Bolt action practice

peterk123 said:
Anybody use something like a 223 bolt action to practice at the range instead of always using their larger caliber hunting rifle? I'm wondering if it would make sense because the cost to shoot is quite a bit less. I could practice with the AR but I think it is important to practice working the bolt when in various hunting positions You just never know if you need a follow up shot. Thoughts?

I know, it will take a lot of shooting to breakeven on the cost of the gun. But the cost of purchasing another firearm is never part of the math in our house :cool: And between me and my wife, we will shoot a lot.
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Best way to practice hunting is go hunting , take a 22lr bolt gun and go tree rat hunting.
I genrally shoot 22lr bolt action 90% of the time at the range. Out to 200 yards.

The important thing is to replicate your hunting environment at the range and shooting position.

Make sure your cold bore shot is on point.
 
paulleve said:
It's a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock, and I really like it! I picked up the Savage MKII at the Mill for around $235 out the door, and when I found out it could really shoot tight groups I decided to upgrade the stock. The plastic factory stock is pretty flimsy, but the barreled action is solid and features a 16.5" fluted heavy barrel and extended bolt handle. In the Boyd's stock it's a really nice package. With CCI SV ammo it can hit a 6" gong at 300 yards about half the time if wind isn't an issue.

View attachment 706614

View attachment 706613
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I loved my mkii fvsr so much I bought a 2nd one, the stock I don't love so much, well off the check out Boyds
 
Broc said:
The components, while expensive, are still cheaper than sh*t factory ammo.
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That!!!

Let's take 308 as an example. 308 reload: bullets can be found for 12-15 cents, and primers are in the 7-10cent territory. Powder(if you're not into brand-name powders) is under $20/lb, so we're looking at 10-12 cents for powder. Considering that you're not buying new brass every time you load, we are looking at 29-37 cpr. This is "cheap 223 ammo" territory and half the price of the cheapest 223 match ammo at Target Sports.
 
VetteGirlMA said:
I have a Ruger American (.223) with a scope and bipod and the Miculek compensator and the best part is, it uses standard AR magazines. Sometimes I love swinging a bolt as I do cocking a lever. The only thing I am missing for the rifle that I want to get is a Boyd's stock. It's definitely my Gucci gun lol.
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Like this?
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slap shot said:
Get your appleseed patch with a bolt action .22 and 4 10 round magazines. You will come out a much better marksman.
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Haven't seen much Appleseed stuff in the past year or so. Where in central MA might one attend these? Wanted to host one at our club, but it sounds like the requirements don't match up.
 
Leyden is West of both the Quabbin and the Connecticut River, certainly not close to central MA. Harvard is somewhat close to central MA. Thanks.
 
peterk123 said:
My 308 is my hunting rifle. I reload but component costs are pretty high. My practice has been off my pack at 200yds. Various positions. Goal is to be proficient at 300yds or so. Plus my wife will be hunting next fall as well. So we plan to have a lot of range time this year getting ready for next season.

I learned from this year's hunt that I want to be comfortable at any position. This year's shot was at 200 yards, crawling for 20yards, prone position using sage brush to help with stabilzing the gun. It worked 😁
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I totally get where you are coming from. Pretty much all my shooting with long guns is preparation for hunting seasons. I mainly shoot matches as the pressure gets me as close to "buck fever" as I can in practice. Its great that you have identified what you want to practice ( improvised position shooting out to 300 yards).

My favorite hunting rifle was (still is) a Winchester Mod 70 featherweight in .270 or its matching brother in 308. Nice to carry, they got the job done, pleasing to the eye. However the downside of the lightweight hunting rifle is the felt recoil. Hi, my name is northny and I'm a flinch-aholic. I found about 10 rounds was all I could do in a single range session with the 308, and frankly there was little fun about it. The other issue with all my featherweights but one was after two rounds the thin barrels would move point of impact. So it was shoot two, and wait for barrel to cool. Finish half a box and quit. I bought a featherweight in .222 Remington (this was 45+ years ago) , and shooting 52 - 55 grain pills comfortable and accurate. It was the one featherweight I had that didn't shift point of impact as barrel heated so I could shoot a lot more. I never felt shooting the .22 rem did anything but help me improve

the other thing I did was with both rifles hand loaded 110 bullets for a reduced recoil loads. Pleasurable to shoot, and accurate. This allowed me to shoot my hunting rifles a lot more in practice comfortably. After .22 rim fire I started both my sons (and a few other new shooters) on center fire rifles with this loads. They are not powder puff loads (the 308 is going 2600 to 2900 fps), but when you reduce the bullet mass by a third you reduce the recoil by a third (momentum = mass x velocity)

Here is the load I use (disclaimer: this is safe in my rifles, it may not me in yours. Check your reloading manuals and develop your own loads at your own risk I am not responsible for any errors or ommissions)

308 Wincheter
Brass: winchester
Bullet: Sierra 110 grain hollow points item # 2110
Powder: IMR 4198 36.0 grains
Primer: CCI 200
AOL 2.650

I shot some of these this week, and I had three five shot groups all under and inch.
On the Labradar these gave (for five shots)
Avg speed 2900 fps
Ext Spread 25 fps
Std Dev 10.0

strange those numbers came out so "even" but thats was was on the screen

I also shot the same load with 33.0 grains of IMR 4198 for years. But the above load hits dead on at 100 yards when I have rifle sighted in for 200 yards with my hunting load.

One final thought: When you get to practicing your improvised shooting positions look up info on Kraft Rifle. Should be a youtube video. Their concept is there are two elements to it. First is fundamentals: Making a good shot in an improvised position under no time constraint. Then there is the stress element: Doing the same thing under a time constraint (match timing or the animal moving) I found the thinking very helpful in organizing my practices.
 
northny said:
I found about 10 rounds was all I could do in a single range session with the 308, and frankly there was little fun about it.
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From 308? I actually shoot 308 because I think it is pretty mild. I could shoot my 700 in 308 all day.
Now my 700 in 300 WinMag, not as much. It's not really punishing, but after about 30 rounds, the concussion kind of makes me feel like I drank a bottle of cough syrup.

All the cool kids are shooting 6.5 Creedmoor, and it might be worth a look? Aside from substantially better ballistics, the conventional wisdom is that it's about 25% less recoil than 308.
Or, maybe also consider the AR10 platform, or another 7.62x51 rifle, with a buffer tube?
 
A good, accurate 22lr rifle, used with good ammo, will teach you all you need to know about marksmanship.
You just need someone to tell you how to accomplish that. It really can't be typed out in a response here. It needs to be shown.
 
BigGreen2000 said:
Anyone shoot a M1-A in 6.5 CM? Seems like it would be super accurate
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Back when the M14 was king of the semi-auto accuracy hill, many match rifle shooters had them in 6.5-08 (260 Rem). They were good enough to clean the course, but so wasn't the same rifle in 308. 6.5-08 just made wind calls a tad easier.
 
I'd further add, a fast follow up shot/bolt manipulation is really overrated. Make your first shot count and you don't need to worry about a second one.
I use a single shot rifle for deer hunting. I don't shoot unless I know I can put a good shot on a target.
 
Okay, back to this subject. I've started reloading 308. I can do it for way less than buying rounds. I started my perfect load journey in 2020. 41.5 gr of imr4895 with a 165gr bullet was pretty darn accurate. Then the madness hit and I stopped reloading.

Here is the rub. I was getting 2425fps per my chrono. The rounds I hunted with supposedly are 2800fps. It dropped a cow elk in its tracks.

Do I work up load that gets me near the factory round or do I load at 41.5 grains, then resite my scope for hunting season and use the factory rounds? It's all about practice this spring and summer. I'm trying to figure out if my reloaded rounds are sufficient for elk. More on that later, once I know more. Thanks Pete
 
peterk123 said:
Okay, back to this subject. I've started reloading 308. I can do it for way less than buying rounds. I started my perfect load journey in 2020. 41.5 gr of imr4895 with a 165gr bullet was pretty darn accurate. Then the madness hit and I stopped reloading.

Here is the rub. I was getting 2425fps per my chrono. The rounds I hunted with supposedly are 2800fps. It dropped a cow elk in its tracks.

Do I work up load that gets me near the factory round or do I load at 41.5 grains, then resite my scope for hunting season and use the factory rounds? It's all about practice this spring and summer. I'm trying to figure out if my reloaded rounds are sufficient for elk. More on that later, once I know more. Thanks Pete
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If you are at 200 yards, you're likely getting north of 2000 fps and probably around 1.5K ft-lbs of energy with 2425fps at the muzzle.
 
peterk123 said:
Okay, back to this subject. I've started reloading 308. I can do it for way less than buying rounds. I started my perfect load journey in 2020. 41.5 gr of imr4895 with a 165gr bullet was pretty darn accurate. Then the madness hit and I stopped reloading.

Here is the rub. I was getting 2425fps per my chrono. The rounds I hunted with supposedly are 2800fps. It dropped a cow elk in its tracks.

Do I work up load that gets me near the factory round or do I load at 41.5 grains, then resite my scope for hunting season and use the factory rounds? It's all about practice this spring and summer. I'm trying to figure out if my reloaded rounds are sufficient for elk. More on that later, once I know more. Thanks Pete
Click to expand...
You could always leave your scope alone and just let the reload impact where they do and just watch your groups.
I do this with my 513t 22lr its zeroed for 200 yards so at 50 and 100 I just shoot for groups.
 
peterk123 said:
Okay, back to this subject. I've started reloading 308. I can do it for way less than buying rounds. I started my perfect load journey in 2020. 41.5 gr of imr4895 with a 165gr bullet was pretty darn accurate. Then the madness hit and I stopped reloading.

Here is the rub. I was getting 2425fps per my chrono. The rounds I hunted with supposedly are 2800fps. It dropped a cow elk in its tracks.

Do I work up load that gets me near the factory round or do I load at 41.5 grains, then resite my scope for hunting season and use the factory rounds? It's all about practice this spring and summer. I'm trying to figure out if my reloaded rounds are sufficient for elk. More on that later, once I know more. Thanks Pete
Click to expand...

when I first started using a chronograph on my hand loads I learned a lot. I actually sold a rifle ( blasphemy!) to buy a Labradar to make chronographping loads easier.

first thing I learned was ammo manufactures will often mislead you on speed. They just fail to tell you that they used a 26” barrel for the test (while you are using a 20” one on your hunting rifle.). The old Remington ammo company was the worst where even if you matched them on barrel length they were still 200 fps slower than their claim and 200 fps slower than other brands ammo.

So the first thing is test the speed of the supposedly 2800 fps factory ammo through your rifle. It may not be as different from your hand loads as you think. Of course if you have shot then at the same range session and the groups are three inches apart then they probably are that different.

Next is assuming they are that different, do you change scope setting for practice ammo? If you are shooting a few rounds off the bench at 100 yards, no. If you are practicing shooting from improvised field positions then change scope setting. Most of my practice is the out of position shooting and I score it pass / fail. I either hit the target or not. I tend to use 3” paper targets at 100 or 6” steel at 200 ( sometimes I paint 5” circle centered on 10” steel and put it anywhere between 200 - 400 yards). At 100 / 200 yards changing the scope setting works.

The real answer here is to change your hand loads to mimic the factory ammo , use your hand loads for hunting, and stop buying factory ammo. I used the mental crutch of switching to the “magical“ / “deadly” factory ammo for hunting for decades. I finally realized my hand loads were as reliable as factory ammo, were going as fast as factory ammo, had bullets as good or better than factory, and were way more accurate than most factory ammo. ( These days I do little of what I call eastern woods hunting where a long shot is 100 yards, where non of this applies. I’m mostly sitting fields for deer and coyote where 150 -250 yard shot is normal)
 
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northny said:
when I first started using a chronograph on my hand loads I learned a lot. I actually sold a rifle ( blasphemy!) to buy a Labradar to make chronographping loads easier.

first thing I learned was ammo manufactures will often mislead you on speed. They just fail to tell you that they used a 26” barrel for the test (while you are using a 20” one on your hunting rifle.). The old Remington ammo company was the worst where even if you matched them on barrel length they were still 200 fps slower than their claim and 200 fps slower than other brands ammo.

So the first thing is test the speed of the supposedly 2800 fps factory ammo through your rifle. It may not be as different from your hand loads as you think. Of course if you have shot then at the same range session and the groups are three inches apart then they probably are that different.

Next is assuming they are that different, do you change scope setting for practice ammo? If you are shooting a few rounds off the bench at 100 yards, no. If you are practicing shooting from improvised field positions then change scope setting. Most of my practice is the out of position shooting and I score it pass / fail. I either hit the target or not. I tend to use 3” paper targets at 100 or 6” steel at 200 ( sometimes I paint 5” circle centered on 10” steel and put it anywhere between 200 - 400 yards). At 100 / 200 yards changing the scope setting works.

The real answer here is to change your hand loads to mimic the factory ammo , use your hand loads for hunting, and stop buying factory ammo. I used the mental crutch of switching to the “magical“ / “deadly” factory ammo for hunting for decades. I finally realized my hand loads were as reliable as factory ammo, were going as fast as factory ammo, had bullets as good or better than factory, and were way more accurate than most factory ammo. ( These days I do little of what I call eastern woods hunting where a long shot is 100 yards, where non of this applies. I’m mostly sitting fields for deer and coyote were 150 -250 yards is normal)
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Great post! Thank you.
 

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