You don't get it. Do you.
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You don't get it. Do you.
Therein lies at least one of the problems....Much like proactive gun owners, there are too few proactive FFL's willing to out themselves out there and get things done. Kudos to you for being one of the few...![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
How many FFLs, as small as we are, are willing to give up that much money? Most won't even make the time to have a meeting about their own industry...especially the big ones....There's only about 120 of us in the entire state, and that includes all guys without an active storefront or the tiny little shops. Even if everyone was fully onboard, it's not enough to make a difference at the State House. And we're conservatives...I'm pretty sure the metal detectors on Beacon Hill are set on "stun" if they detect one of us trying to penetrate their sanctum.
Yes he to whom you refer is still president.
Yep, you're right. There aren't enough of us to make a difference and there's definitely not enough grease. Unfortunately, the lessons of years past have been to keep your head down and watch out for yourself. Getting involved in trying to help the community at large usually only ends in trouble and heartache.
No. He doesn't.
The Approved Firearms Roster is part of an EOPS regulation enabled by a law, specifically MGL Chapter 140 Section 123. The AG's regulations have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE APPROVED FIREARMS ROSTER. Which is why the third paragraph of the Approved Firearms Roster reads:
Which people would know if they would actually read the approved firearms roster.
Then why are the cops allowed to carry them!!!!!! When in the world is some organization in that state going to take this to court? You can't have 2 friggin' conflicting laws. Either one one or the other has to be thrown out!!!!!!!!!
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Man would I hate to be the poor sob who just saved up enough birthday money or graduation money, and went out this weekend to buy a gun........ and get in the trap.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
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Man would I hate to be the poor sob who just saved up enough birthday money or graduation money, and went out this weekend to buy a gun........ and get in the trap.
Why, there is NO PENALTY for the buyer.
The state could confiscate the gun (as evidence), just like they could confiscate all of yours or mine on any pretext, but no crime falls on the buyer, ONLY THE SELLER (DEALER) is legally culpable.
There aren't 2 conflicting statutes. There is one statute and two regulations. They don't "conflict" per se. You have to meet both.
I think the buyer can be in trouble to because you cant claim ignorance. Its your responsibility as a MA license holder to know what you own or want to purchase is MA legal. I believe.
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You believe wrong!
Yup.
Cluster F, read the regulations. Please. The AG's regulations are here: http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=cagoter...t&f=government_Regulations_940CMR16&csid=Cago
If you do, you'll see wording like "It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer ..." 940 CMR 16.00 concerns what a firearms dealer can sell, not what you can buy. The penalties are on the seller, not the buyer.
FalArAk
NES Member
ZOMG!!!I'm selling all my guns!!!!!!
I can't sell them to a dealer,because he might be in on it !!
I can't sell them FTF because the other guy might be in on it !!!!
WTF!!!???
I can't sell them to a dealer,because he might be in on it !!
I can't sell them FTF because the other guy might be in on it !!!!
WTF!!!???
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Man would I hate to be the poor sob who just saved up enough birthday money or graduation money, and went out this weekend to buy a gun........ and get in the trap.
Chances are nothing would happen to the buyer. These "AG stings" have happened before and the buyer was never contacted, except possibly by the dealer to plea to the customer to get the gun back. The customer has no legal obligation to do so. The only reason to ever return a gun to a dealer under that circumstance is if you have a personal business relationship with the dealer and you want to save him some grief.
If you actually read the laws/regs, the person that buys the "non compliant" gun is supposedly the victim of a crime.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
The other thing is, if it's a real sting the AGs office will use a pawn with an LTC to buy something, which leaves the typical consumer out of band in the whole thing anyways.
-Mike
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CF, there is at least one dealer who makes a habit of "terrorizing" customers (or those he hopes to dupe into becoming customers) by telling them that they are subject to arrest for mere purchase/possession of a non-EOPS Listed handgun from a dealer, that they must return that gun to whichever dealer sold it to them IMMEDIATELY to avoid prosecution.
He's an out and out liar! It's a sad attempt to make himself look good and gain business rather than act as an honest businessman. [Let's dissect this for a moment to prove it is a lie. If the act of buying the gun is illegal, returning it will NOT make the original act "go away", will it? That's like a bank robber returning to the scene of the crime and returning the money and then saying "no harm, no foul, I just wiped out the crime by doing this" . . . you can't "unrob" a bank either!]
Read the MGL referenced above with penalties and read the CMR for AG Regs too (even though NOT relevant to this discussion) for the penalties. Hopefully it will be clear to you that anyone telling you that the buyer can be charged/jailed/fined in either case is full of shit and someone to be avoided at all costs.
I stay scrupulously on the right side of the law, however I do NOT carry around a copy of the EOPS List and I have no idea which handguns are declared (by the mfr) as AG Regs compliant. If I see something for sale in a shop and I want it, I'll buy it. If they know (and care) that it's not legal to sell, I expect the shop to tell me that and then there is no sale. It's NOT my job to know what they can sell or not.
He's an out and out liar! It's a sad attempt to make himself look good and gain business rather than act as an honest businessman. [Let's dissect this for a moment to prove it is a lie. If the act of buying the gun is illegal, returning it will NOT make the original act "go away", will it? That's like a bank robber returning to the scene of the crime and returning the money and then saying "no harm, no foul, I just wiped out the crime by doing this" . . . you can't "unrob" a bank either!]
Read the MGL referenced above with penalties and read the CMR for AG Regs too (even though NOT relevant to this discussion) for the penalties. Hopefully it will be clear to you that anyone telling you that the buyer can be charged/jailed/fined in either case is full of shit and someone to be avoided at all costs.
I stay scrupulously on the right side of the law, however I do NOT carry around a copy of the EOPS List and I have no idea which handguns are declared (by the mfr) as AG Regs compliant. If I see something for sale in a shop and I want it, I'll buy it. If they know (and care) that it's not legal to sell, I expect the shop to tell me that and then there is no sale. It's NOT my job to know what they can sell or not.
Sell them to me, I'm not in on it. I'll give You $.25 on every $10.00.
FalArAk
NES Member
The fact that you are saying you aren't "in on it",leads me to believe you work for the person who is.
What if I am "in on it",how would I know ?
Maybe we should all just go to gun stores and buy every complaint handgun there is,maybe the OP can recommend a safe store to make these purchases.
Man I didn't mean to start a chit storm. Just saying with my bad luck I'd be trying to buy the "evidence" gun at the same time as the sting. After I pay my money BATF walks in and takes the gun.
Geez lighten up guys
Geez lighten up guys
The fact that we even have to think about this is pure insanity. The idea that a state entity would go after a legit business on what is basically some piddling little technicality for the sole purpose of exacting revenge and pushing an agenda that the entire country (mostly) does not want should highlight how far away from normal we are and how much it has become an us vs. them situation.
If this were almost any other state and any other issue the OP would be laughed off the board as a DU troll or some other nutter; but here in MA the laws are so twisted, the politicians so out of touch and basically corrupt, that this is real concern.
And we can't even vote them out of this hellhole.
If this were almost any other state and any other issue the OP would be laughed off the board as a DU troll or some other nutter; but here in MA the laws are so twisted, the politicians so out of touch and basically corrupt, that this is real concern.
And we can't even vote them out of this hellhole.
I'm sure Croakley is pissed at us for backing McKenna so heavily and wants to celebrate her re-election victory by sticking it up our ass.
It wouldn't be the BATFE because there is no violation of federal laws involved.
It'll be the AG's personal MSP Goon Squad. Croakley uses them to do her dirty work because she has the feds busy doing the real job she's being paid for, such as going after corrupt politicians.
No one here disagrees that the laws and regulations are horrible. What I, and several others, are doing is trying to clarify the current regulations for those who don't understand them. There have been more than a few posts in this thread that are factually incorrect.
It behooves us to understand the laws and regulations that are currently in effect.
Thats why there are stickied threads with facts, here there are people putting all sorts of facts and some opiniions out there. Someone new to MA gun law wouldn't learn a thing from this thread.
