Faraday box and nuclear attack and EMP

[Silverguns6]

One scenario which comes up often is a terrorist nuke attack or any nuclear attack.
With a nuke comes the EMP which renders anything electronic useless.
I don't know a whole lot about EMPs and I'm hoping someone can fill me in on the short and long term effects of an EMP. I know that my communication equipment is critical as is my GPS and vehicles. I've always wanted to build my own Faraday box but I don't know how much one would cost or how exactly to build one.

I live over 60 mi from NYC, 10 or so miles from Hartford CT, 45mi from New Haven CT and 25 or so miles from Springfield MA. I don't know what the effective radius of an EMP from lets say a 10KT nuke is. If a 10KT nuke hit NYC, would I be in the clear?


Has anyone here built a Faraday box?

To you, how high of a threat do you consider a nuclear attack by terrorists in the form of a dirty bomb?

Are the effects of an EMP permanent?

-Dave

 

[P-14]

Silverguns:

A dirty bomb is not a nuclear fission device and there is no EMP from it. It is radioactive material strapped to a conventional bomb and then detonated.

Imagine that a dirty bomb is like a watermelon in the middle of a room. If the watermelon explodes, the people in the room and the walls of the room are covered with watermelon guts. When you clean up the watermelon guts, there is no more mess. It is the same with a dirty bomb. Clean up the mess and there is no radioactivity contamination left on people or things.

As to your other questions, Google is your friend. Please use it. You can also search the forum as this topic has been discussed here many times.

 

[coastie]

Buy more food and water. The effects of EMP on small objects like your CB, GPS etc are going to be minimal. Basically if you are close enough to a nuclear blast to screw up your Ipod you have bigger things to worry about. From what I understand the long term risk involves the long line comms and power grid. Things like transformers, transfer stations etc could be damaged. Prep for EMP the way you would for a long term power outage. A grid down type scenario. Food water and shelter. You are in CT. If something happens in Nov/December can you heat your house, and feed/ water yourself until probably July/ August when real harvests start coming in? Sure you get greens and veggies before them but you arent going to live on them. Any game would be gone in a month tops. If it makes you feel better throw an old CB and GPS in an ammo can and put it in your basement but I wouldnt spend much time/money on prepping specifically for EMP.

 

[BenDover]

Anything with long wires (conductive) is at risk for EMP. Power lines, antennas, guy wires, rebar in concrete, railroad tracks, etc. Any electrical device connected to or near these things is at risk from getting fried in an EMP or solar flare.

Theres no way anyone without serious experience will be able to design an effective faraday cage. Store your SFTF electronics in whatever fully metal container you can and hope for the best. Cookie tins, ammo cans with the lids grounded to the body are good choices.

 

[Palladin]

ammo can = faraday box

 

[Scarecrow]

EMP is not something that lingers, if your electronics are shielded during the EMP, they *should* function just fine after the fact. I'd be more worried about the nuke itself, since (as I recall) the EMP does not exceed the blast radius. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again in the future, but this is what we have been taught during our useless "face to boom, face to blast" crap the Army put me through in basic when I asked about the EMP from a nuke and the possibility of it taking out our comm systems. As I was told, if the comms were shielded and powered down during the blast, they would work just fine after the initial wave hits.

This could be complete bullshit, but it is what I've been told in the past, I have little reason to doubt it without further investigation on my part.

 

[BenDover]

Theres an EMP from any nuke going off. It affects anything with a line of sight to the blast. Air burst over Boston (to blow up the city) will affect a small area.

A nuke used to deliver an EMP on purpose will be detonated high in the atmosphere to affect the widest area possible...there will be no blast felt from this. Just a flash of light (maybe) and your toaster blows up.

NSA computers are gonna love this post...

EMP is not something that lingers, if your electronics are shielded during the EMP, they *should* function just fine after the fact. I'd be more worried about the nuke itself, since (as I recall) the EMP does not exceed the blast radius. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again in the future, but this is what we have been taught during our useless "face to boom, face to blast" crap the Army put me through in basic when I asked about the EMP from a nuke and the possibility of it taking out our comm systems. As I was told, if the comms were shielded and powered down during the blast, they would work just fine after the initial wave hits.

This could be complete bullshit, but it is what I've been told in the past, I have little reason to doubt it without further investigation on my part.

 

[Scarecrow]

Theres an EMP from any nuke going off. It affects anything with a line of sight to the blast. Air burst over Boston (to blow up the city) will affect a small area.

A nuke used to deliver an EMP on purpose will be detonated high in the atmosphere to affect the widest area possible...there will be no blast felt from this. Just a flash of light (maybe) and your toaster blows up.

NSA computers are gonna love this post...

So the EMP is LOS? I thought that there is a dispersion effect so distance becomes a huge factor over short distances?

...I'll add that to my growing list of "shit my drill sergeants said that is complete bullshit"

 

[noddaduma]

You need to educate yourself on what damage an EMP of a given size can and cannot cause. There are a lot of "myths" about the potential for destroying all electronics. EMP is not magic.

 

[BenDover]

Its LOS, but the effects are conducted from affected areas outward.

So the EMP is LOS? I thought that there is a dispersion effect so distance becomes a huge factor over short distances?

...I'll add that to my growing list of "shit my drill sergeants said that is complete bullshit"

 

[Nick Fury]

If ever there was a subject that is full of misinformation and unknowns it is this one. I spent a month obsessing over info about EMPs, solar flares, and Faraday cages and was no closer to a personal solution than when I started.

General consensus was layers of protection is the best method. Isolate items in tin foil then insulate from each other with cardboard. Put these in a larger metal container with conductive seals. That means no ammo can rubber seals. I'd get a 55 gallon drum. Replace with foil and remove any paint around seal area to improve conductivity. To ground or not to ground was a question I never got a solid answer to.Seems to be some school of thought that an EMP buildup could actually come from the ground rather than just seek ground. Total isolation appears to be the best way to go.

If you just did what I said I think your chances would be good protection from anything EMP related but do get yourself a few oil lamps just in case...

 

[Silverguns6]

Silverguns:

A dirty bomb is not a nuclear fission device and there is no EMP from it. It is radioactive material strapped to a conventional bomb and then detonated.

Imagine that a dirty bomb is like a watermelon in the middle of a room. If the watermelon explodes, the people in the room and the walls of the room are covered with watermelon guts. When you clean up the watermelon guts, there is no more mess. It is the same with a dirty bomb. Clean up the mess and there is no radioactivity contamination left on people or things.

As to your other questions, Google is your friend. Please use it. You can also search the forum as this topic has been discussed here many times.

Thanks for clearing that up. I would have googled it, but after the NSA spying stuff, and those pesty keywords, I really want to avoid getting Screwgled.

 

[Silverguns6]

I wouldnt spend much time/money on prepping specifically for EMP.

I don't plan on it, just considering as many scenarios as I can. I didn't think of it as a grid down situation though and now I have a better perspective on planning and organization.
-Dave

- - - Updated - - -

Theres an EMP from any nuke going off. It affects anything with a line of sight to the blast. Air burst over Boston (to blow up the city) will affect a small area.

A nuke used to deliver an EMP on purpose will be detonated high in the atmosphere to affect the widest area possible...there will be no blast felt from this. Just a flash of light (maybe) and your toaster blows up.

NSA computers are gonna love this post...

And those Chinese hackers will hate it.

 

[Silverguns6]

I guess this has a bit to do with this subject, Pro-Ki (potassium iodide). What are your thoughts on it? Do you have some? And then to the rest of the alphabet, N.B.C., covered Nuke, what about Bio and Chemical? What are your thoughts on prepping for a bio or chemical disaster or attack? How effective are milsurp gas masks and filters like the Finnish or Israeli ones? What pieces of gear would you recommend to someone who wants to prep for a N.B.C. disaster or attack?

-Dave

 

[P-14]

ammo can = faraday box

You forgot the word "grounded" in front of ammo can.

 

[daddysuperfly]

You forgot the word "grounded" in front of ammo can.

don't forget about the rubber seal. i think you'd need to have all of the metal in contact (no seams). i thought i had seen someone use a metal trash can with a metal lid, use alluminum tape, and then place that inside a 55 gallon plastic trash can.

 

[daddysuperfly]

this guys had a pretty decent video
Garbage can Faraday cage - YouTube

 

[BenDover]

Does not need to be grounded, the electrons flow around the stuff inside the can on their way to ground.

Ammo cans at the least need to have the cover and body wired together electrically. Even then the gasket will allow some amount of EMI into the box. Conductive gaskets do exist in the world, but probably cost more than the amo can.

You forgot the word "grounded" in front of ammo can.

 

[Silverguns6]

So pretty much what I need to do is examine how Alex Jones makes his Tin Foil hats? Or is there more to it than that?

 

[Gooman24]

Does not need to be grounded, the electrons flow around the stuff inside the can on their way to ground.

Ammo cans at the least need to have the cover and body wired together electrically. Even then the gasket will allow some amount of EMI into the box. Conductive gaskets do exist in the world, but probably cost more than the amo can.

Yes they do. You can start with these links.

Conductive Elastomer Gaskets Overview

EMI Shielding

EMI Shielding Theory

EMI Shielding Design

EMI Product Catalog and Handbook

With the Handbook start at page on and just read lol. It is a wealth of information. Actually all the links are but I was always partial to the handbook. It is well written and obviously geared towards product selection. I used to work for a company that converted and manufactured this stuff.

 

[BenDover]

There are people in grounded and ungrounded camps on this one. Jets get hit all the time and don't fly around with a ground tether. All the equipment inside stays intact.

Yes they do. You can start with these links.

Conductive Elastomer Gaskets Overview

EMI Shielding

EMI Shielding Theory

EMI Shielding Design

EMI Product Catalog and Handbook

With the Handbook start at page on and just read lol. It is a wealth of information. Actually all the links are but I was always partial to the handbook. It is well written and obviously geared towards product selection. I used to work for a company that converted and manufactured this stuff.

 

[Gooman24]

There are people in grounded and ungrounded camps on this one. Jets get hit all the time and don't fly around with a ground tether. All the equipment inside stays intact.

Sorry the "Yes they do" was in reference to "conductive gaskets do exist in the world." part of your post. I was agreeing with you and providing info on the gaskets.

 

[Prepper]

Thanks for clearing that up. I would have googled it, but after the NSA spying stuff, and those pesty keywords, I really want to avoid getting Screwgled.

Use startpage.com, them you don't have to worry about your searches anymore.

 

[Dedicated]

Actually, I use a product from TechProtect which creates mylar looking bags for devices in many sizes. I think it's great for small radio kits & camping solar panels. The price is pretty cheap and the bags hold up well:

Videos | Tech Protect Bag

 

[KBCraig]

Three things to remember:

1. An EMP pulse only occurs at the exact moment of the blast.
2. Any commo gear fully shielded from EMP will be useless while shielded. If it's a backup, it's vulnerable to a second attack as soon as you pull it out to use.
3. Even if your stuff survives, who you gonna talk to?

 

[JackOfAllTrades]

If you are talking about small equipment, just wrap them in a couple of layers of aluminum foil... instant custom Faraday shield.

I would recommend some paper maps, a compass and learning to use them both. GPS is great until the batteries die, the high altitude EMP cooks the satellites, the government turns off the unencrypted signals or offsets the reference points, etc.

 

[Wadcutter]

Actually, I use a product from TechProtect which creates mylar looking bags for devices in many sizes. I think it's great for small radio kits & camping solar panels. The price is pretty cheap and the bags hold up well:

Videos | Tech Protect Bag

Those are fine but way over priced. They should be 10 cent to a buck each. The same basic bags are on ebay for much less, or check out an industrial supplier if you want a bunch:

Stanley Supply & Services - Products and Services for Electronics Manufacture, Assembly, Diagnosis, and Repair

Most of these bags can be sealed with foodsavers, and some have anti corrosion coating so they are good for long term storage of anything you want to keep dry (not food).

 

[PaulR]

I bought a set of these bags many years ago and just brought them out and tested them now.
As to cell phone calls and wifi-networks, they do in fact work.

Faraday Defense NX3

Protect your devices from hacking and tracking, and yourself from EMF output with the NX3 bag. These bags are suitable for shielding all types of devices, including: solar panels, laptops, tablets, radios, cell phones, key fobs, credit cards, small hard drives and USB drives. The NX3 bag has...

shop.faradaydefense.com

Getting some preps ready, I was thinking I should protect my solar charge controllers some how.

 

[PaulR]

Baofangs and charge controllers.
Has anyone else done anything on this front?
Is anyone worried about this type of attack?

 

[Admin]

I wouldnt say worried, mostly because there isn't much I can do about it. I'm also not convinced that a lot of the "faraday" stuff that is marketed will save anything. Just my opinion, any country that EMPs the US is sealing the fate for the world.