Campus carry permission, in light of VT horror

[Len-2A Training]

In VA you do NOT need a permit to own a gun, so knowing how many have permits is a moot point. VA (IIRC) also allows open carry.

VT has a large ROTC contingent, where I hope they still get basic marksmanship on campus.

VA folks grow up shooting . . . it's not MA!

 

[OAR348]

You are living in fantasy land.

B

How's that? I did not say it's not possible and that it would never happen. All I said is that I would doubt that someone would want to. I don't think a 6 foot 1 tall guy makes a very good target, do you?

 

[SemiAutoSam]

 

[FiveseveN]

I would never ask a campus official for the right to carry on campus.

I would simply make my own personal choice about what course of action was appropriate. And I would understand the potential consequences of that particular action and would be ready to deal with it.

And if you accidentally print, or someone bumps into you, here in MA you would end up with a felony conviction, spend time in jail, and never be allowed to own a firearm ever again. In my case, I'd also lose my job and my home. And probably my career.

You may be ready to "deal with" that. I'm not.

My post did not recommend carrying on campus. So your "you may be ready to deal with that" comment insinuates that I would/have/do carry on a college campus. That is false.

But like I said before, I make my own choices. I understand consquences. If I feel the need to carry outweighs any potential consequences, I will carry with or without permission.

Fortunately for me, I've never felt the need to carry a gun at any school I've attended. Thus, I've never had to take that risk.

 

[Lynne]

THAT is awesome Sam.

 

[JuergenG]

Again, the Union Leader has it right:
"Guns on campus: one is one too few"
http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=79fa4ff5-d3d0-4042-9617-6dbfce808d68

 

[bpm990d]

Thats a great link JuergenG.

Thanks.

B

 

[MrsWildweasel]

On one of the news stations last night they were interviewing some of the students from VT, and they said they wished they could have been armed, instead of feeling helpless. Shocked the heck out of me.

 

[pdm]

And if you accidentally print, or someone bumps into you, here in MA you would end up with a felony conviction, spend time in jail, and never be allowed to own a firearm ever again. In my case, I'd also lose my job and my home. And probably my career.

You may be ready to "deal with" that. I'm not.

The irony of that is apparently, as a felon, you would have a much easier time buying weapons than you would as a law-abiding citizen.

 

[hessy]

Spoke to students at MIT discussing carrying on campus. Most said that they would not be comfortable if everyone carried, but would feel OK if professors were allowed to. I guess that's the vote of confidence in professors. Not that it is going to happen-in our permits we only can carry in and from the range or keep a pistol in the Club's safe.
Also, most students criticized the VT students for the lack of self-defense skills and acting as sheep.
Overall, I feel the gun owners are royally screwed by this tragic accident.

 

[Admin]

Also, most students criticized the VT students for the lack of self-defense skills and acting as sheep.

That's a pretty bold assessment from kids who weren't there. I'm pretty sure I could kick in a door of a class room at MIT and have every coward on the floor begging for their lives if I wanted to...

 

[RKG]

While I fully subscribe to the philosophy mirrored in the Union-Leader piece, there is an even more disturbing facet of this event.

Consider this: as I understand the facts (based entirely on media reports, which probably are laced with inaccuracies), in the second phase the shooter shot and killed 30 people and shot and wounded some 20 others. Total: 50 targets each with at least one hit. Let's assume this dude was not a skilled pistol marksman and required two rounds per target; that is 100 rounds expended (and the number may be low).

The pistol was a Glock with a 13-round magazine. That means a minimum of 7 reloadings.

So what were all of these people doing while the dude is standing there shooting and reloading? Apparently, nothing; there were just sitting there waiting to be shot.

There are rules of thumb and formulas for this, with which others may be more expert than I, but in general there is a maximum number of charging unarmed targets that an armed individual can hold off; the number depends on the type of weapon he has, the closing distance to the targets, his skilll and cool, and probably some other factors that I've since forgotten, but the number that sticks in my head is 2 if armed with a knife and 2-4 if armed with a pistol and closing distance is room-length.

We seem to have engrained in our national pysche something to the effect that "sitting duck is best duck." I thought this was changing after September 11th, but maybe not. If the occupants of the second building at Virginia Tech had charged the shooter, even armed, the toll would have been reduced from 30-something to 4-something. Not bad collective odds.

 

[jon]

On one of the news stations last night they were interviewing some of the students from VT, and they said they wished they could have been armed, instead of feeling helpless. Shocked the heck out of me.

engineering school + being down south = not a stupid liberal campus.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You're forgetting the "hot reload". The Glock does not have a magazine disconnect so, by leaving a round in the chamber, the gun remains ready for instant action throughout the reloading process.

Of course, if you have multiple defenders and one is willing to take a bullet so the second can deal with the miscreant during the reload, your strategy would work.

This also assumes a basic understanding of the operation of firearms - knowledge that is lacking in a significant percentage of the population.

 

[MaverickNH]

I'm not sure I'm with the GOA's statement:

""Isn't it interesting that Utah and Oregon are the only two states that allow faculty to carry guns on campus. And isn't it interesting that you haven't read about any school or university shootings in Utah or Oregon? Why not? Because criminals don't like having their victims shoot back at them," Pratt said." http://www.upi.com/Security_Terrorism/Briefing/2007/04/17/gunfree_zones_blamed_for_tech_shootings/

I don't think that these oddities among society decide whether or not to start shooting at a school based on whether CCW is allowed or not - they know the cops are coming and plan to "go down in a blaze of glory", as they say, or swallow lead themselves when the time comes.

But I DO think allowing faculty to carry is a step in the right direction. Training all volunteer teachers, in all schools, like deputized "Air Marshall" pilots are, would be excellent, assuming their identities remained unknown to all but a few officials (fat chance, but maybe slightly less fat than before...)

 

[bpm990d]

But I DO think allowing faculty to carry is a step in the right direction. Training all volunteer teachers, in all schools, like deputized "Air Marshall" pilots are, would be excellent, assuming their identities remained unknown to all but a few officials (fat chance, but maybe slightly less fat than before...)

This is exactly the argument that the antis should be hit with, and at the same time point out that it was the same people that are the doom and gloom sayers about the airline pilots.

B

 

[Jose]

On one of the news stations last night they were interviewing some of the students from VT, and they said they wished they could have been armed, instead of feeling helpless. Shocked the heck out of me.

Those men need to haul ass to DC and Richmond to testify before Congress and the General Assembly.

 

[Jose]

But I DO think allowing faculty to carry is a step in the right direction. Training all volunteer teachers, in all schools, like deputized "Air Marshall" pilots are, would be excellent, assuming their identities remained unknown to all but a few officials (fat chance, but maybe slightly less fat than before...)

Why limit it to teachers? Anyone who can pass the screening necessary for a CHL should be able to carry anywhere.

In Virginia you can legally conceal in *gasp* all government buildings except courts. That includes police stations and even the State House.