Debanning a Hungarian SA-85M

[JenkkiMike]

I picked up my second AK this weekend, another Hungarian SA-85M. This one is a post-ban KBI import complete with the ban era thumbhole stock. My plan was to make a "modernized" AK with polymer furniture and a sight mounted optic using a WASR but I found this Hungarian and had to get it as a younger sibling to my Kassnar import underfolder.

A previous owner started the debanning process by threading the barrel. I'm hoping the NES community can point me to a good gunsmith in Southern NH who can help me by removing the neutered front sight block and gas block and pressing on replacements with the bayonet lugs. I also want to put in a full length gas tube to replace the short AMD65 style one that is on there. I've managed to source all of the correct parts that I need and just lack the tools/experience to tackle this job. My plan is to "modernize" the rifle without making any permanent changes that can't be reversed. For example I'll use a Master Mount side mount that doesn't require drilling into the receiver. I'd appreciate any guidance or advice from those of you who have lots of AK building experience.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Why do you want to remove the AMD65 gas tube? Especially if you're going to put on a side rail base?

 

[JenkkiMike]

Why do you want to remove the AMD65 gas tube? Especially if you're going to put on a side rail base?

I am using my Kassnar import as a reference and it has a standard length, ported gas tube with bayonet lugs on the gas block and FSB. I was planning on throwing a cleaning rod in there so it looks more like that Kassnar up front. That's my only reasoning really. I know it's mostly cosmetic.

Can you explain how the side rail base comes into play?

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I am using my Kassnar import as a reference and it has a standard length, ported gas tube with bayonet lugs on the gas block and FSB. I was planning on throwing a cleaning rod in there so it looks more like that Kassnar up front. That's my only reasoning really. I know it's mostly cosmetic.

Can you explain how the side rail base comes into play?

I asked because some guys will put optics on gas tube mounts. I'm not a fan of gas tube mounts in comparison to RS Regulate side mounts.

If you're going for a more modern AK build, I'd say don't go with a cleaning rod. Modern AKs generally forgo the cleaning rod.

 

[JenkkiMike]

I was leaning towards this product for a side mounted rail for an optic. I know I could spend a lot less and drill into the receiver but I like that this one requires no permanent alterations to it.

AK Master Mount | Rugged, Reliable AK Accessories

Rugged, reliable AK accessories with no need for drilling, riveting, or gunsmithing. We’re dedicated to improving the AK’s functionality and shooting experience without permanent modifications to the rifle.

akmastermount.com

 

[daekken]

I was leaning towards this product for a side mounted rail for an optic. I know I could spend a lot less and drill into the receiver but I like that this one requires no permanent alterations to it.

AK Master Mount | Rugged, Reliable AK Accessories

Rugged, reliable AK accessories with no need for drilling, riveting, or gunsmithing. We’re dedicated to improving the AK’s functionality and shooting experience without permanent modifications to the rifle.

akmastermount.com

I have one on my Arsenal. No issues. RS Regulate side mount.

 

[JenkkiMike]

After a little more research I realized that I can't change the length of the gas tube without changing the barrel too. I'll just have the gas block and front sight base pressed off and replaced with the one's that have the bayonet lugs still attached. It won't fit a bayonet but I can still throw a cleaning rod in there and call it a day. Does anybody know a gunsmith in southern NH who can do that?

 

[akma]

The gas block is to far back to clip a bayonet on. The position of the gas block looks like the ones on an AMD-65 where they use a shorter gas tube. Which means the gas port is to far back. You may want to just rebarrel with the components in the right position.

 

[JenkkiMike]

The gas block is to far back to clip a bayonet on. The position of the gas block looks like the ones on an AMD-65 where they use a shorter gas tube. Which means the gas port is to far back. You may want to just rebarrel with the components in the right position.

I realized that after a little research. I don't want to go through the trouble of re-barreling a perfectly functional rifle so the plan is to just swap the gas block and FSB with ones that have the lugs and put a cleaning rod on it. Then slap on KVAR polymer furniture and a side mounted optic. I found this picture in an old thread on another forum and it's almost exactly what I will do. If I were smarter I would have realized this all before ordering the gas block and FSB but it's too late now so I may as well put them to use. This whole experiment is making me want to buy proper tools and learn more about AK building.

 

[akma]

Just beware it is easy to crush the tip of the barrel removing those parts. Cut down an old slant brake to protect the threads. The original parts may have been forced on making it near impossible to remove them too. Also there are different diameter spec of parts and barrels so they need to be matched. Usually there are numbers stamped on the barrel under the handguard like 2 2 2 2. Those are to tell the assemblers what spec part to use from front sight to the trunnion. There should be .001 to .0015 interference with the components. To tight and you could crush, jam or bend your barrel. If there isn't enough the parts will flop around needing to knurl the barrel to hold the parts in place. Measure your barrel and components to make sure everything will work before you press them on and use some lube too.

 

[JenkkiMike]

That sounds like a lot of trouble for a cleaning rod. I wish that I had posted here before ordering the FSB and gas block replacements.

 

[akma]

It is what it is. Go to AKFiles.com and you'll see whats involved. Never mind a 12 ton press and a variety of specialty jigs to support the barrel and drill and repin the components.

populating ak barrel - YouTube

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It could be cheaper to buy a completed headspaced kit do an 80% and rivet it all together. Just sell your current one on.

 

[JenkkiMike]

It is what it is. Go to AKFiles.com and you'll see whats involved. Never mind a 12 ton press and a variety of specialty jigs to support the barrel and drill and repin the components.

populating ak barrel - YouTube

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It could be cheaper to buy a completed headspaced kit do an 80% and rivet it all together. Just sell your current one on.

My original intention was just to get a WASR, change the furniture for polymer furniture, put a side mounted optic on it and call it a day. Then I saw the postban SA-85M for around the same price as a new WASR and jumped on it since I like my underfolder so much. I'll just live with short gas system and lack of bayonet lugs/cleaning rod and stick to my original plan of putting polymer furniture and a side mounted optic on it. I like tinkering with stuff but building AKs is definitely beyond my current skill level. I'll use the funds needed to get the proper tools and spend them on 7.62x39 and shoot this thing.

 

[akma]

You are kind of stuck for what you want. That's building territory. Even putting a rail on is a project. They need to be drilled and riveted. You actually build an AK. You pretty much assemble an AR.
You will have to remove several factory rivets to install a scope mount. That would be a real pain.

ak scope rail installation - YouTube

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[JenkkiMike]

The Master Mount installation looks like it’s within my abilities to install. I’ve done stuff like that before. If there’s a will there’s a way. It’s the pressing on of barrel components that I don’t want to mess with myself.