Bass Pro-On the wrong side of the AG already?

[Ripach]

I see your logic but I fail to see how this particular incident is anywhere near
resembling the severity of what you describe above. A hack electrician
doing bad work can get someones house burned down. A guy with an
LTC-A getting a glock he wasn't "supposed" to doesn't present the same
level of "community danger" (if we're going to use that tack), unless of
course you believe the AG's assertions that somehow a Glock has supernatural
powers in terms of its "extra" dangerousness to a consumer.

I agree that the severity is different with the exception being if BassPro missed a Hi-cap and some customer who doesn't know any better becomes an instant felon (IMHO just as bad as my house burning down).

Also you can apply my comparison to just about any business (A license of some type is required for most)I just chose to use professions people tend to associate with licenses. Same applies to restaurants/bars, hairdresser/barber, the list goes on, but the point remains the same.

 

[crak]

C-pher,
If the owner of BP is willing take on these ridiculous laws, I for one would patronize his stores before any others, even at higher prices. I feel it would be a small price to pay.

+1million

I've been a little slow on the uptake for all of this, but will be putting that exact sentiment in a letter by the end of the weekend.

 

[Twigg]

 

[M1911]

Translation: "I knew they would get in trouble but I lobbed an
extra grenade in their direction just to make sure. "
-Mike

Actually, I think they were going to get in trouble sooner or later and that the sooner it occurred, the less guns they would have sold, and the less trouble they would be in. If you remember, the AG's regs include fines on a per gun basis.

Btw, I've never been to the gun shop in question nor do I know the dealer.

 

[Executive]

Just hypothetical,

A licensed Electrician/Plumber/Contractor (insert your occupation here), knows of a person/entity operating in the same business without said license. Should they report the person to the proper authorities or would that make them a "RAT"?
Take it a step farther and say the latter business is licensed but is routinely ignoring applicable codes or permitting to increase profit margin at the potential expense of the customers safety. Would we boycott the tradesman who turned them in?

Some food for thought.

Good effort here but the analogy would only hold true if BPS was selling firearms without an FFL.

As for a licensee ignoring codes, we have the Authority Having Jurisdiction (Local Building/Electrical/Plumbing Inspector) following up to confirm code compliance. After losing a job bid to a questionable competitor, I have followed up with a call to the customer, (never dropped a dime to the AHJ) just to make sure that my bid was an "apples to apples" comparison, and that permits and code compliance is part of the job. This has helped me over the years to fine tune my estimating skills.

If you feel that BPS was trying to "increase profit margin at the expense of public safety" by sellings non-AG approved firearms, you have fallen into the AG trap. I suspect that this is not the case.

 

[MikeD]

I'm curious...did those who bought the new Glocks at BPS know that it was illegal for the dealer to sell them and went ahead and bought them anyway?

My first and last post on this subject.

 

[Scrivener]

Point is, there is a lot of finger pointing and name calling and it just stupid childish jealousy or nervousness on the part of some people. To quote someone smart, "why can't we all just get along"

With all due respect, I don't think Rodney King qualifies as "smart." Not even moderately competent.

BPS had an opportunity to get at least Glocks cleared by the AG. It is a major retailer and could - indeed, should - have had Glock's active assistance in the process; possibly even Bob Kraft's. Given that a Glock employee was at the EOPS hearing last May and a certain mod hereon claims to be in regular communication with said plastic pistol giant, their combined energy might have made the new AG amenable to reason.

Instead, BPS either willfully or ignorantly blew its opportunity. Neither warrants sympathy.

If BPS shut down its entire gun department, the store would survive, even prosper. However, its error cost the rest of us a chance to improve our situation.

 

[Moderator]

I'm curious...did those who bought the new Glocks at BPS know that it was illegal for the dealer to sell them and went ahead and bought them anyway?

My first and last post on this subject.

Yes! Some of them new they were not MA compliant or met the AG's consumer protection regulations. I know a couple of people who bought some.

 

[Moderator]

However, its error cost the rest of us a chance to improve our situation.

Is this fact or opinion?

 

[Admin]

Is Ted's last name Zumbo?

I don't feel sorry for him, he made his bed now he can lay in it.

I think his message that was posted is complete bullshit and is nothing more than a feeble attempt at damage control.

I honestly don't think I've ever heard anything good about Ted, ever...

Ted I hope you read this, you're a chump.

 

[Moderator]

Ted I hope you read this, you're a chump.

He will, he is.

 

[drgrant]

Actually, I think they were going to get in trouble sooner or later and that the sooner it occurred, the less guns they would have sold, and the less trouble they would be in. If you remember, the AG's regs include fines on a per gun basis.

On the flip side if they were going to get sacked for huge
amounts of cash over it, might make challenging its legitimacy
a lot more appetizing for BPS, in a kind of sick, twisted
way. It certainly would increase the seriousness level of
the case, and there would be more chips on the table.
Remember, BPS isn't a tiny entity, like one's local gun store
might be. The smaller guys fold early because the buyout
the AG usually offers them (after negotiation to having an anal
probe applied from the AG's office, I'm sure) looks cheap
compared to lawyering up for a full blown court battle.

I mean, thinking critically about it, why is it that the AG even
offered buyouts if he/she hates gun stores so much? Why not
punish them to the fullest extent? I think part of it is the AG
-knows- their regs are shit and don't want to get hammered in
court over it. (without a deal, the dealer would be that much
more tempted to go to court, if he's going to lose everything
anyways.... ) The AG probably realizes that even in this state
they might end up with a Judge/Jury who eventually decide that
the regulations are indeed, bullshit. It's less risky for the AG
to simply intimidate someone into complying. The office operates
in a very snarky way, so this only conforms with their MO.

-Mike

 

[Scrivener]

Is Ted's last name Zumbo?

I don't feel sorry for him, he made his bed now he can lay in it.

I think his message that was posted is complete bullshit and is nothing more than a feeble attempt at damage control.

I honestly don't think I've ever heard anything good about Ted, ever...

Ted I hope you read this, you're a chump.

His actions in this instance are, shall we say, less than wholly altruistic.

However, he did not get to be the # 5 dealer in the state by being an A-hole (compare sales to a certain Shrewsbury dealer known for being one).

Moreover, Ted established and ran the VERY successful action pistol program at Mansfield, now taken over by one of those competitors and superbly continued at Independent. Ted also runs an excellent training program.

While you, being in NH, may not be aware of those facts, his store's thread under the DEALERS section regularly receives positive posts. This being your forum, you certainly ARE aware of them.

 

[Admin]

With all due respect, I don't think Rodney King qualifies as "smart." Not even moderately competent.

BPS had an opportunity to get at least Glocks cleared by the AG. It is a major retailer and could - indeed, should - have had Glock's active assistance in the process; possibly even Bob Kraft's. Given that a Glock employee was at the EOPS hearing last May and a certain mod hereon claims to be in regular communication with said plastic pistol giant, their combined energy might have made the new AG amenable to reason.

Instead, BPS either willfully or ignorantly blew its opportunity. Neither warrants sympathy.

If BPS shut down its entire gun department, the store would survive, even prosper. However, its error cost the rest of us a chance to improve our situation.

Keith,

I don't know why you get so pissy when these gun makers don't bow down to this communist state's AG office. Why the hell should they?

We have gun owners here who don't join GOAL, gun shop owners here who send each other down the river, a decimated LTC population, and a governor who wants to pass more anti-gun laws, doesn't sound like a very lucrative market.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

might make challenging its legitimacy a lot more appetizing for BPS,

A large potential fine would make it very easy for the AG's office to obtain a consent decree on it's terms.

 

[dreppucci007]

I don't feel sorry for him, he made his bed now he can lay in it.

+1 Yup

I think his message that was posted is complete bullshit and is nothing more than a feeble attempt at damage control.

+1 Feeble is being kind

I honestly don't think I've ever heard anything good about Ted, ever...

+1 Me neither

Ted I hope you read this, you're a chump.

+1 Yup

 

[Junglerott]

Ted I hope you read this, you're a chump.

No derek, he is a Major Chump. Salute!!!!!!!

 

[Admin]

While you, being in NH, may not be aware of those facts, his store's thread under the DEALERS section regularly receives positive posts. This being your forum, you certainly ARE aware of them.

You don't know him that well then... We will see how that thread does in the future. I'll probably have to make sure it doesn't get pruned because of inactivity.

 

[50 BMG]

Thanksgiving

This is really getting hard to follow.
1. BPS sold some firearms that were not Ma. OK, allegedly. Until any of us see the actual invoice it is alleged. Cant wait for the lawyer to chime in
2. Unknown person(s) calls someone, AG, EOPS etc and reports what's going on
2.a. Posts almost shut down NES server ( made that up)
3. Local dealer responds via a second party
4. Lawyer weighs in on subject
5. Great entertainment!!!! but sad that it had to happen.

Remember folks, we are all gun owners, lets enjoy our holiday and go hunting or to the range. This issue/topic will be here when we get back.

To everyone who posted, thanks it's been a real learning experience.

Wishing you and yours a great Thanksgiving.

 

[Scrivener]

Keith,

I don't know why you get so pissy when these gun makers don't bow down to this communist state's AG office. Why the hell should they?

We have gun owners here who don't join GOAL, gun shop owners here who send each other down the river, a decimated LTC population, and a governor who wants to pass more anti-gun laws, doesn't sound like a very lucrative market.

Many haven't for precisely the market reasons you just identified. However, Glock DID make an effort and, at least in May, appeared interested in renewing its effort to get back into what is still a lucrative market. New Glocks would make many people happy, especially the IDPA and USPSA Production crowd.

By allying with a major marketer like BPS, Glock could have brought more power into play. IF - again, IF - it failed to seize the opportunity presented by BPS' entry into Mass., that is Glock's mistake.

That's not being "pissy;" that's an objective assessment of the situation.

 

[Admin]

That's not being "pissy;" that's an objective assessment of the situation.

I apologize for using pissy it wasn't called for.

 

[kevin9]

His actions in this instance are, shall we say, less than wholly altruistic.

There's the understatement of the day.

However, he did not get to be the # 5 dealer in the state by being an complete A-hole (compare sales to a certain Shrewsbury dealer known for being one).

There I fixed it for you.

Moreover, Ted established and ran the VERY successful action pistol program at Mansfield, now taken over by one of those competitors and superbly continued at Independent. Ted also runs an excellent training program.

While you, being in NH, may not be aware of those facts, his store's thread under the DEALERS section regularly receives positive posts. This being your forum, you certainly ARE aware of them.

Nobody has said that he's not done some good things in the past. I'm sure Mr. Zumbo wrote some mighty fine gun articles before his "little indiscretion". None of that excuses what Ted did.

The only question now as far as I am concerned is what will he do in the future. Zumbo made considerable efforts toward amends and showed much evidence of a change of opinion: Personally I think he's gone a long way to redeeming himself. I don't see that here (yet?).

 

[Scrivener]

You don't know him that well then...

It is you who are on the low side of the learning curve on that subject.

In point of fact, I've been dealing w/Ted for about 8 or 9 years; since he was operating out of his home. I also competed regularly in his events at Mansfield (back then my eyes and legs still worked).

While I've had one, maybe two major issues with him during that time, matters were resolved. All in all, I've found him more than fair to deal with and committed to protecting dealers in this benighted state.

 

[Moderator]

His actions in this instance are, shall we say, less than wholly altruistic.

+1

However, he did not get to be the # 5 dealer in the state by being an A-hole (compare sales to a certain Shrewsbury dealer known for being one).

There are many successful a**h***s in this world. I am sure I don't have to tell you that.(FWIW I am not calling you one of them) I also can assure you that when I worked for him I saw things that most customers did not. When I left Ted on bad terms, I decided not to talk/post shit about him, although I very well could have. I washed my hands with Ted and his company almost 2 years ago. I lost almost all respect for him then. So I guess whatever respect was left is gone now. I will say I do miss the customers and I still love the family I worked with.

Moreover, Ted established and ran the VERY successful action pistol program at Mansfield, now taken over by one of those competitors and superbly continued at Independent.

People have been complaining about the absence of this activity for years.

Ted also runs an excellent training program.

Agreed!

 

[MassMark]

All in all, I've found him more than fair to deal with and committed to protecting dealers in this benighted state.

But just not Bass Pro Shops?

 

[Moderator]

Mark gets a point for that one.

 

[Emoto]

I've been in the shop in question a few times. It is a nice shop and the help, including the owner, is friendly.

Having worked for small retail businesses earlier in my working life, I know that some will do almost anything to prevent a competitor from gaining advantage. I suspect that is what happened here. Bass Pro is the equivalent of a Home Depot and Ted's place is the local hardware store.

Looked at that way, I find it hard to get too worked up about him dropping a dime on Bass Pro.

I absolutely loathe the ridiculous AG "consumer protection" rules and would like to see Coakley become her own person and step out of Reilly's shadow and think for herself on the issue. She could get rid of the whole handgun approval mechanism and save the state some money. Cutting the cost of government is a good thing. C'mon, Martha, think for yourself!

 

[Admin]

It is you who are on the low side of the learning curve on that subject.

I'm sorry again you are mistaken.

 

[drgrant]

I agree that the severity is different with the exception being if BassPro missed a Hi-cap and some customer who doesn't know any better becomes an instant felon (IMHO just as bad as my house burning down).

I would NOT want to be a felon either, but I'd rather deal
with disposing (or hopefully, refusing at point of purchase) of a
piece of unmarked felonious plastic/metal than have my house burn
down. (and possibly have people die, etc). As mastershake would say, "that's a little huge".

I think c-pher covered this earlier- if what he says is
correct, BPS rifled through the guns they were selling to insure
that none of them went out with hi-cap mags. And
further, even if they did it, by accident, they certainly wouldn't
be the first and last to do it. S+W has done it to members on
this board several times, because the guys filling the orders figure
they were doing someone a favor by giving them normal mags, or
they ran out of cripplemags. Yeah it's bad, and S+W should
definitely KNOW BETTER... and I agree that it is BAD if a store
turns someone into a felon by accident, but I think anyone in
this state buying a handgun/rifle would do themselves a favor to
be apprised of the more drastic laws here, like how the mag ban
works, etc, before purchasing anything so regulated. IMO
people that "don't know any better" should probably refrain
from buying anything gun related (at least while they're a
subject of MA) lest they dig themselves a very deep legal
grave caused by ignorance of a pile of crappy laws. It's to
the degree that any new LTC/FID holder should be given a
pamphlet that says "Before you buy something, do you REALLY
know how f*cked up the laws in this state are? " with like a FAQ
covering the common issues. When other people move here,
and you start telling them about the gun laws, they act as though
you're from another planet. A lot of people are not used to it
being that big of a deal overall. Most states don't even have 20%
of the crap law that MA does regarding firearms.

Also you can apply my comparison to just about any business (A license of some type is required for most)I just chose to use professions people tend to associate with licenses. Same applies to restaurants/bars, hairdresser/barber, the list goes on, but the point remains the same.

I think BPS has an FFL and an MA dealer's license, if they
didn't, people probably would have been hauled off to
jail.

As (executive?) noted, I think yeah, it'd be WAY different if BPS was
doing something really nasty/nefarious, like not checking licenses properly,
selling guns to felons, or any heinous shit like that. That is the kind of
thing that when it does happen, makes life harder for every other dealer,
and to some extent, every other gun owner. That isn't what happened
here. The reality is their "crime" was the equivalent of selling someone a
tagless mattress. Oh noes! the sky is falling! Someone purchased an
(otherwise legal to possess) gun that they weren't supposed to!


-Mike

 

[50 BMG]

+1 for Derek