Drunk Russian soldiers storm Crimean cafe and go on shooting rampage
WARNING, DISTRESSING CONTENT: Russian mercenary troops stormed a cafe in Crimea, beating up locals and causing carnage
www.the-express.com
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Drunk Russian soldiers storm Crimean cafe and go on shooting rampage in sickening footage
- Thread starter Reptile
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www.the-express.com
Yosemite Sam
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Ahhhhhhh…, they are Russians, no ?
Would you expect them to have bought tea & crumpets for the locals ?
Would you expect them to have bought tea & crumpets for the locals ?
MisterHappy
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LOL, "WARNING, DISTRESSING CONTENT"
Yes, it makes me cry to see ammo wasted like that. Also FFS, something doesn't exactly pass the smell test. Crimeans are typically Russian oriented and their persecution by Ukrainians is one of the reasons Russia pushed into Ukraine.
Yes, it makes me cry to see ammo wasted like that. Also FFS, something doesn't exactly pass the smell test. Crimeans are typically Russian oriented and their persecution by Ukrainians is one of the reasons Russia pushed into Ukraine.
Alex9661
NES Member
A little background. I spent countless hours following this war. I'm fluent in both Russian and Ukrainian and many years ago I did spend several months in Crimea. I somewhat actively participate in massive discussions of this conflict on two other boards(not the clown show we have here) and bring info from Russian, Ukrainian and Polish sources and occasionally translate into English things that robo translators can't properly handle.
Now serious question, not a personal attack. What's your source of this garbage? I'm genuinely interested why a lot of supposedly conservative Americans express pro Russian views.
Boghog1
NES Member
How is it pro Russian to question the report?
slugworth
NES Member
Because some conservative commentators automatically take the position that if team WEF/GlobalHomo/Deep State is Pro something then they must be against it. (Steve Bannon being one of the biggest loud mouths with zero nuance on it).
Russia went from being a sideshow backwater gas station with nukes to being 'A based last bastion against globalism' or some other bullshit overnight, even though Russia is best buds with China which is behind promoting wokeness to undermine the west and Russia/the USSR invented wokeness as means of destabilization before China picked up the torch in the 1990s. They promote it abroad while banning it at home.
Supporting Ukraine maintaining its independence while demanding that not one dime of US taxpayer money go there until our own house is order, as it is a European problem that they should be paying for, is a sensible position. This lunacy that Russia is somehow going to be an ally against China, 'because they were an ally in WW2' is ridiculous. They spent half of WW2 on the other side and then spent half a century oppressing half of Europe (doing so US/UK Lend Lease material no less) because FDR's government was full of commies. Russia is no one's friend unless it momentarily benefits them no different than China's attitude.
Alex9661
NES Member
There is a reason I bolded a part of his post. I'm interested in his statement on the alleged persecution of the residents of Crimea, not in his questioning of the incident involving a bunch of Russian soldiers.
Firsthand information from over the last 10 years. Several families I know who fled Crimea. 2 PhD's who lived there many years and still have families there. Work trips to the region before this mess went big.
Congratulations on your language and internet skills.
Additionally- Call it a illegitimate reason if you like, problems in Crimea did provide Russia with a reason to push forward. This conflict is terrible for what it does to the innocent victims, but I don't see it as a clear cut 'good guy vs bad guy' situation. NATO hands are not clean in this deal either.
Russia could have made a deal to lease Sevastopol as a port and naval base and obtain road/rail access. Instead they invaded twice after long campaign of little green men and immigration. They have been doing the same in other parts of central Asia and eastern Europe to create the pretext of 'protecting ethnic Russians'.
No different than if Mexico decided to invade California and Texas 'to protect Mexicans' after spending decades encouraging their poorest citizens to immigrate for work and send money home.
NATO's dirty hands amount to encouraging Ukraine to integrate to the west without providing real security guarantees to the point angry abusive ex boyfriend Russia thought they could get away with a shotgun marriage without much resistance or long term blowback. After the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle and getting away with the initial invasion under Obama, I think Putin had good reason to think he could grab whatever he wanted all the way up into Moldova without NATO responding in any meaningful way and use the success of such a major victory to bully the former Warsaw Pact hostages into leaving 'paper tiger' NATO.
Putin was wary enough of loose cannon Trump to not do anything to Ukraine, particularly after Soleimani got whacked during chocolate cake with Xi.
Where in central Asia and eastern Europe, at least in the last 15 years? Belarus? Those were joint exercises.
What would you think about Russia and China staging war games in Lake Superior? NATO poking the bear in the Black Sea is no different. I do agree that NATO courting Ukraine without any security guarantee was a problem. Not saying I agree that Ukraine should join NATO, just that our kindergarten diplomacy was a C-F.
Be fair, though. That's apples to oranges. The Black Sea is partly a NATO lake: Turkey controls access from the Med. By contrast, the Great Lakes have nothing to do with China nor with Russia.
The better analog would be the Bering Sea, and as we all know, Russia and China do stage war games there all the time. Somehow, we've managed to restrain ourselves from invading. Twice. Because we know the difference between a taunt and a threat.
Georgia, Moldova, Poland (Kaliningrad border), Estonia, and Latvia.
Stuff like this has been common:
Russians open new front after Estonian official is captured in 'cross-border raid'
Eston Kohver taken to Moscow and paraded on TV as 'spy' two days after Obama's visit to Baltic state
www.theguardian.com
Not comparable to Ukraine.Georgia, Moldova, Poland (Kaliningrad border), Estonia, and Latvia.
Stuff like this has been common:
Russians open new front after Estonian official is captured in 'cross-border raid'
Eston Kohver taken to Moscow and paraded on TV as 'spy' two days after Obama's visit to Baltic state
Boghog1
NES Member
EstoniaGeorgia, Moldova, Poland (Kaliningrad border), Estonia, and Latvia.
Stuff like this has been common:
Russians open new front after Estonian official is captured in 'cross-border raid'
Eston Kohver taken to Moscow and paraded on TV as 'spy' two days after Obama's visit to Baltic state
View: https://youtu.be/aU6VBTGjYkk?feature=shared
Estonia
View: https://twitter.com/MFAestonia/status/1766352615451803658
And if you look at the replies to that thread Russophiles are trying to claim they were fighting Nazis and rebuilt Estonia when they in fact invaded Estonia first before the Nazis and did f*** nothing but loot the country until their last batch of a**h***s were kicked out in 1994.
ridleyman
NES Member
I'm certainly not pro-Russian, but I don't think that we need to send anything to the corrupt Ukrainian leadership. I feel for the soldiers on the front lines protecting their homeland, but that's lazy and cheap Europe's job to step up. They have the wealth and the weapons technology to support their neighbors.
We need to support Taiwan and Israel, who have no such benefactors besides us. Taiwan should be turned into a porcupine, militarily speaking, and Israel should get what they want so they can test it, use it, make it better, and send it back.
Or true enemies are China and Iran. Iran can be neutralized with a few thousand cruise missiles and MOABs, and we should extricate ourselves from China and form ironclad alliances with Vietnam, Thailand, Japan, Philippines, etc.
These two statements are hard to reconcile, logically. If Europe should support its neighbors, surely we should support ours? And Taiwan and Israel... aren't ours.
ridleyman
NES Member
Use your imagination and think big picture. Would you feel better if I took out the word "neighbor"?
And would you feel even better if we sent weapons to Canada and Mexico? Good Lord!
No, but I don't think "because they're not our neighbor, they're Europe's" is an airtight argument.
There are a dozen reasons not to help Ukraine, and geography might be one of them, but suggesting "it's Europe's problem" is disingenuous. Israel, strictly speaking, is the Middle East's problem: why, fundamentally, are they still our clients after 70-odd years of independence? Same question for Taiwan?
Ukraine might well be Europe's problem, but that continent is packed with NATO allies. Like it or not (and I don't, really) that gives us skin in the game, even though we might not want it there. I just think it's more nuanced than you seem to think it is.
ridleyman
NES Member
You apparently do not recognize that Israel, all other arguments notwithstanding, is of strategic importance to us. They represent a bastion of democracy, stability, human rights, and a diversified economy in a crazy region in which we do have an interest, vis-a-vis trade, military access, oil/petro chemicals, etc.
Taiwan, IMHO, is mainly perceived as a bulwark against China's hegemonic goals. I'm guessing, hoping, that you understand why it would be in our interest to prevent China from uncontrolled expansion into the Pacific.
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