Does your club have a "no blue sky" system?

[jtnf]

If you think a no-blue-sky system is cost prohibitive, then you haven't priced a 100-yard-long indoor range lately...

I'll try to troll up the link, but I HAVE priced a major indoor range (sort of...)
Doing research on air handling for ranges, I found a public Request for Quote and Quote Response. Granted, it is an extreme example (municipal / .gov range in Florida) with three indoor ranges (two pistol and one rifle) but the price was well over $6M.


--Edit - I'm the King of Google!

http://edocs.ci.orlando.fl.us/asv/paperlessagenda.nsf/6acecff5f30ecb0d85256bd0005abae0/0708bd7ed9a634c2852573a900741c2a/$FILE/Action%20Target%20Quote.PDF

20 lanes of Tactical pistol, 20 lanes of qualification pistol, and fifteen lanes of rifle.
Both pistol ranges heated, cooled, and filtered to NIOSH standards, rifle heated filtered to NIOSH standards.
The quote is line-itemed. FUN read.

 

[M1911]

I'll try to troll up the link, but I HAVE priced a major indoor range (sort of...)
Doing research on air handling for ranges, I found a public Request for Quote and Quote Response. Granted, it is an extreme example (municipal / .gov range in Florida) with three indoor ranges (two pistol and one rifle) but the price was well over $6M.

Which is far, far above the cost of a blue sky system. A blue sky system isn't cheap, but it is nowhere close to the cost of a similarly sized indoor range.

 

[richc]

IMHO that's just wrong. WTF???

I'm a responsible shooter. I could not join a club that basically puts the functional equivalent of a straight jacket on shooters.

http://www.hhrg.org/outr.html

Here's what they have in Haverhill, MA.

 

[Jimmy Hoffa]

https://tivertongunclub.com/activities/outdoorRange/

 

[M1911]

I'm a responsible shooter.

Unfortunately, not all shooters are responsible. Go to the indoor range at most any club and look up at the baffles. You'll see bullet impacts on the baffles.

 

[warwickben]

Unfortunately, not all shooters are responsible. Go to the indoor range at most any club and look up at the baffles. You'll see bullet impacts on the baffles.

Some them I don't even know how people hit them. At mass rifle at the short out door range it's like magic bullets lol.

 

[M1911]

Some them I don't even know how people hit them.

I've been at more than one range where some moron has hit the first baffle, which required the gun to be pointed up almost 45 degrees above the horizontal. I don't understand how you do that without it being intentional, but the evidence is clearly there on the baffle that some moron managed to do so.

 

[warpig]

Would be interested to see how often the outer baffles get hit. I have seen many close baffles torn up pretty good.

- - - Updated - - -

I've been at more than one range where some moron has hit the first baffle, which required the gun to be pointed up almost 45 degrees above the horizontal. I don't understand how you do that without it being intentional, but the evidence is clearly there on the baffle that some moron managed to do so.

I was told that it happened a lot when people started their draw from above their head, and lowered it onto the target.

 

[Artifact]

Baffles that prevent ANY shot from leaving the range. Basically, if you can't see the sky you can't shoot out of the range.

OCSA in Pembroke has a newly deployed No Blue Sky baffle. Massive, and expensive, I'm pretty sure it'll stop a 50BMG.

PM me if you want to check it out or meet it's designer. I'm sure he'd be game to share it's details.

OCSA went from being fun and enjoyable to not so much anymore.

 

[newportri]

https://tivertongunclub.com/activities/outdoorRange/

This is a professional system that was done by Range Systems I believe. It is a combination of a series of baffles at various distances (the range is a 200 yard range). The shooting position is located so that the shooter is at the back end of the overhead roof instead of the front which is more typical. This is so that there is less blue sky in front of the shooter that will have to be covered with baffles. The baffles themselves are half inch steel I believe that have rubber plates on top of them. I don't know how thick the rubber is, but I am guessing a couple of inches. They are made to withstand 50BMG (the wood baffle system in an earlier post is not going to stop much). There is also a backstop with granular rubber at 200/100/25 yards. The rubber backstops and baffles are recycled and we don't pay for new ones, but the company that does it get the lead/copper so I guess you can say we 'pay' for it.
I believe the range cost about $600,000 a couple of years ago. We did it because there are some houses behind the range that would love to shut us down and if one bullet left the range and hit the houses behind we would probably be shut down. So far everyone seems to be pretty happy with the range and we also did a lot of other very nice upgrades that added to the cost such as getting electricity, surveillance cameras, fence, and proper shooting benches.
Not only is it a very safe range, but it is also environmentally safe as well since we capture all the lead that is fired on the rifle/pistol range.

 

[drgrant]

If I was a member of a club talking about a system like this, I wouldn't be helping them research it. I'd tell them to take a hike and join a different club. Seriously.

If people at your range can't keep rounds on the berm, the solution is to KICK THEM OUT, not cater to them. If you can't keep rounds on the berm there's a 99% chance you're doing lots of other things that are very dangerous/stupid.

I think it depends on the reason why. Some places have been shut down because of rounds leaving the range, blah blah blah... and in that case, usually they have to do a big dog and pony show to get them re opened. Putting these systems often appeases sheep.

If they're doing a no blue sky system "for the hell of it" then I agree, it's usually ****ing stupid/unnecessary. Beef up the berm a bit and keep shitbirds off the ranges.

The trash can/pipe thing though.... that's never acceptable. Just plow the range in and be done with it at that point. Worthless.

-Mike

 

[Fattman]

https://tivertongunclub.com/activities/outdoorRange/

That is actually pretty nice and does not have same "appeal" as HHRG solution.

 

[kevin9]

http://www.hhrg.org/outr.html

Here's what they have in Haverhill, MA.

Reminds me of a really bad made-for-TV movie (jump to 1:12).

 

[newportri]

You would think that most people can keep the rounds in the berm, but that is not always the case and people do stupid stuff. Just look at many indoor ranges, they often have bullet marks in the ceiling If that was outside the bullet would most likely not hit the backstop.
It is also very hard to prove that a bullet went over the backstop after the fact and most people would deny it happened if they were asked.

 

[Chet0729]

I think this type of system is what they were considering at WPRC

 

[Mass-diver]

We have 24/7 video at Marshfield too.

As other clubs have found out (scituate ?) neighbors may try to fabricate claims to shut clubs down sad but true

 

[jtnf]

We have 24/7 video at Marshfield too.

As other clubs have found out (scituate ?) neighbors may try to fabricate claims to shut clubs down sad but true

Truth:
My buddy in Michigan had a neighbor wander into his club intending to raise hell. VERY small private club, probably under 150 members, in a relatively rural area (same story, been there a long time / neighbor encroachment.)
This woman drove in thru the unlocked gate, found a group of guys near the clubhouse, asked for someone in charge, and proceeded to tell them tales of woe and how she was going to lawyer up and call the local constabulary for the three 'bullets' she found near her house.
She held out her palm with three .357 mag SHELLS. Shiny brass, the way Dave tells it.

They told her to go ahead and lawyer up, and make sure to pay a non-refundable deposit.

 

[xtry51]

Holy shit that's absurd. Yeah, wouldn't go to that "range" in a million years.

Someone ****ed up that sign, it's supposed to say "Think Retard"

 

[newportri]

We have 24/7 video at Marshfield too.

As other clubs have found out (scituate ?) neighbors may try to fabricate claims to shut clubs down sad but true

That's what happened in Tiverton. The neighbors filed a complaint with the police and gave them several bullets they claimed they found in the yard. It was obvious that the bullets had never been fired and the police never went any further. In this case I think it was good that a police report was filed since now they are on record for being stupid.

 

[Almostelmo]

That's what happened in Tiverton. The neighbors filed a complaint with the police and gave them several bullets they claimed they found in the yard. It was obvious that the bullets had never been fired and the police never went any further. In this case I think it was good that a police report was filed since now they are on record for being stupid.

Sounds like yhey should have been charged with making false claims.

 

[warwickben]

Holy shit that's absurd. Yeah, wouldn't go to that "range" in a million years.

Someone ****ed up that sign, it's supposed to say "Think Retard"

Another thing it block your full view of the range . So if some one forgets to turn flashing lights on or switch flags . Then you show up you could be shooting down range and never know some one was down there .

 

[kevin9]

Another thing it block your full view of the range . So if some one forgets to turn flashing lights on or switch flags . Then you show up you could be shooting down range and never know some one was down there .

Engineered by Acme Corporation in consultation with E.J. Fudd BS,MS,FOS.

 

[Kicker96FS]

Another thing it block your full view of the range . So if some one forgets to turn flashing lights on or switch flags . Then you show up you could be shooting down range and never know some one was down there .

That's what I was thinking when I saw the finished product. Besides the full retard thing...........

 

[spt_1955]

Some them I don't even know how people hit them. At mass rifle at the short out door range it's like magic bullets lol.

We've all seen them. If you have not then you are not paying attention. The favorite at my club was when somebody destroyed a range camera on the rail below the shooting bench while trying to clear a misfeed.

Also, as has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread, the MAJOR reason for putting in a "no sky" baffle system is to be able to show that a bullet cannot leave the range when the club has to respond to claims of rounds leaving the range.

 

[mac1911]

OCSA went from being fun and enjoyable to not so much anymore.

Which club in the area is more fun? I don't see the connection between the wall and no more fun? Basically gone are the days of shooting tree stumps, washer machines and anything else other than paper and maybe water bottles for most clubs.
Sadly there became a day when the idiots out numbered the good folks.
I remember vividly as a JR shooter the club had nothing more than a back stop. No huts, benches , trash cans NOTHING but space. You could shoot anything as long as it was down range. Ahh the good old days when people picked up their trash and brought home with them.
I want a,place to shoot so anything to keep a club open is fine by me.

 

[mac1911]

We have 24/7 video at Marshfield too.

As other clubs have found out (scituate ?) neighbors may try to fabricate claims to shut clubs down sad but true

I might be wrong but what killed scituate was the ranges and buildings put up with out permits....was it not?

 

[Mass-diver]

I might be wrong but what killed scituate was the ranges and buildings put up with out permits....was it not?

http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/scituate/2012/04/new_land_purchases_prompt_conc.html

 

[KBCraig]

I love baffles.

I hate ROs.

I would shoot at any range with baffles, because I consider that reasonable. Any range with ROs is the kind of range I would never belong to, because those are the ranges treating everyone like idiots.

 

[newportri]

I love baffles.

I hate ROs.

I would shoot at any range with baffles, because I consider that reasonable. Any range with ROs is the kind of range I would never belong to, because those are the ranges treating everyone like idiots.

We had ROs for a little while before the baffles were installed, and I didn't mind them. The ROs actually gave me a lot more freedom than the range rules gave me. I was able to draw from the holster and "rapid fire" while practicing for USPSA/IDPA since they saw that I was doing it safely. However, they didn't hesitate to tell shooters if they were doing anything unsafe such as pointing the gun over the berm while getting ready to shoot. I protects us from range idiots and it wasn't nearly as bad with ROs as I thought it would be, but it will require that a lot of people volunteers to keep the range open.

 

[drgrant]

Holy shit that's absurd. Yeah, wouldn't go to that "range" in a million years.

Someone ****ed up that sign, it's supposed to say "Think Retard"

There are ways to build baffles (if -needed- which isn't most of the time) but that ain't one of them.... I wouldn't shoot there either. I'm sure having a long, dark tunnel the diameter of a trash can really helps your sight picture, too.

-Mike