Comm2A has filed an amicus in a stun gun possession criminal case at the SJC

[Knuckle Dragger]

I found this a very interesting find. The Supreme Court's per curiam opinion does not explicitly state that stun guns are protected by the Second Amendment. It merely rejected the SJC's rational for determining that they were not. HOWEVER, information on this state website, compiled by the Massachusetts State Trial Court Law Libraries has come to the conclusion that stun guns ARE protected by the Second Amendment.

Massachusetts Law about Guns and Other Weapons

Selected Case Law

Caetano v. Massachusetts links to PDF file , 577 US __ (2016).
A stun gun is protected by the Second Amendment.

Given that this is on an official judicial branch website, I wonder if this is sufficient to estop any prosecutions?????

 

[pastera]

I found this a very interesting find. The Supreme Court's per curiam opinion does not explicitly state that stun guns are protected by the Second Amendment. It merely rejected the SJC's rational for determining that they were not. HOWEVER, information on this state website, compiled by the Massachusetts State Trial Court Law Libraries has come to the conclusion that stun guns ARE protected by the Second Amendment.

Massachusetts Law about Guns and Other Weapons



Given that this is on an official judicial branch website, I wonder if this is sufficient to estop any prosecutions?????

The court offered three explanations to support its holding that the Second Amendment does not extend to stun guns. First, the court explained that stun guns are not protected because they "were not in common use at the time of the Second Amendment’s enactment." Id., at 781, 26 N. E. 3d, at 693. This is inconsistent with Heller’s clear statement that the Second Amendment "extends . . . to . . . arms . . . that were not in existence at the time of the founding." 554 U. S., at 582.

Finally, the court used "a contemporary lens" and found" nothing in the record to suggest that [stun guns] are readily adaptable to use in the military." 470 Mass., at 781, 26 N. E. 3d, at 694. But

Heller rejected the proposition "that only those weapons useful in warfare are protected." 554 U. S., at 624–625.

These excerpts make no sense unless the SCOTUS is determining that a stun gun is an arm that is protected.

Further, Justice Alito states "By arming herself, ...she did so by using a weapon"
I don't see how a plain language reading could lead to a different observation than that a stun gun is considered a bearable arm protected by the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I don't see how a plain language reading could lead to a different observation than that a stun gun is considered a bearable arm protected by the 2nd Amendment.

Since when have the courts been bound by "plain language readings" of law?

 

[jtnf]

Since when have the courts been bound by "plain language readings" of law?

The Massachusetts courts don't bother with "plain language readings" as we know well. "Kangaroo Calisthenics reading" is more the order of the day.

 

[EC1]

OK, if stun guns are okayed, how long will it take the libs going to argue that they didn't exist when the constitution was written?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

OK, if stun guns are okayed, how long will it take the libs going to argue that they didn't exist when the constitution was written?

The MA SJC has already accepted that argument .... after SCOTUS declared such argument bogus.

 

[EC1]

The MA SJC has already accepted that argument .... after SCOTUS declared such argument bogus.

How do judges like ours ever get law degrees?

 

[terraformer]

Given that this is on an official judicial branch website, I wonder if this is sufficient to estop any prosecutions?????

I doubt it, at least w/ the "But-It's-Guns doctrine" in effect. The requirement is that the statement estopping prosecution must be from someone in a position in authority. And then there is the fact that dispositive midlevel appellate decisions don't estop prosecutions. So we need to heed appellate decisions but can't be protected by them... The system is rigged by it's nature at this point.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

My guess is that any stun case at this point will be handled by a CWOF - preserves the ADA's win record and the threat of ruinous legal fees and the possibility of a conviction can blackmail just about anyone into taking the deal.

 

[swatgig]

Given that this is on an official judicial branch website, I wonder if this is sufficient to estop any prosecutions?????

I know of two stun gun cases that were dismissed based on Caetano

 

[terraformer]

Case has been dismissed and the SJC has been notified the case is now moot. They will not get another bite at this apple.

 

[bigblue]

Case has been dismissed and the SJC has been notified the case is now moot. They will not get another bite at this apple.

So what does that mean for stun guns in MA?

 

[drgrant]

So in other words, the stun gun thing is in some kind of legal purgatory... probably not going to be prosecuted, but not legal, either... so maybe in a couple decades it'll become null?

 

[CaseHardened]

So in other words, the stun gun thing is in some kind of legal purgatory... probably not going to be prosecuted, but not legal, either... so maybe in a couple decades it'll become null?

Pretty much

 

[bigblue]

So stun guns for everyone?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

So what does that mean for stun guns in MA?

Sort of like what co-habitation, adultery and sodomy were like for a long time -- illegal but virtually unenforceable.

 

[browncoat]

Sort of like what co-habitation, adultery and sodomy were like for a long time -- illegal but virtually unenforceable.

Adultery is still illegal in MA, isn't it? As far as I know, Lawrence hasn't been applied to any of the state laws against adultery (since they aren't used much), and the law in mgl chapter 272 still stands

 

[swatgig]

Case has been dismissed and the SJC has been notified the case is now moot. They will not get another bite at this apple.

SJC can issue advisory opinions, unlike Federal Courts. They can bite if they want

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Case has been dismissed and the SJC has been notified the case is now moot. They will not get another bite at this apple.

True, but as long as the law is on the books few if any shops will dare to sell Tasers and the lesser forms of stun guns.

 

[modernhamlet]

So basically what the SCOTUS said isn't relevant in MA.

Yup, it's Thursday.

 

[terraformer]

So basically what the SCOTUS said isn't relevant in MA.

Yup, it's Thursday.

Basically.

 

[terraformer]

WaPo article.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...massachusetts-second-amendment-stun-gun-case/

NB: I was a supporter of Keehn's approach to this. It would have been Russian roulette to go back in front of the SJC on this case and it's not a huge loss for the movement since a civil case could accomplish the same thing. There was no need to put Caetano's head on the block to fix this law.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

WaPo article.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...massachusetts-second-amendment-stun-gun-case/

NB: I was a supporter of Keehn's approach to this. It would have been Russian roulette to go back in front of the SJC on this case and it's not a huge loss for the movement since a civil case could accomplish the same thing. There was no need to put Caetano's head on the block to fix this law.

The challenge now is to get the law changed, or rendered moot by court action, so vendors will feel comfortable selling real Tasers. (I don't have a great opinion of the handheld non-taser stun guns)

 

[bigblue]

The challenge now is to get the law changed, or rendered moot by court action, so vendors will feel comfortable selling real Tasers. (I don't have a great opinion of the handheld non-taser stun guns)

Oh no? Ask Ben how well those work. The video is epic.

 

[Mesatchornug]

WaPo article.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...massachusetts-second-amendment-stun-gun-case/

NB: I was a supporter of Keehn's approach to this. It would have been Russian roulette to go back in front of the SJC on this case and it's not a huge loss for the movement since a civil case could accomplish the same thing. There was no need to put Caetano's head on the block to fix this law.

Just read this article and was about to post it here; glad you beat me to it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Oh no? Ask Ben how well those work. The video is epic.

Any link to the video?

I remember Ayoob (yeah, the love him or hate him guy) lined up a bunch of shooters, hit them with the classif non-Taser stun gun, and every one was able to immediately draw and place rounds on a target.

I'd personally much rather have a can of Fox 5.3 (the 2oz or larger size, not the dinky keyring size) than a non-Taser stun gun, and I would much rather be touched with a stun gun than pepper sprayed.

 

[M1911]

Any link to the video? I remember Ayoob (yeah, the love him or hate him guy) lined up a bunch of shooters, hit them with the classif non-Taser stun gun, and every one was able to immediately draw and place rounds on a target.

He did that in LF-2, but he hit the Taser to our left arm. It wasn't much of a jolt. I imagine it would have been a lot more debilitating if it had been to the torso.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

He did that in LF-2, but he hit the Taser to our left arm. It wasn't much of a jolt. I imagine it would have been a lot more debilitating if it had been to the torso.

The term "Taser" is being mis-used to the point it is in danger if becoming a generic.

I suspect you were hit by a non-taser stun gun, not a Taser in drive stun mode (which has severe limitations compared to "shoot the wires" mode).

 

[bigblue]

Any link to the video?

I remember Ayoob (yeah, the love him or hate him guy) lined up a bunch of shooters, hit them with the classif non-Taser stun gun, and every one was able to immediately draw and place rounds on a target.

I'd personally much rather have a can of Fox 5.3 (the 2oz or larger size, not the dinky keyring size) than a non-Taser stun gun, and I would much rather be touched with a stun gun than pepper sprayed.

Half batteries and he knew it was coming. Yes I took the video the wrong way and Sean already gave me shit for it. Fk can't post a link on tapacrap, hold on.


ETA:

 

[bigblue]

Perhaps Ben can chime in on the exact model since it was his own unit he was lit up with.