Best .45 Available

[Scrivener]

While we're on the subject of SVIs... so what's the deal with those? If you want an MA compliant one, I'm guessing you have to buy it the way it's configured.... or is it one of these deals where you buy a "base" gun thats compliant and have to send it back to the factory to have (whatever other options) you want put on it?

Neither, really.

Either can be had in any caliber from .45 ACP on down to 9mm (which is to say, pretty much any autoloader caliber you'd want); with any trigger group configuration you select (no "Mass. trigger") and any target (read: micro-click adjustable) sights offered. Magwells may also be added.

If the bloody "target pistol" law ever gets competently drafted and implemented, you'll have even more variations to choose from.

 

[Executive]

I have a S&W 1911Sc in 5", a S&W 1911PD in 4", a Sig 220, a G21, and a S&W 4563 Tactical 45. You know what I shoot the most? The 4563. I'm not saying it is the best, but it sure is a good shooter and fun. A ton of dry firing has made the trigger quite acceptable. I'm most accurate with my 1911PD, with the 1911Sc a close second. The 220 is not too far behind either. I almost never shoot the G21 anymore, but I know if I need it it will work.

As far as high end custom 1911s are concerned, I've seen way too many of them malfunction with FTFs, FTEs and stovepipes fairly common. A high end 1911 custom is like a supermodel, great to look at, a fantastic one night stand, but totally high maintenance for the long run.

The best .45 for me? The four I have in the safe.

 

[Scrivener]

Both my double-stack .40 and single-stack .45 SVI's feed and extract reliably, including my lead RNFP loads. Each has the AET barrel, which has a triple-layer coating of ceramic hardness, so cleaning is not an issue. More of that "snake oil........"

The race gun is a tad finicky; I think it's time to tweak the followers.

 

[MassQuatch]

I think I've pretty much decided on a PC Smith 1911. Roughly 1600 bucks.
The cost doesnt really matter to me, I'm willing to pay for a good quality gun.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The Infinity Traditional is even missing features like a magazine well according to their web site.

The mag well is an option on both the single stack (traditional) and wide body (competition) frame.

 

[adweisbe]

The mag well is an option on both the single stack (traditional) and wide body (competition) frame.

http://www.sviguns.com/gb2/gb2edt.php?action=start&indx=12
Not in my browser. There is no drop down box.

 

[rscalzo]

Both my double-stack .40 and single-stack .45 SVI's feed and extract reliably, including my lead RNFP

What loads do you use? I've switched between several different bullet weights and styles from 185 up to 230 FMJ but nothing is 100 percert. I get a FTE whichs jams just inside the ejection port ever so often.

 

[GTOShootr]

I think I've pretty much decided on a PC Smith 1911. Roughly 1600 bucks.
The cost doesnt really matter to me, I'm willing to pay for a good quality gun.

That's a good deal for all what you are getting.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

http://www.sviguns.com/gb2/gb2edt.php?action=start&indx=12
Not in my browser. There is no drop down box.

I just checked. You were selecting the MA Legal Single Stack.

The factory has not configured the mag well in the template for that particular design, however, I can say with certaintly that one can easily be installed. All it takes is the Infinity mag well and match mainspring housing (no machine work or fitting to the gun needed).

My guess is that they didn't include it on the MA Legal design offered on the site so they would not deviate from the "as submitted for testing" version.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

An interesting exercise if you are shopping for a high end 1911-

Call the manufacturer and ask

- Are your frame and slide forged, machined from bar stock, or cast? (If the answer is "yes", rather than telling you which one, run)

- What parts are MIM? What parts are cast? Which are machined? If you get an evasive answer, or are told the answer is proprietary, run.

 

[adweisbe]

- What parts are MIM? What parts are cast? Which are machined? If you get an evasive answer, or are told the answer is proprietary, run.

The process does not determine the quality of the parts. All 3 processes will make parts more then adequate for the correct task. A badly produced forging is worse then the best MIM part.

 

[Scrivener]

The process does not determine the quality of the parts.

Really? How can an inferior process produce quality results?

All 3 processes will make parts more then [sic] adequate for the correct task. A badly produced forging is worse then [sic] the best MIM part.

Eminently debatable.

And a badly produced forging is obvious; the MIM part is not - until you see the fracture when it fails.

 

[Mikey]

As a Mechanical Engineer (my head grows bigger everyday ) who works with metal all day every day I just want to say that in general there is nothing wrong with MIM parts. MIM is an inexpensive way to make small parts that would be impossible or very expensive to machine or forge. Done correctly it is no worst then a forging. A competent company should be able to produce a MIM or forged part capable of performing just as well as a part machined form solid stock. That being said solid billet parts are the best and given the choice it is what I would choose. But even an inept company can machine a solid part incorrectly producing a future failure.

I would assume that the hatred for MIM parts I see on this forum is do to the fact that companies with poor QC and or lack of ethics are using it to save money without regard for the correct process. But if that is true then you should assume that they are doing the same with their machined and forged parts. Best bet would be to not buy anything from a company like that. But if a quality company like say Kimber was to use MIM parts I would not worry about the future performance of them. But of course a company like Kimber would not use MIM parts which is reflected in their prices.

Long story short, if you are buying from a quality company then you should not worry to much, but if buying from a lesser company then you should worry about every part not just the MIM.

 

[drgrant]

Neither, really.

Either can be had in any caliber from .45 ACP on down to 9mm (which is to say, pretty much any autoloader caliber you'd want); with any trigger group configuration you select (no "Mass. trigger") and any target (read: micro-click adjustable) sights offered. Magwells may also be added.

If the bloody "target pistol" law ever gets competently drafted and implemented, you'll have even more variations to choose from.

Ok, so basically you're saying all I can buy is the MA single/double frame
versions, and thats it.. anything else I'd have to send it back and get
it customized, or order parts and have someone up here fit
them. The caliber thing was stuck on .45 ACP (w/no other
choices) so I guess I couldn't get either in .40, if I wanted?

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

But if a quality company like say Kimber was to use MIM parts I would not worry about the future performance of them. But of course a company like Kimber would not use MIM parts which is reflected in their prices.

I thought Kimber was called MIMber for a reason. Maybe they
stopped using MIM, but I'm not sure about that. I have two Kimber
1911s here, one is like a '97 model and the other is from roughly 2002 or
so. Both seem to be decent pistols.... I think you are right that
if it is done right, it doesn't make a real difference. Problem is when
people start cutting corners, it's impossible to know HOW far they cut
that corner. I have seen some downright abhorrent MIM failures on
newer SIG handguns... like takedown levers getting sheared off, and defective
hammers and the like. Neither failure is common, but still
disturbing.

-Mike

 

[Mikey]

I thought Kimber was called MIMber for a reason.
-Mike

Maybe Kimber is not a good example, I really don't know, I guess you can insert any "quality" company in its place. To me Kimbers are expensive so I may have mistakenly figured they machined all their parts.

If I am wrong I truly am sorry.

 

[Scrivener]

Ok, so basically you're saying all I can buy is the MA single/double frame
versions, and thats it.. anything else I'd have to send it back and get it customized, or order parts and have someone up here fit them.

If you want a compact or a "race gun," yes; otherwise, those two versions will cover most needs.

The caliber thing was stuck on .45 ACP (w/no other choices) so I guess I couldn't get either in .40, if I wanted?

WRONG. Once again:

Either can be had in any caliber from .45 ACP on down to 9mm (which is to say, pretty much any autoloader caliber you'd want)

 

[adweisbe]

Can't respond to what I can't see, but I just wanted to add some examples of companies that are using MIM and cast parts. Wilson Combat uses MIM and cast components, I do not know off hand which specifically. The Ed Brown hardcore slide stop is cast and is generally considered to be a high quality part. S&W uses a number of MIM components in their guns and they have made it to the 100k mark. Colt uses cast hammers and MIM sears. Chip McCormick switched from using cast and forged parts to mostly MIM parts. Caspian uses cast frames. STI makes use of cast and MIM internals. S&W revolvers use MIM and cast internals and I used to think the older forged parts were superior until I handled one of PMD's post-lock revolvers. Apparently MIM polishes up just fine.

The more I read about MIM and casting being used in industrial applications the more I begin to believe that the rap it gets is undeserved. Parts made by the lowest bidder (Kimber I'm looking in your direction) will always be parts made by the lowest bidder no matter what process was used to create them. Kimber had ALWAYS used MIM parts and they built quite a positive reputation with their series 1 guns. My unscientific impression is that problems started showing up later on.

Regarding Sig takedown levers, I would not assume right off the bat that they are MIM. They might be cast. Hammers are MIM. Doesn't stop Bruce Gray from working his magic.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

One interesting item about the technology argument argument for parts is that proponents of MIM or cast parts argue that they are "as good", or that billet machined parts can be poorly made. I haven't seen any argument that the best cast or MIM part is as good as the best part machined from hardened barstock. Even Caspian which has for years offered excellent cast frames has added a machined from billet frame to their product line.

I've seen the processes by which SVI/Infinity makes their parts and the quality (tolerances, material selection and finish) is second to none. I also know of cases where they went to great expense to achieve ever so slight imrovements in quality that few buyers would notice.

Many of the smaller specialty gun manufacturers use barrels from an outside supplier including Infinity until not so long ago. They are now making their barrels completely in-house.

Finally, don't assume that high price means a lack of MIM parts - this is definitely not always the case.

 

[Chris]

I've looked at this thread with some amusement, and I can't hold back any longer.

.45/70 is the 'BEST' (^_^)

I can assume by the content we are limited to the .45 ACP, but please remember that there are MANY calibers in the .45 family.

After handling the M&P45 at the GOAL Annual Meeting, I am really excited about this .45 ACP firearm. With street prices likely to be in the $700 range or less and an action that seems to be VERY easy to tune plus the 10 round capacity it appears to be a really good alternative to the classic 1911. Now if the EOPS can just update their list with the gun on it.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 1911s but the classic design really doesn't fit my hand as well as I'd like, but the M&P does very nicely.

 

[adweisbe]

Dane Burns:
http://pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=64722&sid=0ac872d3aef5e87c67b65f0c81887f1e#64722
http://pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=64774&sid=0ac872d3aef5e87c67b65f0c81887f1e#64774
http://pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=64824&sid=0ac872d3aef5e87c67b65f0c81887f1e#64824
The rest of the thread should also be of interest. Some "big names" posting there. It's really not a case of better or worse. Different definitely and it really depends on the application and what type of part you are actually getting.

Chris are you talking about this?

 

[drgrant]

WRONG. Once again:

Either can be had in any caliber from .45 ACP on down to 9mm (which is to say, pretty much any autoloader caliber you'd want)

I'm not wrong. If you'd like me to send you a screen shot of the SVI gun
configurator page, I can do that. It says "45 ACP" on it, there are
no dropdown box selections.

Note that, if I select one of the normal (non MA) guns from the list
above the two MA/CA models, that I can select virtually any conceivable
caliber I want from the list.

I never said it wasn't possible, to say, call a human at SVI and request
a different caliber... which is what I presume one would have to do if someone
wanted to "build" something (that will get through an MA FFL) in anything other than .45 ACP.

-Mike

 

[Scrivener]

I'm not wrong. If you'd like me to send you a screen shot of the SVI gun
configurator page, I can do that. It says "45 ACP" on it, there are no dropdown box selections.

The confusion no doubt is due to the fact that .45 ACP was the caliber actually tested. This was for a very specific reason:

Under Mass. law, all lesser calibers are automatically included in the approval.

If the SVI website has artificially limited caliber options to .45, the web manager WILL correct that deficiency. Trust me on this.

The fact remains that a Mass. resident can get either of the SVI's on the EOPS list in any caliber SVI chambers for, from .45 ACP on down.

If you want a .40 Limited gun - order it!

 

[Cuz]

I think I've pretty much decided on a PC Smith 1911. Roughly 1600 bucks.
The cost doesnt really matter to me, I'm willing to pay for a good quality gun.

I think the "best" .45 is a S&W 625 Revolver, with 5 inch barrel. It'll work for anything but carrying. In the "protection/production" category I'd go with a Glock regardless of Scriv's experience. For competition, in a non-revo configuration the SVI is probably tops. It's just too hard to pick just one.

-Cuz.

 

[Scrivener]

I'll second the 625 if your parameters include antediluvian designs. I liked my 625 so much I bought the PC version.

Anyone who's seen Miculek shoot a revo will wonder why autoloaders were ever developed.

Why? - because the rest of us couldn't possibly shoot that well, that fast!

But if you get an SVI, at least you'll look cool!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I took a look - the model listed is MA/CA Widebody. CA is very strict about model certification and as I understand it you can't simply go with a lesser caliber. I'll suggest the factory rename this to CA Legal model and add a MA Legal model with caliber choices - in the meantime, feel free to call the factory.

 

[Hawkeye]

Glock 21 or 30 is the way to go