allen-1
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On the flip side in your opinion do any weak hiring processes contribute to some of these issues. Specifically physical standards required for the job. If you look at a part of that video the cop that had the taser taken away from him got absolutely manhandled by the guy. I fully get it. It’s not easy to subdue someone who doesn’t want to be subdued. But I seem to remember growing up most cops were physically intimidating. I work construction and see some of the details we get and think to myself short of shooting me what the hell is that cop going to do to me or anyone else.I think what some people who aren't cops don't understand it this:
- Some people resist arrest or fight just to put on a show, these people typically won't take it too far and most times they get taken into custody safely.
- Some people resist because they are raised and taught to have a EFF the police mentality. These can go either way.
- Some people are hardened criminals that will do ANYTHING to not get arrested... ANYTHING. Some of them have weapons, some of them are great at fighting, some of them are on PCP. These situations are extremely dangerous. They come in all colors shapes and sizes and you don't know they are this type of person until shit has already gone sideways.
As a cop, once you have dealt with the 3rd type of person enough times, you begin to realize you kind of have to assume it's possible the person you are dealing with may be in this category. You know MOST people aren't like this but when someone starts fighting you can't help but think about that time you were fighting and handcuffing a guy who was reaching for multiple knives he had stashed on him and later found out he was a serial killer.
I'm sure some of you are rolling your eyes at that last sentence... well, shit is real out there people. I have dealt with some genuinely evil bastards, most cops with any time on have also. So when someone starts fighting you, you sometimes have to meet their violence with equal or greater violence
Probation can only be revoked by a judge. It might be more-or-less automatic depending on the venue and the charges, but police can't just declare someone's probation to be over and throw them in prison.
On the flip side in your opinion do any weak hiring processes contribute to some of these issues. Specifically physical standards required for the job. If you look at a part of that video the cop that had the taser taken away from him got absolutely manhandled by the guy. I fully get it. It’s not easy to subdue someone who doesn’t want to be subdued. But I seem to remember growing up most cops were physically intimidating. I work construction and see some of the details we get and think to myself short of shooting me what the hell is that cop going to do to me or anyone else.
On the flip side in your opinion do any weak hiring processes contribute to some of these issues. Specifically physical standards required for the job. If you look at a part of that video the cop that had the taser taken away from him got absolutely manhandled by the guy. I fully get it. It’s not easy to subdue someone who doesn’t want to be subdued. But I seem to remember growing up most cops were physically intimidating. I work construction and see some of the details we get and think to myself short of shooting me what the hell is that cop going to do to me or anyone else.
Absolutely, I think it plays a factor. I was actually just talking about this a while ago with a guy in my unit. We have some guys and girls on the job that are like 150 pounds (or less) soaking wet. We have other guys that are so out of shape they look like a bag of milk. If I was a criminal and a midget and a fat guy were trying to arrest me I would consider fighting and running.
I'm not a big guy by any means. I'm 5'8" and 220. I need to get that down to about 200 though. I wrestled in high school, was in the Marines for a long time, been in my share of fights, I'm much faster than I look... I can handle myself. One of the guys in my unit is like 6'3 250, he played division 2 linebacker in college and absolutely looks the part. People most definitely react differently when he is around. They rarely ever run from him, they very rarely ever fight and people typically are more compliant when he gives them an order.... So yeah, size matters for sure.
But, it's illegal to discriminate against someone so we have cops that are 5'3 120 and we have others with a 50 inch waist who can't run 25 feet
@Picton I don't have the answer. As you said equal opportunity isn't going anywhere and we can't discriminate. But people most definitely react differently when there is a cop with an intimidating physical presence there. I've seen it many times.
Maybe a reverse affirmative action situation. For every cop hired that's under 5'10" they have to hire 2 that are 6'2" or taller.
I do think we should have an annual physical fitness test though. Some of the guys and girls I work with are disgustingly fat and it really is a safety hazard. If I start chasing someone and my only backup is a fat guy that weighs 293 I'm basically by myself, there is no way he is keeping up with the foot Chase and if and when he shows up he will be useless because he is winded.
@Picton I don't have the answer. As you said equal opportunity isn't going anywhere and we can't discriminate. But people most definitely react differently when there is a cop with an intimidating physical presence there. I've seen it many times.
Maybe a reverse affirmative action situation. For every cop hired that's under 5'10" they have to hire 2 that are 6'2" or taller.
I do think we should have an annual physical fitness test though. Some of the guys and girls I work with are disgustingly fat and it really is a safety hazard. If I start chasing someone and my only backup is a fat guy that weighs 293 I'm basically by myself, there is no way he is keeping up with the foot Chase and if and when he shows up he will be useless because he is winded.
Yes, you should definitely continue to judge an entire group because of the actions of a very small percentage.
While it seems unfair to judge everyone by a small number of people it seems in your previous post you do just that. If you go 100% hard because the person you are dealing with may possibly be a violent murderer who plans to kill you how can you complain when the average citizen treats you like you are about to lie, cheat, steal and do whatever you can to ruin their life by abusing the legal system to f*** them over? Some cops will do that, and while my next interaction might be with a guy like you who is not out to ruin me, there is a chance it is the other guy who for whatever reason is out to destroy my life and because he is a cop has every tool available to make that happen.
I think you answered your own question. Everything can’t be about discrimination but certain people have made it that way unfortunately. We are in an all around shitty situation as it is because of that. People have gone way too far with it now and your seeing all kinds of effed up things happening because we’ve so far out stretched the meaning of the word. I mean I think any reasonable person can understand if a job requires you to be xy and z in order to properly do the job and your not. Well then you don’t get the job. Is that really what discrimination is? I watched a video of the second cop walking out of some building in plain clothes and all I could think of was beaver cleaver. Unfortunately I don’t think the discrimination mentality isn’t going away any time soon.@Picton I don't have the answer. As you said equal opportunity isn't going anywhere and we can't discriminate. But people most definitely react differently when there is a cop with an intimidating physical presence there. I've seen it many times.
Maybe a reverse affirmative action situation. For every cop hired that's under 5'10" they have to hire 2 that are 6'2" or taller.
I do think we should have an annual physical fitness test though. Some of the guys and girls I work with are disgustingly fat and it really is a safety hazard. If I start chasing someone and my only backup is a fat guy that weighs 293 I'm basically by myself, there is no way he is keeping up with the foot Chase and if and when he shows up he will be useless because he is winded.
A fair point. I think the difference is when I do it the person has already made a decision to fight me. So I don't treat everyone I see that way. Only the ones that are trying to fight.
So if I'm talking with any random citizen I'll be more polite and respectful than they are being. If they want to bring the level of respect down to slinging insults and talking shit. I'll bring my level down, but I'll still be more respectful than them.
If someone is resisting I'll use physical force to try and gain control, no punches, kicks etc. Basically compliance techniques to gain control for handcuffing. (This is a conscious decision they made)
If someone starts fighting me (a conscious decision they made) I, because I've had to fight with some very dangerous people in the past, have to assume they are very dangerous so I will try to end the fight as quickly and safely as possible.
If someone doesn't want to risk getting hurt they shouldn't start fighting me. It's pretty simple.
If you want to be the first guy and have a conversation I'll talk to you all day and I'll be more polite to you than you are being to me.
When I first became a military policeman my Staff Sergeant taught me 2 things that have served me VERY well throughout my career there and here.
1. Always start with "sir". Basically meaning I start the politeness immediately, and if the conversation devolves into insults, it's because they brought it there.
2. Ask, tell, make. Meaning if I'm giving an order to someone I ask them first, then tell them, then make them. So if I have to force someone to do something I have always given them 2 chances first.
To date I have had 0 use of force complaints and 1 rudeness complaint... But that was from a Karen so I don't even consider that real.
That all seems reasonable, I mostly have a gripe with the seeming general attitude from police of "I'm not a bad guy, why are you treating me like I am" and for me anyway it comes down to the threat that a cop who feels like it can ruin someone's life in an instant if they are not given the level of immediate deference they demand. This is not a shot at you or anyone else here, but the amount of power a cop has to destroy someone leaves me in the position of not wanting to interact with them at all. Instead of what might be a polite conversation I am forced to not engage on the off chance that the guy I am speaking to is one of the bad ones. Now that cop who may very well be a perfectly fine person is left thinking "What a douche, why does it seem like everyone hates us?". It adds to the us vs them issues and without some kind of change just makes it harder for the two groups to ever come together.
You are officially the smartest mothereffer in the room. I could not agree more.That all seems reasonable, I mostly have a gripe with the seeming general attitude from police of "I'm not a bad guy, why are you treating me like I am" and for me anyway it comes down to the threat that a cop who feels like it can ruin someone's life in an instant if they are not given the level of immediate deference they demand. This is not a shot at you or anyone else here, but the amount of power a cop has to destroy someone leaves me in the position of not wanting to interact with them at all. Instead of what might be a polite conversation I am forced to not engage on the off chance that the guy I am speaking to is one of the bad ones. Now that cop who may very well be a perfectly fine person is left thinking "What a douche, why does it seem like everyone hates us?". It adds to the us vs them issues and without some kind of change just makes it harder for the two groups to ever come together.
@Picton But people most definitely react differently when there is a cop with an intimidating physical presence there. I've seen it many times.
Who knew? All this time I thought we just had to vote and write letters to our CongressmanLoot, riot, burn. Apparently that's the winning strategy.
Shit, riot loot and burn, you'll get a new federal holiday!Who knew? All this time I thought we just had to vote and write letters to our Congressman
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was easy to subdue someone. I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone who has trained in martial arts, and saw tons of missed opportunities to stop that fight early.I don’t know if you’ve ever tried it, but it’s a lot harder than it looks. Seriously. I’m no slouch when it comes to fighting and I’ve needed all the help I could get before trying to get 16yr old girls into cuffs. It’s not like you can just punch the crap out of them into unconsciousness to get cuffs on.
You’re trying to do it with the least amount of force possible. Trying to do it without breaking any of their limbs, which is fairly easy to do if you go too hard on them, trying to do it while being filmed by 10 people standing around you in a circle screaming at you, and worrying if you’re going to get kicked in the face or stabbed in the back and they are using every bit of strength that they have against you.
It would be a lot easier to get them cuffed IF it’s just a downright beat down because you’re actually afraid for your life for whatever reason, but that’s a lot less common than a typical arrest where the suspect is just resisting physically and not violently.
I think anybody thats ever been a cop, or a medical type job where you have to subdue patients or juvi’s with the least amount of force and trying not to bruise them up too bad will tell you it can be a real MF, it’s not like tv, not even close.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was easy to subdue someone. I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone who has trained in martial arts, and saw tons of missed opportunities to stop that fight early.
What I think I should have said was something more like, "they should be trained to subdue someone better."
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was easy to subdue someone. I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone who has trained in martial arts, and saw tons of missed opportunities to stop that fight early.
What I think I should have said was something more like, "they should be trained to subdue someone better."