Comm2A files against the AG on LCIs, Draper v Coakley

[Billsail]

How many *legal* gun owners will be prosecuted on the basis of spent cases, recovered as evidence? If any stamped cases are found at a crime scene, they will likely be from a stolen gun. And that's doubtful. Any criminal in possession of a stolen firearm, will quickly learn a little extra file work on the firing pin, after they file the serial number off the frame, is not much more work.

Not to mention, any spent cases off of a revolver, will go into a pocket.

On top of that, cost (passed on to the consumer) is another reason this would be a total fiasco!

IT JUST WON'T WORK !!!

 

[M1911]

They can do that but it would make them look bad if they're not inventorying fired cases, etc, and doing all the necessary administration that goes along with it.

What need is there to inventory fired cases? If the gun microstamps the serial number on the cartridge case, then take that serial number and look it up in the EOPS database. Done. No new database needed.

You are conflating the old Maryland law with new microstamping. The old Maryland law required handguns to be sold with a fired cartridge. Maryland had a database that took images of those cartridges and put them in a searchable database. That requires money for staff and the database.

But with microstamping, the gun manufacturer is required to make the gun stamp its serial number into the cartridge case. Now all you need (provided that the microstamping technology actually worked, which it doesn't) is a database that matches gun serial numbers to gun owners. We already have that database (sort of, we know the EOPS database is FUBARed).

 

[M1911]

How many *legal* gun owners will be prosecuted on the basis of spent cases, recovered as evidence? If any stamped cases are found at a crime scene, they will likely be from a stolen gun. And that's doubtful. Any criminal in possession of a stolen firearm, will quickly learn a little extra file work on the firing pin, after they file the serial number off the frame, is not much more work.

Not to mention, any spent cases off of a revolver, will go into a pocket.

On top of that, cost (passed on to the consumer) is another reason this would be a total fiasco!

IT JUST WON'T WORK !!!

Guys, you are mistakenly thinking that I am advocating microstamping as something that would work. I don't support it and I don't think it would work (simply because the microstamping technology doesn't work).

But that said, I don't see any appropriate that would be required by the state to enact such a regulation.

So, once again, what is there to stop Healey from enacting such a regulation?

 

[Serapis]

I disagree so very strongly.

The resistance was constituents calling their state senators and representatives on Beacon Hill in response to proposed legislation. The legislative process has nothing to do with regulations that she passes. Her regulations don't have to be voted on by the legislature. She writes the regulations, holds a hearing (think Communist-era show trial), and enacts the regulations. She won overwhelmingly, so she doesn't have to worry about losing her job.

Angry constituents (that's us) will call up Beacon Hill and complain. The legislators will duck and cover, but ultimately do nothing, and her regulation will stand until and unless Comm2A can shoot it down in court.

In the meantime, she gets to hold congratulatory press conferences with Handgun Control Inc. (or whatever their name is this week), Gabby Giffords, and bow-tied bumkissers from the Globe and network TV.

I know how the regulations work. Sorry I thought my post was a bit more clear.

Sorry I don't buy into the sky is falling attitude with a new AG. So many factors come into play. Mike touched on a few. Also, she stated in a debate that she didn't believe that those restrictions should be enacted through regulations through her office, but through legislation. I'm at work now so it's tough for me to cite that for you.

Do we need to remain vigilant? Yes. We have a lot of work to do in this state, and we seen HOPE of gaining done ground that was stolen from us. I will not run around screaming that the skies are falling just yet. No reason too. Now, Tollman would be a different story but people knew he was a space cadet.


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[jtnf]

I have a laser that is powerful enough, and with a spot size small enough, to make a microstamp firing pin out of this guy:
(Animating it would be a neat trick tho )

As always, such crap is foisted on the law abiding (see my signature) and the law givers know it'll be ineffective at anything beyond a soundbite on TV and political pandering.

 

[MaynardDad]

Also, she stated in a debate that she didn't believe that those restrictions should be enacted through regulations through her office, but through legislation. I'm at work now so it's tough for me to cite that for you.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...aunches-new/ewqtc6cDiFB2dbKZTg4VDI/story.html

 

[Billsail]

Guys, you are mistakenly thinking that I am advocating microstamping as something that would work. I don't support it and I don't think it would work (simply because the microstamping technology doesn't work).

But that said, I don't see any appropriate that would be required by the state to enact such a regulation.

So, once again, what is there to stop Healey from enacting such a regulation?

I never thought you were advocating microstamping. I was offering up more evidence, in support of your cause.

 

[dans]

I don't see any need for another database. If handguns were required to microstamp cartridge cases with the handgun's serial number, she could simply argue that the current DPS firearm database could be used to identify the owner of the handgun.

I worked for someone who said to me "it's just a couple of lines of code...". Even if the database exists, it isn't free to update it to include the new fields and make them searchable by them. More than likely, since this is a government job, the price would be exorbitant.

 

[Coyote33]

any chance the new AG will 'rethink' this stance and change the policy on LCI's and this avoid a lawsuit going forward?

Healy is very anti gun. She thinks the 2a doesn't mean an individual right to bear arms, she said this recently. She's a nut.

Unfortunately, Healy is also a better attorney than Coakley. She may be a bit more practical about this, which won't help us.

If anything, Healey is going to be worse. Biometric trigger locks and micro stamping were part of her platform, in addition to other things.

When does Healey start? Today? January? Is Coakley out the door as of right now? I know with the president, it doesn't happen until January. What about the governor? Senators and reps?

So, once again, what is there to stop Healey from enacting such a regulation?

How about a law prohibiting it?

 

[M1911]

I worked for someone who said to me "it's just a couple of lines of code...". Even if the database exists, it isn't free to update it to include the new fields and make them searchable by them. More than likely, since this is a government job, the price would be exorbitant.

Jesus Freaking Christ.

1) I've been a professional software developer for ~20 years.

2) No new fields are needed. We already have a firearms database (though flawed) that contains the serial number.

3) If the handgun automagically stamps the gun's serial number onto cartridge cases as they are fired, then if the police retrieve a cartridge case at the scene of a crime, they can read the serial number from the case, go to THE EOPS DATABASE THAT ALREADY EXISTS, and search it by serial number, A FEATURE THAT ALREADY EXISTS AND WORKS. (Yes, I am shouting.)

Now, you and I know that microstamping is flawed, but I see nothing preventing Healey from enacting this type of regulation. Whether she will or not remains to be seen. But I don't see any need for any appropriation. No new database needs to be created. No new fields need to be added to the database. No fields in the existing database need to be made searchable.

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How about a law prohibiting it?

And what laws is that?

 

[MaynardDad]

When does Healey start? Today? January? Is Coakley out the door as of right now?

"The terms of the secretary, treasurer and receiver-general, attorney general, and auditor shall begin with the third Wednesday in January succeeding their election and shall extend to the third Wednesday in January in the fifth year following their election and until their successors are chosen and qualified."

I know with the president, it doesn't happen until January. What about the governor?

"The terms of the governor and lieutenant-governor shall begin at noon on the Thursday next following the first Wednesday in January succeeding their election and shall end at noon on the Thursday next following the first Wednesday in January in the fifth year following their election."

Senators and reps?

"The terms of senators and representatives shall begin with the first Wednesday in January succeeding their election and shall extend to the first Wednesday in January in the third year following their election and until their successors are chosen and qualified."

Source: Article LXIV, Section 1 of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

 

[Coyote33]

...
And what laws is that?

A new one, submitted by one of the many new gun-friendly reps.

(-;

 

[M1911]

A new one, submitted by one of the many new gun-friendly reps.

Which has zero chance of even getting to the floor of the state House or Senate for a vote.

Did you think we suddenly have a pro-gun House and Senate?

 

[LoginName]

A new one, submitted by one of the many new gun-friendly reps.

(-;

Which has zero chance of even getting to the floor of the state House or Senate for a vote.

Did you think we suddenly have a pro-gun House and Senate?

It was attempted just a few months ago and failed miserably...

Amendment #7 to H.4278
Legislative Action
Mr. Dooley of Norfolk move that the bill be amended by adding the following new section:—

“SECTION X. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, no requirements shall be placed on gun owners by any authority or constitutional officer acting without the direction of the Legislature.”

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/188/House/H4278/Amendment/House/7/Text

 

[Quiet]

Jesus Freaking Christ.

1) I've been a professional software developer for ~20 years.

2) No new fields are needed. We already have a firearms database (though flawed) that contains the serial number.

3) If the handgun automagically stamps the gun's serial number onto cartridge cases as they are fired, then if the police retrieve a cartridge case at the scene of a crime, they can read the serial number from the case, go to THE EOPS DATABASE THAT ALREADY EXISTS, and search it by serial number, A FEATURE THAT ALREADY EXISTS AND WORKS. (Yes, I am shouting.)

Now, you and I know that microstamping is flawed, but I see nothing preventing Healey from enacting this type of regulation. Whether she will or not remains to be seen. But I don't see any need for any appropriation. No new database needs to be created. No new fields need to be added to the database. No fields in the existing database need to be made searchable.

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And what laws is that?

You are making some assumptions or stating facts that i am not familiar with.

Are the microstamps in fact the gun's serial number?
Will replacement firing pins be available with the same serial number?
If not there will be multiple firing pin microstamp numbers attached to a single firearm (replacements).
Can a firing pin be moved between firearms? Can one firing pin be associated with multiple firearms?

At a minimum, I see at least another table with a primary index ID column, a foreign key to the firearms table, and the microstamp number, indexes on the foreign key and the microstamp.

I see all sorts of code required to edit submissions to the EOPS database, to handle exceptions to submissions to the database, reports against the table, updated reports that detail the firearms, the primary query function to access the data by way of the microstamp.

About a day, or a day and a half at a startup.

In government, a few months to spec it out, a couple of months to code and perform unit testing, and 6 months of integration testing and user acceptance testing and deployment.

 

[Dadstoys]

The one thing that might keep her from going full retard is seeing how well things have turned out for Martha.
If she has aspirations for higher office, Making too many enemies along the way isn't a career enhancing move.
Just do your job and keep out of the political bulls*it.
You might have a shot.

 

[MaynardDad]

Are the microstamps in fact the gun's serial number?
Will replacement firing pins be available with the same serial number?
If not there will be multiple firing pin microstamp numbers attached to a single firearm (replacements).
Can a firing pin be moved between firearms? Can one firing pin be associated with multiple firearms?

At a minimum, I see at least another table …

As any good engineer, you're trying to make it work. THEY don't WANT it to work. They want it to be kind-of-plausible-but-not-actually-workable so that the selection of handguns is reduced.

ETA: It was mentioned earlier in the thread that Harshbarger's bio at Proskauer says: "Scott was the first AG to use consumer protection and safety regulations to combat handgun availability." From the horse's mouth.

 

[M1911]

You are making some assumptions or stating facts that i am not familiar with.

Are the microstamps in fact the gun's serial number?
Will replacement firing pins be available with the same serial number?
If not there will be multiple firing pin microstamp numbers attached to a single firearm (replacements).
Can a firing pin be moved between firearms? Can one firing pin be associated with multiple firearms?

At a minimum, I see at least another table with a primary index ID column, a foreign key to the firearms table, and the microstamp number, indexes on the foreign key and the microstamp.

I see all sorts of code required to edit submissions to the EOPS database, to handle exceptions to submissions to the database, reports against the table, updated reports that detail the firearms, the primary query function to access the data by way of the microstamp.

About a day, or a day and a half at a startup.

In government, a few months to spec it out, a couple of months to code and perform unit testing, and 6 months of integration testing and user acceptance testing and deployment.

Oh, FFS. You guys are just out of control.

 

[terraformer]

We are way off topic at this point.

 

[Reptile]

If she enacts micro stamping - Glock will not comply.

A 2nd defacto Glock ban.

Mission accomplished.

Then what?

 

[Waher]

S&W and Ruger will also not comply and will sue as they have in CA.

 

[jasons]

Let's get back on topic please. Someone can start separate micro-stamping thread.

 

[GlockJock]

Given the timing that could really stretch our limited, available resources (and the NRA sure as hell isn't
going to come to our rescue).

It's inevitable that in the next year or so, Comm2A is going to be faced with challenging FID/LTC suitability
denials on top of the current, lawsuit against the AG's office as well as other pending cases.

She could declare a microstamping regulation, not so much out of the pretense of "public safety", but as
a retaliatory strike (out of spite), against Comm2A for their current and any future filings by overwhelming
them (us), financially and physically.

And I say it again and implore every gun owner to listen and repeat this to every other gun owner you know : Please do as I do and DONATE DONATE DONATE to Comm2A.
Thank you, everyone.

 

[Lank]

I was hoping after losing another election I would wake up to a news report that croakley flung herself off the tobin. one can only dream/

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And I say it again and implore every gun owner to listen and repeat this to every other gun owner you know : Please do as I do and DONATE DONATE DONATE to Comm2A.
Thank you, everyone.

You aint kidding

 

[Len-2A Training]

Invite Comm2A to speak at your gun clubs. I invited them to BR&P last month and Brent opened a lot of eyes there. He's speaking at our MF&G meeting tonight and we should be first to hear what goes on in those 2 court cases today!

Hopefully it will lead to more donations on a regular basis from those that attend and learn about all the good work these guys are doing.

 

[Whutmeworry]

I'm at work now so it's tough for me to cite that for you.

Serapis, looks like you're about as hard at work as I am today!!! This forum is death on productivity.

 

[Whutmeworry]

Let's get back on topic please. Someone can start separate micro-stamping thread.

Draper vs. Coakley. Discuss!!!

 

[Serapis]

Serapis, looks like you're about as hard at work as I am today!!! This forum is death on productivity.

Yes it is. Especially with the tap a talk app for the phone.


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[M1911]

Productivity? Was ist das?

 

[tpm]

I was checking comm2a's website for updates. When do you think there might be any action from the courts?

Possible next steps will likely either be a ruling from the court on the Attorney General's MTD or the scheduling of oral arguments.