bedstand gun illegal?

[Hanwei]

I would actually say that is a great reason to keep the gun as close and accessible as possible. What would you do if she was an actual intruder, ask her to wait while you opened your safe? This is also why I do not turn off all the lights, because otherwise you can't see shit.

I keep mine locked up in the Mini Vault right by my bed (as I said earlier)... my head doesn't even have to leave the pillow... 2.5 seconds to have the Glock 19 in my hand...

More importantly... the 19 has a Streamlight TLR-1 on it just for the purpose you mentioned above. So I can light up the room immediately to ID the person entering. 80 lumens is plenty of light to 1) illuminate the room for ID... 2) to blind the person coming in to give me an extra second or two.

I guess a flashlight stored along with the gun in the safe is fine for these purposes too... but that's 2 things to get out of the safe instead of one.

H

 

[WayneWong]

Keep a 1000 lb safe on some rollers. Fill it with an additional one or two hundred pounds of guns. Push it down the staircase if any intruders decide to climb up the stairs to your bedrooms. That way you've managed to eliminate the criminials and maintain strict compliance with the so called safe firearms storage laws.

 

[Hanwei]

Okay. I understand the particular law and verbage, blah, blah, blah.

I"m with Ken. The only time an LEO is going to come in my house and worry about the aforementioned "gun" is because I had to inflict serious bodily harm to another.

So. Do you secure the aforementioned weapon in the safe after said encounter and before the LEOs arrive?

And then I shutup and hopefully have my attorney present or on the way.

Am I missing something here?

my brain would tell me to take the magazine out, lock the slide open, empty the chamber, and leave it out in plain sight on a desk or bureau... so the police can immediately see that it's unloaded (this is, of course, after you've made sure there aren't any other BG's in your house). They're going to want the gun for evidence anyway... you might as well leave it out in "safe" mode rather than make the police nervous while you go retrieve your loaded gun from your safe.

But then again... I have no idea what a/my lawyer would tell me to do though. At that point, you've already shot someone in self defense... you don't want to do anything after which could hurt you in court... especially in MA!

H

 

[OnTheRoad]

I keep a dial combo lockbox next to the bed - with one of the tumblers one digit off from open. In the amount of time an intruder would need to get in the house, navigate noisily through the piles of clutter (courtesy of my kids, any intruder would probably break his neck tripping by the time he got upstairs) and get to the top floor is plenty of time to roll out of bed, click one tumbler one position, and be ready to go - with concealment behind the bed.

Thinking about it now, I guess maybe a reading light with a rotary switch in the cord pointed towards the doorway might be a good idea as well, light up the target - errr, intruder, without blinding yourself in the process.

 

[dbhn]

I keep a dial combo lockbox next to the bed - with one of the tumblers one digit off from open. In the amount of time an intruder would need to get in the house, navigate noisily through the piles of clutter (courtesy of my kids, any intruder would probably break his neck tripping by the time he got upstairs) and get to the top floor is plenty of time to roll out of bed, click one tumbler one position, and be ready to go - with concealment behind the bed.

Thinking about it now, I guess maybe a reading light with a rotary switch in the cord pointed towards the doorway might be a good idea as well, light up the target - errr, intruder, without blinding yourself in the process.

I use a similar method in other areas but not next to bed. Reason being is that you likely need light to open this set up. Even if you think you can click the tumbler just one number over these can often get messed up, especially in the state you'd be in during a break in. There are many safes out there you can open without even looking at it, never mind seeing it. Mine is set to do all by feel, with no lights, and someone could sit there all day trying combos and never get in.

Also, I'd get a nice flashlight

 

[Len-2A Training]

my brain would tell me to take the magazine out, lock the slide open, empty the chamber, and leave it out in plain sight on a desk or bureau... so the police can immediately see that it's unloaded (this is, of course, after you've made sure there aren't any other BG's in your house).

H

Guaranteed "improper storage charge for that!

Clearing a house by yourself. Talk to experts (SWAT, etc.) but this is NOT a one-person job and not a smart thing to do. Don't go looking for trouble. As long as the Family is safely with you, keep all of you safe and wait for the cavalry (assuming you aren't in Boston or other place where it might take 3 hours for them to arrive).

 

[Admin]

Guaranteed "improper storage charge for that!

I doubt if there was a dead bad guy in your kitchen the PD would have a problem with you sitting at the table and a unloaded firearm on the counter.

At least that's the situation I thought we were talking about.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The only time an LEO is going to come in my house and worry about the aforementioned "gun" is because I had to inflict serious bodily harm to another.

. . .

Am I missing something here?

NOT necessarily!

We hope none of these things happen to anyone here or anyone we know, but . . .

- Heart attack! I vaguely recall a story where a guy had a heart attack, when the troops arrived they found one or more guns "improperly stored" (could be on a bedstand, attack happened while cleaning the guns, etc.). At any rate, after he was released from the hospital they arrested him on "improper storage" charges.

- Seizure, fire, other medical emergency, etc.

We don't plan these things and we may not be in a position to secure weapons prior to the cavalry arriving.

 

[Hanwei]

I doubt if there was a dead bad guy in your kitchen the PD would have a problem with you sitting at the table and a unloaded firearm on the counter.

At least that's the situation I thought we were talking about.

Yup...that's what I was picturing myself when I was posting above.

To what Len said... I would never leave it unattended. I would just sit/stand there with the gun unloaded near me and wait for police to arrive.

And you're right... searching the house would be a bad idea. I'd probably just sit in the bedroom and wait.

H

 

[Len-2A Training]

I doubt if there was a dead bad guy in your kitchen the PD would have a problem with you sitting at the table and a unloaded firearm on the counter.

At least that's the situation I thought we were talking about.

Derek, as much as I'd like to think you are right. Some chiefs that I know couldn't be trusted to make such a judgment. They'd use any opportunity to screw over the citizen.

See my later post on the heart attack. Don't recall any further details but do recall reading the story when it happened.

 

[FITH]

If you're behind the wheel of your car with your seat belt on, is it under your control if you're asleep? Nope. Neither is your firearm.

Don't be drunk or they will get you for DUI!!!

Explain that..drunk behind a wheel..asleep...

 

[Hanwei]

Derek, as much as I'd like to think you are right. Some chiefs that I know couldn't be trusted to make such a judgment. They'd use any opportunity to screw over the citizen.

See my later post on the heart attack. Don't recall any further details but do recall reading the story when it happened.

Len, what would you do in this situation after the shooting regarding the gun?

I guess one could unload it and store it back in the safe with the slide locked open. This way it comes out of the safe visually unloaded for the PD.

 

[dixidawg]

The only time an LEO is going to come in my house and worry about the aforementioned "gun" is because I had to inflict serious bodily harm to another.

What about a fire? You are woken in the middle of the night by your smoke alarm going off, and you smell smoke. Are you going to remember to grab your gun or will you be trying to get family OUT? Fire dept comes and police are in your house. They find a loaded, unsecured firearm. You got some splaining to do.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len, what would you do in this situation after the shooting regarding the gun?

I guess one could unload it and store it back in the safe with the slide locked open. This way it comes out of the safe visually unloaded for the PD.

Re-holster, locked slide back and empty IF and ONLY IF I'm convinced that there are no other potential threats present (unlikely as I'm not going to clear all rooms).

Otherwise, holstered and ready for any further potential threats.

 

[ateamrob]

I am with ateamrob on this.

I hear everyone clearly. But if my passive or non-passive alarm goes off, I got a loaded gun in my hand ready let rounds fly. I would hope the intruder would leave. Because with children in the house, I find it hard to believe a jury would find me guilty if he attacked me.

Its almost impossible to sneak up on me while sleeping. And a Leo is not going to sneak into my house and catch me asleep with the loaded gun next to me.

Personally, I do not practice this. I have a safe that I can open quickly. But if I did do this, no one would ever know.
__________________

Well all I know is everyone on this thread has brought up some real good points. Both points of view for that matter.

All I am going to say is that I have a duty to protect my family... not the stupid MA laws. I have locked safe in my dwelling and at all times when no one is home the weapons are locked and secured. But at night when we are sleeping EVERY SECOND counts and I would not be doing my duty to my family if I did not stay ready at all times. In todays society, you cant afford NOT TOO.... As I said before, I would rather be in jail and have my loved ones alive and well then have them dead and be out of jail and in MA compliance.. HANDS DOWN.... Dont even have to think about that one.
end of story for me. but EVERYONE on this thread does have some real good valid points. And dont get me wrong.. I have 2 small kids 8 and 3 and I believe weapons SHOULD be locked up at all times in the house to keep them out of danger. And mine are... however at night when they are sleeping one of my toys comes out and is ready to rock an roll and NO ONE including my wife knows where it is. And just like going to the bathroom in the morning as soon as I get up the first thing I do is lock it up again. Its just that simple. I feel very strongly about this and have no intensions of letting my family suffer due to some stupid ass hole laws.

oh and BTW, we are moving to NH (live free or die) in 2 months (wife got a job up North) so I dont care about MA's stupid anti gun, protect the criminal (a la Deval Patrick former criminal defense ass hole lawyer) mind set.

 

[vellnueve]

Wear a holster on your boxers.

 

[Hanwei]

Re-holster, locked slide back and empty IF and ONLY IF I'm convinced that there are no other potential threats present (unlikely as I'm not going to clear all rooms).

Otherwise, holstered and ready for any further potential threats.

... you wear a holster to bed? I thought I was the only one hehe... just kidding.

I'd be in my underwear... nowhere to holster the gun.

This is all assuming you were sleeping... woke up to a disturbance in the house... retrieved your gun from the bedside safe... and had to use it to put down the bad guy.

honestly... i'd probably just sit in my room on my bed with the gun in my hand until I heard the police arrive... then I'd just unload it and put it on the desk.

 

[dbhn]

I do keep a cheap IWB holster next to the bedside safe. It has a big metal clip on it (the $10 ones on Ebay) and will work OK with boxers and other sleepwear assuming the elastic band will hold up the weight. Works nice for bathrobe pockets as well.

To continue the what ifs above, assuming I can keep the gun on me somehow, I am going to. I don't see any need to put it somewhere in plain view with the slide locked back. 999 time out of 1000 you will have verbal communication with the PD prior to them gettting to you so the chances of them confusing you for a bad guy are very slim.

 

[USMA-82]

I often have students ask during a firearms safety class if I carry a sidearm all the time.
"No, of course not," I tell them - "That ridiculous. Only when I'm awake."

Good thread with some good points. My solution: two doggie alarm systems - no one gets within 20 yards of the house without their alarms going off. Gunvault near the bed - press a few buttons (easy to do in the dark, too), the door pops open, and there's my loaded H&K pistol with attached tactical light. Next I grab the 12 gauge pump shotgun with the digital trigger lock (one digit off from opening), which has a tactical flashlight as well.

Between dogs barking, verbal challenges, and the sound of a pump-action shotgun chambering a shell, if someone continues to "invade my castle" they are probably a serious threat - and will be handled accordingly.

One thing to remember about "quick access" solutions. If you are not awake enough to walk a couple steps, open a quick-access safe, and assess the situation, you are probably not awake enough to be handling a gun just yet. Another thought - a pair of electronic ear muffs nearby that can be put on quickly can enhance your hearing and protect it at the same time. I imagine some permanent damage could be done firing off that 12 gauge in an enclosed space!

My 2 cents....

 

[RKG]

Could this stupid Mass. law be a lawsuit in waiting? Follow me here.....

I have the right in massachusetts to defend my family if I was in fear of death or bodily injury. Now, Because I follow the Massachusetts rules and have my firearms locked up, If I could not defend my family and one of us got seriously hurt during a break in, could I sue the State??

The answer to "Could I sue", in any context, is "Yes." All you have to do is file a complaint and pay the docket fee.

Assuming the question to have been, "Would I have an actionable claim against the Commonwealth?" the answer is a flat "No."

 

[M1911]

Let's forget all the abstract arguments for a moment and talk about the real world. Let's say that you keep a loaded firearm next to your bed for protection. Now how exactly would you get arrested for illegal storage? If the police end up searching your home for some reason while you're not around, then the firearm was unquestionably not stored legally: it's unsecured and you're nowhere around. If you're there in the bedroom, then unless you're catatonic, I'd hope that you could grab the gun before anyone could enter the room.

Suppose you are over 40 and are carrying a bit more weight than you should. And not getting enough exercise.

At 0-dark-30, after having worked too hard on the yard, you wake up with chest pains. Real, real bad chest pains. Your wife understandably calls 911. The ambulance shows up. Along with the pumper truck. And the police cruiser. Everyone troops inside. After they get you strapped to the gurney and carted outside, guess what the police officer sees?

Stranger things have happened. I'm not saying that you should do X or not do Y. But do understand the risks that you are taking and don't become complacent.

 

[KMaurer]

Suppose you are over 40 and are carrying a bit more weight than you should. And not getting enough exercise.

At 0-dark-30, after having worked too hard on the yard, you wake up with chest pains. Real, real bad chest pains. Your wife understandably calls 911. The ambulance shows up. Along with the pumper truck. And the police cruiser. Everyone troops inside. After they get you strapped to the gurney and carted outside, guess what the police officer sees?

Stranger things have happened. I'm not saying that you should do X or not do Y. But do understand the risks that you are taking and don't become complacent.

So the question becomes was the gun in your hand or just sitting there when the attack occurred. First responders and ER personnel routinely take custody of firearms from patients legally carrying when stricken without legal repercussions. What evidence is there that this situation is any different? We all constantly take risks right up until we're dead, and complacency will always get your there quicker. This particular risk isn't one with which I'd concern myself. (It might be a good argument to get your spouse licensed, though.)

Ken

 

[clinotus]

ateamrob you have a night of drinking on me.

 

[Coyote33]

Let's forget all the abstract arguments for a moment and talk about the real world. Let's say that you keep a loaded firearm next to your bed for protection. Now how exactly would you get arrested for illegal storage? If the police end up searching your home for some reason while you're not around, then the firearm was unquestionably not stored legally: it's unsecured and you're nowhere around. If you're there in the bedroom, then unless you're catatonic, I'd hope that you could grab the gun before anyone could enter the room. If the police did somehow manage to enter the room before you picked it up, you could simply assert that you just put the gun down in order to be safe, since you knew it was the police. Bottom line: there shouldn't be any problem with keeping the gun unsecured while you're actually there, but you've got definite problems if you're not there. Arguments about whether or not it's actually under your direct control while you're sleeping fall into the "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" category.

Ken

Unless I'm misreading you Ken, this pretty much jives with what I said in post 41. Thanks!

 

[ateamrob]

ateamrob you have a night of drinking on me.

ha ha... dont worry I will buy a few for you as well....

 

[Len-2A Training]

OK, I want to throw out a few thoughts "on the positive side" here:

- The law requires that the gun be locked up or locked in some way for "storage". Therefore, those guns that have a built-in lock on them (that we hate) might be put to good use. Lock it (yes, loaded-please be very careful in handling) when not under your immediate control, with the key in your pants pocket, on bureau, etc. MIGHT meet the law (not sure that every chief would see it that way if key is nearby, but that's the best you can really do).

Also worth mentioning is the "fireman's preparedness". Back when I was a little kid and hung around the Chestnut Hill Fire Station, I was always impressed with the firefighters' pants rolled down over their boots so that they could just "step into them". NOT a bad idea when sleeping to have your pants (with holster on/in it?) right next to the bed so that if something goes "bump" in the night, you kinda step into the pants and are dressed and armed (unlock the gun ). Just a thought.

[If you have kids that might grab the key and gun, the above would NOT be a good idea, so each person's circumstances might be different.]

 

[M1911]

There are plenty of inexpensive push-button safes that can be easily accessed by touch. Why run the risk when there are inexpensive solutions?

 

[Len-2A Training]

There are plenty of inexpensive push-button safes that can be easily accessed by touch. Why run the risk when there are inexpensive solutions?

It's another option for those who have guns with internal locks.

 

[commandcaddy]

Bedstand gun illegal??

As a police officer who has been attending the Mass Firearms law updates since 1998 this is what I have been taught. It is perfectly legal to have an "unsecured" firearm on your night table next to your bed or a shotgun leaning next to you for protection. This weapon would be under your "area of control."

If you have children in the home or adults that can not be trusted around firearms that changes the entire picture as you do not want someone entering your bedroom in the middle of the night because they "had a bad dream" or "wanted a glass of water" and they see a firearm sitting there and you're still asleep. Keep in mind the Mass. case where the gunowner actually had the firearm locked in the box and an adult who was in the house used tools to pry the box open and retrieve the firearm and shot someone with it. The court ruled that the gunowner was liable as he should have not better than to leave the locked firearm box in the precense of this adult. The adult I believe had some sort of "mental issues" that were known to the gunowner.

commandcaddy

 

[Cross-X]

As a police officer who has been attending the Mass Firearms law updates since 1998 this is what I have been taught. It is perfectly legal to have an "unsecured" firearm on your night table next to your bed or a shotgun leaning next to you for protection. This weapon would be under your "area of control."

If you have children in the home or adults that can not be trusted around firearms that changes the entire picture as you do not want someone entering your bedroom in the middle of the night because they "had a bad dream" or "wanted a glass of water" and they see a firearm sitting there and you're still asleep...

commandcaddy

Regardless of who told you, a gun kept next to your bed while you are asleep is under your "area of control" and therefore doesn't need to be stored is mistaken. If you are asleep, you aren't controlling anything.

In addition, even if the responding police offier exercises his or her discretion and chooses not to arrest or otherwise criminally charge you, your local police chief or firearms licensing officer may nonetheless decide you have proven yourself to be an "unsuitable person" and suspend or revoke your LTC.

The first sentence of your second paragraph seems to be a direct contradiction of the thrust of your initial contention. What you've said, if I understand you correctly, is that the nearby firearm is in an area under your direct control unless there is a chance that a child or untrustworthy adult may come into the room. As you note, you'd still be asleep, so you write that keeping a firearm under those conditions wouldn't be a good idea. Contradictory?

After twenty years representing gun owners, I can assure you that dealing with any LTC suspension or revocation is a pain in the neck. Why invite licensing trouble when you don't have to?

That there debate about this is hard to understand, particularly when, as M1911 noted, inexpensive instant access secure containers are so readily available.

Darius Arbabi
www.massgunlaw.com