FEES

[Ray-500]

Am finding that some places not only charge the transfer fee, but also tack on a 10% surcharge. If you purchase an out-of-state $800 firearm, pay for it and have it sent to the FFL dealer, the dealer will tack on a 10% surcharge in addition to the transfer fee.

Don't want to mention specific names at this point. Has anyone else seen this? Its like paying a double markup plus the shipping. From what I've seen, this applies to not only new, but used guns as well.

 

[jdubois]

10% of what? How would the in-state dealer know what you paid the other FFL, if anything, for the firearm?

 

[JonJ]

I had a dealer quote me a price for a transfer plus 10% of the value of the firearm of which they determined plus sales tax!

 

[Rockrivr1]

Time to look for a new FFL. There are some very good ones out there and some very bad ones out there at the same time.

 

[TomH]

I wouldn't go to that dealer again. And I wouldn't be afraid to withold the store name either!

 

[jdubois]

I had a dealer quote me a price for a transfer plus 10% of the value of the firearm of which they determined plus sales tax!

I think if I ever got that, I wouldn't be able to stop myself from laughing in their face.

 

[Ray-500]

10% of what? How would the in-state dealer know what you paid the other FFL, if anything, for the firearm?

The seller would include an invoice/BOS to you. That invoice/BOS would be in the shipment. The FFL dealer would need to open the package and the invoice would be there. It appears that this is being done under the guise of "responsibility" "insurance", etc.etc.

 

[jdubois]

The seller would include an invoice/BOS to you. That invoice/BOS would be in the shipment. The FFL dealer would need to open the package and the invoice would be there. It appears that this is being done under the guise of "responsibility" "insurance", etc.etc.

The only time I had an out of state FFL ship to me through a local FFL, I specifically asked them not to include any price information in the shipment. I ask for that pretty much any time I have somebody ship something to me through a 3rd party. Nobody else's business what I do or don't pay for things.

 

[Ray-500]

I wouldn't go to that dealer again. And I wouldn't be afraid to withold the store name either!

Don't want to bad mouth anyone or start any negatives. The idea took me totally by surprise. Could it be a way to avoid paperwork for a small transfer fee? Only guessing.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I had a dealer quote me a price for a transfer plus 10% of the value of the firearm of which they determined plus sales tax!

I would go home, consume 4 lobsters, a jar of jalapenos, 6 over-ripe peaches, and a twelve pack of Stroh's. Then I'd go back to the dealer an hour later and turn his store into a super fund site.

 

[jhrosier]

I got hosed for sales (use) tax on on both the price of the gun and the transfer fee, on my last transfer.

I changed dealers and instructed the seller not to put an invoice in the box as the details of the financial transaction are none of the business of the transfering dealer.

I should be getting the gun tomorrow, so I will see how that plays out.

BTW, I have seen the letter sent to MA dealers by the DOR, instructing them to collect the "use" tax on the gun and the transfer fee. Some dealers collect the taxes, and others ignore it.

Jack

 

[Blitz1]

I would go home, consume 4 lobsters, a jar of jalapenos, 6 over-ripe peaches, and a twelve pack of Stroh's. Then I'd go back to the dealer an hour later and turn his store into a super fund site.

 

[Ray-500]

The only time I had an out of state FFL ship to me through a local FFL, I specifically asked them not to include any price information in the shipment. I ask for that pretty much any time I have somebody ship something to me through a 3rd party. Nobody else's business what I do or don't pay for things.

I hear you, but it shouldn't make any difference. Let's say you find a good, used S&W Model 27. You make your deal with the seller and send a check, MO, or however. The seller ships it to the FFL and puts your receipt in with the package. There really should be no problem. Who cares who knows the price? Its irrelevant. The transfer should take place with a transfer fee.

Has no one else come across this 10% bull?

 

[jdubois]

There really should be no problem. Who cares who knows the price? Its irrelevant. The transfer should take place with a transfer fee.

I agree with you, it shouldn't be a problem. But when you start giving people information they don't need, they start getting ideas...

 

[Ray-500]

I had a dealer quote me a price for a transfer plus 10% of the value of the firearm of which they determined plus sales tax!

That's my point. It doesn't matter whether the invoice/BOS is included or not...they can determine a price and charge accordingly. Is this a new trend? Is it something becoming common to gain additional bucks?

From the consumer end, it boils down to paying a double markup, plus the shipping, plus the transfer fee. One way to deal with it is to avoid that dealer for ALL purchases...even new and local. However, if all FFL's decide to do this, we will be screwed unless we buy from a given dealer's stock. That's not what I would call an "open market".

 

[Ray-500]

I agree with you, it shouldn't be a problem. But when you start giving people information they don't need, they start getting ideas...

Grin, I think the idea is already there...info or not. It might be interesting to start a poll to find out how many folks came across this 10% crap. I think the site has the ability to do polls...not sure how to start one. Can you give me a heads up?

 

[Kaos116]

The dealer I use will charge 10% + the transfer fee($20) + tax if it's something I find online/SGN and have him order it. If I pay for it online and only use the dealer for his FFL and he doesn't have to do anything else but the transfer, it's only the transfer fee.

 

[RG617]

I would go home, consume 4 lobsters, a jar of jalapenos, 6 over-ripe peaches, and a twelve pack of Stroh's. Then I'd go back to the dealer an hour later and turn his store into a super fund site.

<topic hijack>Strohs got bought by Miller, and they repackaged it into MGD. </topic hijack>

Hypothetically? This might be worth it if they were handling the transfer/sale of a pistol of questionable compliance...

I seem to remember (DISCLAIMER: I could very easily be mistaken) seeing somewhere on here that buying a non-compliant firearm isn't the issue, it's the providing that will get someone in hot water so that's why having an exchange handled through an FFL is a helpful thing. Well, that and if you have no FTF available.

 

[Ray-500]

The dealer I use will charge 10% + the transfer fee($20) + tax if it's something I find online/SGN and have him order it. If I pay for it online and only use the dealer for his FFL and he doesn't have to do anything else but the transfer, it's only the transfer fee.

That sounds like a normal situation...and understandable. What I came across was a situation of paying online or by mail and having it sent to the FFL. All he had to do was receive it and transfer it. 10% surcharge fee.

Am going to check to see how to set up a poll to see how many other folks have come across this and what their action/reaction has been.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It appears that this is being done under the guise of "responsibility" "insurance", etc.etc.

Sounds like BS to me. His transfer fee should be set to cover whatever "research" he has to do to ensure that he can indeed sell the gun to you. No different than if he took in a used gun for resale.

I would go home, consume 4 lobsters, a jar of jalapenos, 6 over-ripe peaches, and a twelve pack of Stroh's. Then I'd go back to the dealer an hour later and turn his store into a super fund site.

Cheaper way out is buy that can of "Liquid Ass" that Wayne Wong posted about in another thread. Give the guy a good spraying and leave the shop . . . . permanently.

I got hosed for sales (use) tax on on both the price of the gun and the transfer fee, on my last transfer.

BTW, I have seen the letter sent to MA dealers by the DOR, instructing them to collect the "use" tax on the gun and the transfer fee. Some dealers collect the taxes, and others ignore it.

Jack

Jack, a sales tax on a transfer fee is ILLEGAL . . . there is no sales tax on labor, only "hard goods". I've been a MA Vendor with a Sales Tax # since 1966.

On the other hand, I've had someone in the Sales Tax Unit tell me to my face to charge sales tax on services, refuse to give me a copy of the actual sales tax law when I got one of my sales tax numbers in ~1970 . . . finally I told him I wasn't leaving his office without it and he gave in. I have learned that if you send a letter to the Commr of DOR (to the listed PO Box) that it goes to "dead letter office" and is never seen by the Commr or his staff. I found this one out only recently but it explains why I had to go to my State Rep to get their attention the first time. There are a lot of shady dealings going on in DOR (that are unethical at best and perhaps illegal) and one day they will get their comeuppance.

I'd love to see that letter from DOR. I am looking at my Form ST-9Q and instructions for filing the quarterly sales and use tax report and there is no place on the form for declaring "use tax" except for purchases the holder of the sales tax number makes as tax exempt and later converts to personal/business use that is taxable.

I don't doubt for a second that some dolt may have issued a letter, even though the law says otherwise. It is the responsibility of the purchaser to pay the use tax directly to DOR based only on what the product cost the purchaser . . . not on transfer fees, separate shipping costs, "assumed list price" by some third-party, etc.

 

[drgrant]

I would go home, consume 4 lobsters, a jar of jalapenos, 6 over-ripe peaches, and a twelve pack of Stroh's. Then I'd go back to the dealer an hour later and turn his store into a super fund site.

Jim, that's awful... yet hilarious at the same time.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

That sounds like a normal situation...and understandable. What I came across was a situation of paying online or by mail and having it sent to the FFL. All he had to do was receive it and transfer it. 10% surcharge fee.

IMO those guys are the exception rather than the rule. Most FFLs just charge a flat fee for transferring. Some charge slightly more for handguns. Frankly, it isn't any of their business what your gun is worth in that context. The service you're paying them for is strictly to TRANSFER the firearm. They should "act the same" if you're getting an heirloom from a family estate or you bought something brand new in the box, etc. If they don't, find someone else to do it.

Any FFL who states they're going to charge you a percent of the gun's value or sales tax, should be pretty much written off entirely. Either idea is BS and basically a ripoff. (Although, I did run into one dealer that was collecting it by mistake, because for some reason he thought he had to; after someone showed him the laws he no longer does it anymore. )

I also commend the idea of getting the sending FFL to not include any paperwork with the gun other than the address it's supposed to go to and at the most, the name of the customer getting the gun. You shouldn't need to be this absurd with the FFL, though. It's better to just find one that isn't an a**h***.

This is another reason I hate federal gun laws- gun buyers are often inadvertently put at the mercy of terrible gun dealers, with often very little recourse; once a bad dealer has a hold of your gun, they have you by the balls; and 9 times out of 10 its easier to just pay them off and get your gun and swear never to use them again. Thankfully the really bad dealers seem to be a minority.

-Mike

 

[Ray-500]

This is another reason I hate federal gun laws- gun buyers are often inadvertently put at the mercy of terrible gun dealers, with often very little recourse; once a bad dealer has a hold of your gun, they have you by the balls; and 9 times out of 10 its easier to just pay them off and get your gun and swear never to use them again. Thankfully the really bad dealers seem to be a minority.

-Mike

That's the rub. Its paid, its shipped. You then find out there is a surcharge. Caveat Emptor.

 

[the_shootist]

That's the rub. Its paid, its shipped. You then find out there is a surcharge. Caveat Emptor.

There's a very effective way to put the kybosh on this practice. Quite simply, blow the whistle on the dealers doing this. These guys sell to a very limited market and much of that market resides right here on this board. I'm not suggesting saying anything that is not above board or untrue. Simply let people know when you feel you're being overcharged...AND BE PREPARED TO BACK IT UP WITH FACTUAL INFORMATION. If XYZ Guns took me to the cleaners on fees I would certainly be sure my friends knew about it because I wouldn't want them to suffer the same fate.

Doesn't this make more sense than whining about it?

 

[Ray-500]

There's a very effective way to put the kybosh on this practice. Quite simply, blow the whistle on the dealers doing this. These guys sell to a very limited market and much of that market resides right here on this board. I'm not suggesting saying anything that is not above board or untrue. Simply let people know when you feel you're being overcharged...AND BE PREPARED TO BACK IT UP WITH FACTUAL INFORMATION. If XYZ Guns took me to the cleaners on fees I would certainly be sure my friends knew about it because I wouldn't want them to suffer the same fate. Doesn't this make more sense than whining about it?

Who's whining? Came across a situation with a large, reputable dealer in this area. This dealer has a good rep, which is why I did not mention a name. Have also purchased new items at this same place. Am not looking to tarnish anyones name or rep. The idea of a surcharge is foreign to me, which is why I made the post....looking for info as to whether this is something new and/or common, and if other folks have seen the same thing. The idea is INFO.

 

[Dick]

The idea is INFO.

There's no INFO involved for the rest of us if you don't tell us which dealer is doing this.

 

[Ray-500]

There's no INFO involved for the rest of us if you don't tell us which dealer is doing this.

The dealer is D&L Shooting Supplies in Warwick, RI. As I said before, this idea is new to me and am wondering how many other folks have come across this.

 

[MFP4073]

Ray-

No big deal... You have not bad-mouthed any dealer at all. You have simply stated their policy WRT transfers.

If this is their standard procedure they should not be worried that it has been mentioned in a public forum. If they are worried, or they go get angry that the public knows of this practice, then they are trying to hide something and in my opinion are not worthy of anyone's business.

Aside from all that, I have never heard of a transfer "surcharge" on top of the fee from any of the local dealers I go to in MA. If one of them began screwing around and charging additional surcharges I would never do business with them again. They are already making money for 5, maybe 10minutes of paper work and a 30 second phone call!

 

[6hold]

The fee for this service is 10% . . .

I copied this from their site.

D&L Shooting Supplies

PURCHASING FROM OUT OF STATE:
We will be happy to receive firearms from an out-of-state dealer. If you are purchasing a firearm from a dealer or from an on-line auction site, just have the dealer fax us a request for our FFL (401-738-9912) and we will fax ours out to them. Once we receive the firearm, we will call you and handle all the state and federal paperwork. The fee for this service is 10% of the value of the firearm plus $25.00 for state and federal paperwork

So you'd be paying them $125 to transfer a $1000 gun? No wonder they would be happy to do the transfeer. I'd never go for it, always ask the FULL price before doing a transfer.

http://www.dlshootingsupplies.com/policies.htm

 

[Skald]

I have had this type of situation come up three times in my life when getting firearms from another state, and never had a huge issue for paying sales tax on things I bought.