Build your ideal USPSA Open Gun

TY43215 said:
Have you tried tailoring your ammo to the gun you have to reduce the flip?
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I'm around 1500 rounds into my reloading career and have only experimented with 1 weight bullet and 2 different powders so far. My current load is quite manageable (3.1 of clays and a 180gr JHP), watching a vid of myself at manville a couple months ago I dont see much flip and I can get things settled at an ok pace when firing. I've only used titegroup in my major workups and its not going to cut it, I'd have to go a tenth or two above the published max to get major out of either of my guns at 80deg. I have a few hundred 155 JHP that I need to experiment with. A buddy is loaning me a little powerpistol to try in major loads, may experiment with the same pf in the 180 and 155 to get a feel for the diff.
 
Clays and .40 don't do well at major PF. keep with tightgroup, it will make major safely, use a chrono and watch for pressure signs. I run 7625 because I have a ton of it and don't really seem to notice the difference of different powders.

155 sucks for .40 major
 
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Supermoto said:
Clays and .40 don't do well at major PF. keep with tightgroup, it will make major safely, use a chrono and watch for pressure signs. I run 7625 because I have a ton of it and don't really seem to notice the difference of different powders.

155 sucks for .40 major
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yea no way I'm doing Clays for 40maj at lengths that will fit in a USP or Glock, really nice load for minor though. I fired 10 shots of 4.6gr Titegroup under a 180gr JHP @ 1.135 over the chrono from the USP and averaged out to around 162pf (load data isn't in front of me at the moment). I guess I can try going up to 4.7 or 4.8gr to see if I can get to 170. recoil didn't seem all that bad on the 4.6gr loads but I was concentrating on not shooting my chrono (again) and not paying too much attention to the feel of it. no pressure signs at that load.

the 155s found their way to me at no cost, some people seem to like to use them on comp'd 40s but I figured I wouldn't have much use for them. I might try to do some workups with a few just to check em out and try to offload the rest.
 
BostonBullit said:
the 155s found their way to me at no cost, some people seem to like to use them on comp'd 40s but I figured I wouldn't have much use for them. I might try to do some workups with a few just to check em out and try to offload the rest.
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I use 155g for IPSC modified, very snappy in a limited gun
 
TY43215 said:
You need to try heavier bullets. You keep mentioning Comped guns. Your isn't so get over it [wink]
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heavier!?! man there doesn't seem like much room at all left in the case after I press in a 180gr to max SAMMI spec! I can probably squeeze a 1.137 into the mag and chamber without causing issues but I doubt much more than that. I guess I could try some 200gr and see what's what there. wouldn't it be nice if manufacturers sold demo packs? get 25ea of a few different weight bullets, 1/4lb each of a few different powders, etc. etc. I'm sure if I ask around the club someone will have a handful of 200s I can buy/trade for....

I can't get over it, I have comp envy....I sometimes stay up late at night making fake comps out of napkins and cardboard but they fall right off during my dry fire drills [shocked][rofl]
 
BostonBullit said:
heavier!?! man there doesn't seem like much room at all left in the case after I press in a 180gr to max SAMMI spec! I can probably squeeze a 1.137 into the mag and chamber without causing issues but I doubt much more than that. I guess I could try some 200gr and see what's what there. wouldn't it be nice if manufacturers sold demo packs? get 25ea of a few different weight bullets, 1/4lb each of a few different powders, etc. etc. I'm sure if I ask around the club someone will have a handful of 200s I can buy/trade for....
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180gr JHP over 4.7gr of TG at 1.175 OAL (OAL is from memory) makes 172 PF out of my 5" limited pistols consistently. You shouldn't have to go much more in charge or any heavier in bullet if you are shooting a 5" gun.
 
heavier!?! man there doesn't seem like much room at all left in the case after I press in a 180gr to max SAMMI spec!
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If you are loading for STI, SVI or Para, you will want longer than SAAMI spec. SAAMI spec is 1.135 OAL; I run 1.180 - 1.200 in my 40 cal SVIs.
 
MFP 4073 said:
180gr JHP over 4.7gr of TG at 1.175 OAL (OAL is from memory) makes 172 PF out of my 5" limited pistols consistently. You shouldn't have to go much more in charge or any heavier in bullet if you are shooting a 5" gun.
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Rob Boudrie said:
If you are loading for STI, SVI or Para, you will want longer than SAAMI spec. SAAMI spec is 1.135 OAL; I run 1.180 - 1.200 in my 40 cal SVIs.
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there's kind of a mashup of current vs potential future going on, I'm currently working with a wee bit over SAAMI spec becuase I'm running the rounds through my USP and soon my Glock 22. most of my chrono data is for the USP and stock 4.25" barrel, a few rounds out of the glock over the chrono produced very similar numbers. These two guns are my main point of reference for .40 shooting with regard to feel/recoil/flip and are the only guns I've reloaded for thus far.


new question: since the lower half of the 2011 type guns is pretty much the same (or isn't it?) why can't you setup two top ends to use with the same lower; one for Limited in 40 and another in a 38 Super varient? just not cost effective? too much of a hassle trying to get two slides that tightly fit the same lower frame so you end up with an inferior setup in both divisions?
 
BostonBullit said:
new question: since the lower half of the 2011 type guns is pretty much the same (or isn't it?) why can't you setup two top ends to use with the same lower; one for Limited in 40 and another in a 38 Super varient? just not cost effective? too much of a hassle trying to get two slides that tightly fit the same lower frame so you end up with an inferior setup in both divisions?
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It can be done. What are you going to do with the scope when you shoot Limited? Everyone that shoots both divisions have a dedicated gun for each. Then they just grab the proper gun out of the safe, and hopefully the right mags and ammo!
 
Dan S said:
It can be done. What are you going to do with the scope when you shoot Limited? Everyone that shoots both divisions have a dedicated gun for each. Then they just grab the proper gun out of the safe, and hopefully the right mags and ammo!
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I was thinking a little more extreme, slide off the whole top end of the Open gun and slide on the top end of the Limited. I've (obviously) never fitted a slide to a frame so I don't know if it's a ridiculous thing to propose. even if possible it would probably be more hassle than the money saved over just having two complete guns.
 
BostonBullit said:
I was thinking a little more extreme, slide off the whole top end of the Open gun and slide on the top end of the Limited. I've (obviously) never fitted a slide to a frame so I don't know if it's a ridiculous thing to propose. even if possible it would probably be more hassle than the money saved over just having two complete guns.
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It's not extreme. But, as I asked, what are you going to do with the optic for the Open version? Pull it off, then when you want to shoot Open again, more time dicking around zeroing the C-More???
Oh yeah, don't forget having to pull out the torch so the loctite on the screws can be removed.
 
BostonBullit said:
I was thinking a little more extreme, slide off the whole top end of the Open gun and slide on the top end of the Limited. I've (obviously) never fitted a slide to a frame so I don't know if it's a ridiculous thing to propose. even if possible it would probably be more hassle than the money saved over just having two complete guns.
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What your missing is the optic is mounted to the frame, not the slide
 
TY43215 said:
What your missing is the optic is mounted to the frame, not the slide
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This. I need to not reply to threads before i've had a full complement of coffee in the morning. So running a melted optic would make this scenario more feasible but it still sounds like it would be more problems than it would be worth...especially if you had to be paying a smith an hourly rate to make everything fit well across two uppers.
 
Dan S said:
It can be done. What are you going to do with the scope when you shoot Limited? Everyone that shoots both divisions have a dedicated gun for each. Then they just grab the proper gun out of the safe, and hopefully the right mags and ammo!
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Not only can be done, HAS BEEN DONE,
back in the 90's I had a open & limited gun build. Used ACCURAILS to fit both slides, the problem was, I was too lazy to try to take the scope mount off (LOCTITED)...
sold the gun, Lopez eventually had Dan make another gun out of the .40 upper end

Why F around,[laugh2]
Just get seperate guns...[wink]
 
9X21 said:
Not only can be done, HAS BEEN DONE,
back in the 90's I had a open & limited gun build. Used ACCURAILS to fit both slides, the problem was, I was too lazy to try to take the scope mount off (LOCTITED)...
sold the gun, Lopez eventually had Dan make another gun out of the .40 upper end

Why F around,[laugh2]
Just get seperate guns...[wink]
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see, that's what the interweb is all about, learning from other peoples experiences so you don't repeat the mistakes! that and adult viewing materials, or so I've heard.

ACCURAILS is an interesting concept, I'll have to read more on it but it seems simple enough. and yes, seperate guns is the way to go. another idea thought of and discarded in record time....

I have also added the Brazos website to the parental lockout on my computer to prevent any marital issues which would arise from an empty bank account and maxed out credit card. I then set the lockout password to *mashed keyboard* [shocked]
 
BostonBullit said:
ACCURAILS is an interesting concept, I'll have to read more on it but it seems simple enough.

I have also added the Brazos website to the parental lockout on my computer to prevent any marital issues which would arise from an empty bank account and maxed out credit card. [shocked]
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ACCURAILS are fine, but un-necessary with modern machining techniques, (and someone like Dan who knows them!)

If you go to Manville, you can try one of my Brazos and a Bedell.

You may as well sip the kool-aid & and start saving up....

That HK was cool in "Collateral", but in USPSA???

Yo homie! is that my Brazos??[wink]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ
 
Accu Rails were invented during the 80's, and to do away with the squeezing and peening of slides and frames to tighten them. The slides would spring back after a while. With the slides and frames being oversize now, the process isn't necessary to build an Open or Limited gun.
 
9X21 said:
ACCURAILS are fine, but un-necessary with modern machining techniques, (and someone like Dan who knows them!)

If you go to Manville, you can try one of my Brazos and a Bedell.

You may as well sip the kool-aid & and start saving up....

That HK was cool in "Collateral", but in USPSA???

Yo homie! is that my Brazos??[wink]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ
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Plan is to be there, doing Fathers day breakfast with the kids on Sat instead of Sunday to squeeze the match in. I may just take you up on your offer, I'll gladly pay for ammo.

The USP:
Back in the day after getting my LTC I picked up a SigPro but didn't like it much, didn't fit my hand well. Then I found a USP that I could legally purchase and bought that and liked it. Picked up a Glock 22 a year or two later to see what the big Glock craze was all about and was eh on that, not great not bad. I took a bunch of time off from shooting, 9yrs or so, after moving and letting my old club membership lapse and just got back into it around new years. competition had always been about laying like a lump with a rifle and trying to punch bullseyes and I wanted to try something a little more exciting so I locked on to USPSA. didn't know if I would be all in so I tried to work with the gear I had and the USP was my favorite gun so the other two went up for sale and the money I could have spent on a USPSA specific gun got put into reloading gear so I could shoot more. The USP has been doing well for me I think, but last night I spent some time doing holster draws and dry firing with the Glock (no luck selling em so back in the safe!) and I plan to use that at practice tonight to see how it feels. if it works well I may try it in Production at Manville Sunday and then start practicing with it with an eye toward using it in Limited after making some tweeks (trigger work, sights), want to see what it's like running around with 2x the ammo and only worrying about .5x the reloads.....
 
Nothing wrong with USP for carry, just not as competitive triggers & controls wise.
I am not a purist, there are carry pistols & competition pistols. I don't believe in one gun for both. (I actually carry SIGs for their accuracy and DA to SA triggers).
If Glocks don't work for you, You should to try a 1911 based platform, the controllability is far superior...
 
9X21 said:
If Glocks don't work for you, You should to try a 1911 based platform, the controllability is far superior...
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Mr Boudrie was kind enough to let me squeeze off a half dozen rounds of 40 major with his Infinity limited gun at practice yesterday, man what a nice feeling gun; makes the various plastic production guns I have feel like toys. shooting his 170pf loads out of that felt like just a tick more flip than my 137pf light loads from the glock and a damn sight less than the 170pf loads I've fired out of the glock. good stuff right there....
 
BostonBullit said:
Mr Boudrie was kind enough to let me squeeze off a half dozen rounds of 40 major with his Infinity limited gun at practice yesterday, man what a nice feeling gun; makes the various plastic production guns I have feel like toys. shooting his 170pf loads out of that felt like just a tick more flip than my 137pf light loads from the glock and a damn sight less than the 170pf loads I've fired out of the glock. good stuff right there....
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It's because the gun is Heavy!
 
BostonBullit said:
Mr Boudrie was kind enough to let me squeeze off a half dozen rounds of 40 major with his Infinity limited gun at practice yesterday, man what a nice feeling gun; makes the various plastic production guns I have feel like toys. shooting his 170pf loads out of that felt like just a tick more flip than my 137pf light loads from the glock and a damn sight less than the 170pf loads I've fired out of the glock. good stuff right there....
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If you want a heavy gun without the heavy price, look at a EAA Witness Limited. Under $1000 ready to go
 
Supermoto said:
If you want a heavy gun without the heavy price, look at a EAA Witness Limited. Under $1000 ready to go
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(just back from google) not a bad looking gun, I'll have to keep that one on the list of prospects but I doubt I'd be able to get one here in the People's Republik. my plan was to just use the G22 for limited and some production and go the 1911 format for Open but after shooting the SVI I'm thinking it might be hard to bounce between a nice heavy gun and a light little glock. of course a good shooter can shoot anything and shoot it well, but why complicate life. from poking around it looks like retail on some of the Limited guns approaches the price of an Open gun which make sense as it looks like the only diff is the caliber, comp, and sight method....

I should start a separate thread for the associated gear for Open/Limited...maybe later today if I don't find a pre-existing one with the ol search button...
 
Dan S said:
Geeeze......make up your mind! Limited or Open![thinking]
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Chocolate or Vanilla? Yes.
Limited or Open? Yes.

When you like ice cream you want to try all the flavors, problem is there are no little freebie sample scoops in this sport...but you can also be really good at eating ice cream right from the get go without having to focus on a specific flavor so maybe that's not the best analogy [laugh].

I've only played the game under the 10rnd/per rules so I made some changes to one of my current guns, the G22, to try Limited so I could get a feel for what running a stage with less mag changes is like. Haven't used it that way yet, maybe in one of the upcoming matches. I Don't have the budget to get a "proper" Limited AND Open setup, The Boss only tolerates so much expense on my hobbies, and since I'm not at the skill level that the G22 will hold me back in Limited I'm focusing my purchasing power (or lack thereof) on Open...

maybe I try Open and find it's not for me, who knows....won't find out till I try though right??

and no one tell my wife what kind of expense 3-gun is, I may want to try that in the next year or two [laugh][laugh]
 

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