Borrowing guns- out of state friend for example

[Lugnut]

Flame protection on-

I have some friends in other states that can get/or own selections of guns that us poor souls in MA can only dream of. Is it legit to just borrow a gun from an out of state friend? If so, are there time limits? Of course I'm aware that I can't possess hicap mags regardless.

-Flame protection off.

 

[Cross-X]

Call me for a private, free consult!

 

[doobie]

Call me for a private, free consult!

You just want to know when he'll have them so you can play with the big boy toys that your mummy won't let you play with

 

[jdubois]

Call me for a private, free consult!

Well, here's my public consult (mine is free too, but I'm completely unqualified to give it, and will probably be charged with practicing law without a license for even using the word 'consult', so Cross-X is still the better horse to bet on. )

According to federal law (18 USC 44 § 922(5)), you are allowed to borrow firearms from residents of another state for 'temporary use for lawful sporting purposes'. So if you're wanting to 'borrow' them indefinitely to be your carry gun, you're SOL. But if you want to try them out at the range because you can't get them easily here in MA, you're completely within your legal right to do so. You cannot, however, transport those firearms into your state of residence if they don't belong to you (18 USC 44 § 922(3)). So, in the case of handguns, your friend would need to have a MA non-resident LTC in order to bring them into the state and then lend them to you.

I also, personally, would be hesitant to have them in state for any long period of time while your friend is back in their own state. The lines as to what is a temporary loan and what is a sporting purpose are not clearly defined, so you can push it as far as your comfortable with.

 

[theGringo]

A local police officer told me that when he wants to shoot something really evil, he borrows something from one of his out-of-state sons. There's some stuff even HE can't own, but can (apparently) borrow.

 

[ARowley]

Just a few more years... just a few more... then it is off to Maine and i can buy whatever i want.

 

[Cross-X]

Self-defense is sporting -- felonious criminals are always in season. Your LTC is your hunting license. (Kids, I'm joking!)

 

[Lugnut]

You cannot, however, transport those firearms into your state of residence if they don't belong to you (18 USC 44 § 922(3)). So, in the case of handguns, your friend would need to have a MA non-resident LTC in order to bring them into the state and then lend them to you.

Well that's kind of interesting. What if he met me at the NH/MA state line and handed it to me?

 

[jdubois]

Well that's kind of interesting. What if he met me at the NH/MA state line and handed it to me?

As long as you get the land records and surveying equipment out so you can be sure no part of him touches MA and you only touch the gun once it's left NH. Maybe he can throw it across.

 

[drgrant]

As long as you get the land records and surveying equipment out so you can be sure no part of him touches MA and you only touch the gun once it's left NH. Maybe he can throw it across.

He could always use FOPA and they could meet in traffic at "that stoplight that always turns red" and pop his trunk and do a chinese fire drill kind of
transfer. Hey, he's not INTENTIONALLY trying to detain himself. j/k

-Mike

 

[Lugnut]

As long as you get the land records and surveying equipment out so you can be sure no part of him touches MA and you only touch the gun once it's left NH. Maybe he can throw it across.

Actually- on a serious note- since I have a NH NR license- I can't see how this would be a problem. But I haven't looked up the actual docs you posted.

 

[jar]

Actually- on a serious note- since I have a NH NR license- I can't see how this would be a problem. But I haven't looked up the actual docs you posted.

Your NH license doesn't enter into it. The point jdubois is making is that the OWNER must carry them across the border. Here's a link to the laws he cited: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

 

[Lugnut]

Your NH license doesn't enter into it. The point jdubois is making is that the OWNER must carry them across the border. Here's a link to the laws he cited: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

Thanks for the link.... so I'd be exempt if I was a "licensed collector" though. I have a C&R so I would think I'd be ok still. These laws are a PITA.

 

[KMaurer]

Given that the burden of proof in any criminal prosecution is on the government, you might simplify the transportation process by simply doing it when people aren't watching closely. For example, take possession of the gun in his home or other private place and, since you've got a NH non-resident permit, just keep it concealed. It saves the time otherwise wasted contemplating exactly what the legislative intent was when the particular text in question was drafted and passed into law.

Ken

 

[jdubois]

Thanks for the link.... so I'd be exempt if I was a "licensed collector" though. I have a C&R so I would think I'd be ok still. These laws are a PITA.

Yes, your C&R is what they're referring to when they say "licensed collector". But when dealing with non-C&R eligible guns, you don't have licensed collector status.

Given that the burden of proof in any criminal prosecution is on the government, you might simplify the transportation process by simply doing it when people aren't watching closely.

Since we're not supposed to support illegal activities per the forum rules, I tend not to make some obvious suggestions. I just present the laws as they stand, and allow each individual to make their own decisions on whether to follow them or not.

 

[KMaurer]

Of course I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal. I'm simply pointing out the obvious fact that a little discretion is worth a lot more than any amount of amateur lawyering over minute details of the law (on the level of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"). People frequently tend to focus obsessively on some unimportant detail while ignoring the obvious.

Ken

 

[Neptune Cat]

How about you and your friend in the same car as it crosses the state line?

In New Hampshire, he's in possession and in MA, your in possession.

No laws broken, I think.

 

[Lugnut]

I know what you're saying... but it doesn't specify this in the section.. so it's still ambiguous IMO. I do appreciate your help.

Yes, your C&R is what they're referring to when they say "licensed collector". But when dealing with non-C&R eligible guns, you don't have licensed collector status.

 

[jdubois]

I know what you're saying... but it doesn't specify this in the section.. so it's still ambiguous IMO.

The ambiguity is cleared up in 27 CFR 478.93. It specifically states the license is only good for purchase, sales, acquisition, transportation, etc of C&R firearms, and for all other transactions a C&R license holder is regarded the same as a nonlicensee for the purposes of the GCA.