usually assume it is someone busting their balls.
 
drgrant said:
There have also been guys who got LTCs, then came on here and said "got an LTC, then got a NICS denial" either due to a mix up like what you've encountered, or some old disqualifying charge they forgot about that somehow, the state didn't find when it did its own BG check...

-Mike
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I know for a fact that there were some states that actually don't share criminal history with other states. Maybe felony stuff gets through, but small time stuff and driving offenses are not universally shared. Maybe they are "supposed" to be, but some lazy shmuck said "F it" and never entered the stuff. I've seen it happen on a few different occasions. Would explain how MA didn't know but the Feds do.
 
eColi said:
Good information. He seems like the "good cop".

I hear you on all other info. But I do know the exact old charge that he questioned which would make me a PP. But, based on a new trial and evidence the charge was reduced.

So it doesn't matter about MA or any other state. He is not properly reviewing my information or a particular case was not updated.

This isn't the first time I've had issues. Had to pull strings at FBI because a analyst could not properly read a judge's hand writing.

Yeah, FML.
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The thing I'm most curious about- if this is a settled issue legally, what are they going to do for you so it doesn't keep coming up? There's a bunch of people I've encountered that have run into similar problems as yourself. They get a UPIN, etc, still get delayed, etc. It's a bunch of garbage. Lots of these guys didn't even do anything, they just happen to have the same name as some guy that did- or they got their identity stolen, etc.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
The thing I'm most curious about- if this is a settled issue legally, what are they going to do for you so it doesn't keep coming up? There's a bunch of people I've encountered that have run into similar problems as yourself. They get a UPIN, etc, still get delayed, etc. It's a bunch of garbage. Lots of these guys didn't even do anything, they just happen to have the same name as some guy that did- or they got their identity stolen, etc.

-Mike
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He did mention a NH or NH State Police pin of some sorts? Never heard of it myself. He said when he reaches back out he will provide more information.
 
drgrant said:
The thing I'm most curious about- if this is a settled issue legally, what are they going to do for you so it doesn't keep coming up? There's a bunch of people I've encountered that have run into similar problems as yourself. They get a UPIN, etc, still get delayed, etc. It's a bunch of garbage. Lots of these guys didn't even do anything, they just happen to have the same name as some guy that did- or they got their identity stolen, etc.

-Mike
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For 20 years I've never made a purchase where there was NOT a 15 - 20 minute delay while they looked more closely at my record, followed by a proceed. I never had to wait a couple days, but never had a seamless transaction either.

I now have an FFL and happened to need a 10-22 so my son could attend an Appleseed. It was just more convenient to buy it on my LTC at another shop and not keep a "used" rifle on the bound book. The NICS approval was instantaneous. I think even the clerk was surprised. On this single data sample I extrapolate that the high scrutiny given the FFL process flagged my NICS identity in some way that cleared me right away.

So, eColi, what have you got to lose? Get an FFL and see what happens.
 
namedpipes said:
For 20 years I've never made a purchase where there was NOT a 15 - 20 minute delay while they looked more closely at my record, followed by a proceed. I never had to wait a couple days, but never had a seamless transaction either.

I now have an FFL and happened to need a 10-22 so my son could attend an Appleseed. It was just more convenient to buy it on my LTC at another shop and not keep a "used" rifle on the bound book. The NICS approval was instantaneous. I think even the clerk was surprised. On this single data sample I extrapolate that the high scrutiny given the FFL process flagged my NICS identity in some way that cleared me right away.

So, eColi, what have you got to lose? Get an FFL and see what happens.
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I've considered it many times. I think the hold back was the fact I was living in MA and there were issues with having your home as a place of business? Idk. Remember reading something of that sorts.


Now that I live in NH I might just do that. Are you in NH and base the FFL out of your house?
 
eColi said:
I've considered it many times. I think the hold back was the fact I was living in MA and there were issues with having your home as a place of business? Idk. Remember reading something of that sorts.


Now that I live in NH I might just do that. Are you in NH and base the FFL out of your house?
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"Home occupation" FFLs are pretty common in NH, especially if you don't have parking, employees and signs. For example, one of my sons in NH has one and is now in the third town. A note from the selectmen approving of it is all the ATF needs to see. Jack.
 
one-eyed Jack said:
"Home occupation" FFLs are pretty common in NH, especially if you don't have parking, employees and signs. For example, one of my sons in NH has one and is now in the third town. A note from the selectmen approving of it is all the ATF needs to see. Jack.
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Awesome! I might just give the selectmen a call today! Or email?
 
eColi said:
I've considered it many times. I think the hold back was the fact I was living in MA and there were issues with having your home as a place of business? Idk. Remember reading something of that sorts.


Now that I live in NH I might just do that. Are you in NH and base the FFL out of your house?
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I'm in MA and have commercial zoned space, however, even IN Mass it is possible to obtain an FFL in the home if you follow the tightrope carefully.


one-eyed Jack said:
"Home occupation" FFLs are pretty common in NH, especially if you don't have parking, employees and signs. For example, one of my sons in NH has one and is now in the third town. A note from the selectmen approving of it is all the ATF needs to see. Jack.
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And this.
 
I'm surprised and happy that there isn't 30 posters on here saying "delete this immediately and lawyer up" [grin]
 
PaulR said:
I'm surprised and happy that there isn't 30 posters on here saying "delete this immediately and lawyer up" [grin]
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There isn't anything to lawyer up about... out of the gate the OP is in the right, and he knows it. Definitely not his first rodeo on this, either. [laugh]

-Mike
 
slap shot said:
Was he wearing a banana suit? [wink]
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Maybe.

A.K. said:
Still no resolution?
Audience is holding it's breath.
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Spoke with him this morning. He said he was still waiting for a response back from his NICS liaison to verify my UPIN and he also left a message for my contact at NICS.


I told him the information he is basing this off of is incorrect. He said it's from his legal team so he has to go off that. I instructed him to read the Massachusetts Crime List available online that shows max prison time for a particular charge. The one in question is no more than 2 1/2 months.


His next response was he needs to make sure that the charge back then is still the same "type" charge nowadays. Laws change!


With no response from NICS and it almost approaching 24 hours I pulled out my "big guns", no pun intended and contacted the NICS Liaison Unit Chief to reach out to the special agent.


An analyst is working with him now so should hear back shortly.
 
Laws change? And the results change from the time of the courts decision?

so all the marijuana trafficking charges in MA are dropped?

And those perps are good for ma ltc now?
 
PaulR said:
I'm surprised and happy that there isn't 30 posters on here saying "delete this immediately and lawyer up" [grin]
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[laugh2]

drgrant said:
There isn't anything to lawyer up about... out of the gate the OP is in the right, and he knows it. Definitely not his first rodeo on this, either. [laugh]

-Mike
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[horse]

W.E.C said:
Laws change? And the results change from the time of the courts decision?

so all the marijuana trafficking charges in MA are dropped?

And those perps are good for ma ltc now?
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Exactly, what happens in court is what is recorded, reduced charge means a reduced charge. A final judgment is for the judge to decide, not an LEO or Lawyer. This isn't a perception based game, it's the law. He's hanging onto anything. Which I can't fault him for, in the end, he is not a lawyer.

To make matters even worse I was added to the denial database because of this so he will have to clear that out.

He says "I wouldn't go and try to buy anything right at this point". Kind of makes me want to make a stop on my way home.

Oh, and there is no NH state PIN system. [rofl]
 
eColi said:
Also, once I explained he must not be reading an accurate docket and where he was probably mistaken he quickly changed his tone. Now he was talking about how he has called other individuals in past about this same mistake...
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I'd be curious to hear from these other individuals. The agent with whom you are dealing cannot be the only one rescinding approvals for people who are not or, at least up to this point, were not prohibited persons. This is begging for an investigative story.
 
DispositionMatrix said:
I'd be curious to hear from these other individuals. The agent with whom you are dealing cannot be the only one rescinding approvals for people who are not or, at least up to this point, were not prohibited persons. This is begging for an investigative story.
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Right! From my understanding, my paperwork came across his desk and he had legal look over and they advised I was a PP. Clearly, their legal team needs a good pair of bifocals to properly read dockets or whatever information they are reading. Maybe even pick up the phone and verify with the local municipality?


When all said and done that is ultimately where this information originates from, the local municipalities.


Believe me, if not resolved shortly, I will be escalating to his superior. Letting him finish his lunch.
 
namedpipes said:
For 20 years I've never made a purchase where there was NOT a 15 - 20 minute delay while they looked more closely at my record, followed by a proceed. I never had to wait a couple days, but never had a seamless transaction either.

I now have an FFL and happened to need a 10-22 so my son could attend an Appleseed. It was just more convenient to buy it on my LTC at another shop and not keep a "used" rifle on the bound book. The NICS approval was instantaneous. I think even the clerk was surprised. On this single data sample I extrapolate that the high scrutiny given the FFL process flagged my NICS identity in some way that cleared me right away.

So, eColi, what have you got to lose? Get an FFL and see what happens.
Click to expand...
I have an FFL and have been delayed for the last dozen or so purchases.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 

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