CRS Firearms Matthew Hoover arrested for selling auto keycards

KBCraig

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
15,761
Likes
14,239
Location
Granite State of Mind
The original ATF search warrant used the word "etched", while some articles say "printed".


I suspect they might if the third hole was drilled, maybe even if it were merely dimpled with a punch.


Apparently the AutoKeyCard has the outline cut a few microns into the metal.

He'd have gotten away with it if only he had sprung for a process which deposited the template on top (e.g. with screen printed ink) instead of cutting into the metal. Same reason the STEN folk attach a paper template instead of scribing the tube.
That is the key (pardon the pun).

Removing material is manufacturing. Slapping a stencil on top, is not.
 

moojpg2

NES Member
Rating - 100%
10   0   0
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
2,678
Likes
4,544
Well then he is screwed.

He should have known that.

He could have had it painted on.
no, that mentality is why shit like this is happening and why the ATF is doing what it is doing, because with that boot licking mentality, next week they will decide on a whim that painting it on is a machine gun as well just so they can jam up someone they don't like. The ATF doesn't get to decide what the law is by randomly changing how they define something. No different than Rare breed and BDU getting f***sd over the FRT triggers, they follow the letter of the law and get f***ed because some dipshit at the ATF decides he doesn't like what they did so they bend the laws to fit their political persecutions. This shit has to be stopped. "oh well he should have done this or that instead, they're screwed." is exactly the type of responses the ATF and this communist regime want. The auto keycard was meant to be nothing more than a conversation starter, a novelty to bring awareness and get people talking about the insanity of the NFA and the ATF, it was simply that, a piece of protest art, its only practical function was as a bottle opener. It was never intended to actually make a lightning link out of. The ATF just didn't like it because it was a slap in the face and these guys were pro 2a activists bringing awareness to the bullshit.These guys did nothing wrong and this is purely political persecution.
 
Last edited:

Dench

NES Member
Rating - 100%
121   0   0
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
24,181
Likes
21,398
Location
FL
NFA regs define these parts as a machine gun. PSGWSP for this guy.

Hey, 67ray. Let's play you're game. Just like you said it.

Let's assume you own a wire hanger. You own one right? Or something similar? yes?

Well congratulations, you just played a stupid game and you won a stupid prize! Time to claim your winnings by calling the ATF to report you have shirts hanging off of machine gun parts in your closet.



Great job on the FUDD hot take, though. 0/10 opinion, go look into the mirror for a few hours.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Messages
1,009
Likes
1,628
The following perl code is the implementation of the RSA encryption routine:
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -s do 'bigint.pl';($_,$n)[email protected];s/^.(..)*$/0$&/;($k=unpack('B*',pack('H*',$_)))=~ s/^0*//;$x=0;$z=$n=~s/./$x=&badd(&bmul($x,16),hex$&)/ge;while(read(STDIN,$_,$w =((2*$d-1+$z)&~1)/2)){$r=1;$_=substr($_."\0"x$w,$c=0,$w);s/.|\n/$c=&badd(&bmul ($c,256),ord$&)/ge;$_=$k;s/./$r=&bmod(&bmul($r,$r),$x),$&?$r=&bmod(&bmul($r,$c ),$x):0,""/ge;($r,$t)=&bdiv($r,256),$_=pack(C,$t).$_ while$w--+1-2*$d;print}​

For a period of time back in the 90s, the US government tried to claim that the above was a "munition" and was thus illegal to "export" from the US. A bunch of people made T-shirts with the code on it, essentially daring the government to do something about it. The USG realized just how foolish they looked and backed away from the position.

There was a similar set of T-shirts with the DeCSS DVD breaker code on it in binary ("The following number is illegal"), but that was just daring someone to try to use the copyright code against them.

For some unknown reason, the government has become even stupider than it was in the 90s.
 

paul73

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
6,944
Likes
8,252
Location
MA
For some unknown reason, the government has become even stupider than it was in the 90s.
reason is known. it is only now government successfully incarcerates citizens for an any unproved INTENT of any anti-government behavior, so, citizens get kinda scared shitless.
 

The Anchor

NES Member
Rating - 100%
23   0   0
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
1,297
Likes
1,045
I cant imagine the guy going to prison for this.

It's absurd.

I think this is what he wanted though.

Maybe he wanted to be get arrested just to become a cause celeb.

I wish the folks on Fox News would cover this so people know what is going on.

It reminds me of the 1990's when 2600 printed T-Shirts with the computer code to decode DVD's.

Some people like to push the envelope of what is legal.

As a result they go to jail but when they get out they are heroes.
Justin Irvin, who actuallly made the cards and sold them, was arrested March/April 2021. MAtt and his wife, were called as witnesses in that case. to the best of my knowledge, his association with the maker was just an advertiser on his channel.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8adkwRvCHk
 

67ray

NES Member
Rating - 100%
267   0   0
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
3,322
Likes
4,079
Hey, 67ray. Let's play you're game. Just like you said it.

Let's assume you own a wire hanger. You own one right? Or something similar? yes?

Well congratulations, you just played a stupid game and you won a stupid prize! Time to claim your winnings by calling the ATF to report you have shirts hanging off of machine gun parts in your closet.



Great job on the FUDD hot take, though. 0/10 opinion, go look into the mirror for a few hours.

Ok if you want to be stupid, then let's continue your game.

Let's put two cases into Federal Court in front of a jury. Let's see how the case can be made for a coat hanger, vs. a case made for lightning link printed on a piece of sheet metal. Then, let's see what the jury thinks OK?

You and others are so fixated on the wording of the law that you blind yourself to reality of the justice system in this country. For example, the obvious intention of a coat hanger is to hang clothes. What is the obvious intention of a metal card with a lightning link printed on it? (Please don't say bottle opener because then I can only believe you are high.) How about coat hanger wire bent into the shape of a lighting link? What if that same part happens to be in your range bag?

Keep thinking this is bogus and this guy will get off scott free. How about this I'll bet you $100 he doesn't - want to put your money where your mouth is?

He PSG, and will WSP

.
 

Dench

NES Member
Rating - 100%
121   0   0
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
24,181
Likes
21,398
Location
FL
Ok if you want to be stupid, then let's continue your game.

Let's put two cases into Federal Court in front of a jury. Let's see how the case can be made for a coat hanger, vs. a case made for lightning link printed on a piece of sheet metal. Then, let's see what the jury thinks OK?

You and others are so fixated on the wording of the law that you blind yourself to reality of the justice system in this country. For example, the obvious intention of a coat hanger is to hang clothes. What is the obvious intention of a metal card with a lightning link printed on it? (Please don't say bottle opener because then I can only believe you are high.) How about coat hanger wire bent into the shape of a lighting link? What if that same part happens to be in your range bag?

Keep thinking this is bogus and this guy will get off scott free. How about this I'll bet you $100 he doesn't - want to put your money where your mouth is?

He PSG, and will WSP

.
I can't keep thinking the guy will get off free. Why you ask!!!!! Simple, agent 67. I never said that.

I'm not fixated on anything. I just think people going to jail for whatever the ATF is currently claiming is illegal, which changes non stop, is dumb.

The ATF gets away with retarded policy and decision one after another because 2A "supporters" like yourself go along with it.
 

67ray

NES Member
Rating - 100%
267   0   0
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
3,322
Likes
4,079
I can't keep thinking the guy will get off free. Why you ask!!!!! Simple, agent 67. I never said that.

I'm not fixated on anything. I just think people going to jail for whatever the ATF is currently claiming is illegal, which changes non stop, is dumb.

The ATF gets away with retarded policy and decision one after another because 2A "supporters" like yourself go along with it.

So your position is that this sheet metal lightning link imprint is legal, even though it will take about a minute and a pair of scissors to make it a functioning lightning link? That the ATF is only 'claiming' that it meets the legal the definition of an NFA part, because well, technically it won't fit in a gun? Your explanation is NOT "dench".

Your fallacy that 2A supporters are going along with a decision is so flawed. Not the only the ATF but any jury, any judge will plainly see this is an illegal machine gun per NFA regs. And you should see the same. Sorry bud if you seriously believe that you are on one serious bender.

Try focusing energy on real issues like Mass byzantine permitting or MSR constraints rather than accusing our own over a ridiculous criminal who got pinched on social media.
 
Rating - 100%
65   0   0
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
2,673
Likes
5,989
Location
Inman, SC
So your position is that this sheet metal lightning link imprint is legal, even though it will take about a minute and a pair of scissors to make it a functioning lightning link? That the ATF is only 'claiming' that it meets the legal the definition of an NFA part, because well, technically it won't fit in a gun? Your explanation is NOT "dench".

Your fallacy that 2A supporters are going along with a decision is so flawed. Not the only the ATF but any jury, any judge will plainly see this is an illegal machine gun per NFA regs. And you should see the same. Sorry bud if you seriously believe that you are on one serious bender.

Try focusing energy on real issues like Mass byzantine permitting or MSR constraints rather than accusing our own over a ridiculous criminal who got pinched on social media.
To be fair, I could turn any glock or AR full auto pretty quickly. Knowledge doesn't make ordinary items illegal, same goes with the shoestring and coathanger. I believe intent does.
 

Dadstoys

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
18,329
Likes
18,571
Location
North Shore
I cant imagine the guy going to prison for this.

It's absurd.

I think this is what he wanted though.

Maybe he wanted to be get arrested just to become a cause celeb.

I wish the folks on Fox News would cover this so people know what is going on.

It reminds me of the 1990's when 2600 printed T-Shirts with the computer code to decode DVD's.

Some people like to push the envelope of what is legal.

As a result they go to jail but when they get out they are heroes.
He's not going to jail for the card , he's going to jail for repeatedly sticking his middle finger up at them.
 

PATRON

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 99.2%
127   1   1
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
6,135
Likes
5,816
Funny that they won’t go after the gangs using Glock machine switches but go after a guy using drawing on a credit card
This has nothing to do with taking the bad guy off the street,or illegal machine gun part.It's all about making people think they are taking bad guys off the street,
and using some poor bastard as the patsy.
 

Rob Boudrie

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
42,019
Likes
22,499
NFA regs define these parts as a machine gun. PSGWSP for this guy.
The question is "at what point does the card become a part". I believe these outlines were engraved rather than just printed. I wonder if printed alone would meet the definition. And what if it was printed on a sticker that could be applied to sheet metal as a template, or perhaps a stencil of a template or gcode for a cnc.

In general playing games with the letter of the law vs. what the ATF thinks the law should be is a low benefit, high risk game. Like advertising there are guns legally in you trunk on school property in MA or legally carrying a loaded SBR on a sling under your trenchcoat in the summer.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom