Firearm prohibitionist David Chipman on home-built firearms, the ATF, 2A

[teamRR]

I'm gonna be gentle. Because I've been b-slapped for silly opinions here. And it isn't fun. I'm here to ejamacate.

"Because Donald Trump incites riots we can't have you typing what you want to type on the inter webs without a special permit. It's hard to say no issue exists."

Ask around - I'm FAR from the right-wing-nut-job or right-job wing-nut, around here. FAR from it. But as soon as we start the "well, people who 'shouldn't' have them will get them" argument, we've lost. Reread 2A.

I'll say it. It's not hard.

No

Issue

Exists!

I've built 3 (I think) P80's. All for fun. Not a single one to be "ghosty." (Although one is white - its' a stormtrooper Glock. White frame and all else black.)

I mentioned here or elsewhere earlier today about buying a $260 Pietta BP gun and a $250 conversion cylinder. No time spent milling or assembling. $510 or so and about 5 min work and you've got a workable 6-shooter. The issue is not about criminals getting guns. It's about governing the masses who are looking at these tools as non-governable.

Don't buy their lie that they're trying to keep you safe. They aren't.

I probably can't comprehend what they are trying to do - it might just be as simple as being able to claim they did something in front of the Everytown for Moms-For whatever crowd - ie for re-election.. sure it isn't keeping us safe.

But I wouldn't sell even a close-to working Glock to a 15 year old. As far as I know you could, in many states, because they need not even check ID for what is not a gun or ammo. Easier to buy than a pack of smokes or beer? - may honestly be true.

I don't agree with all this fixation on having serial numbers, that is obviously nefarious. I am no fan of the ATF or alphabet agencies making law, having such power, or Brady law for that matter - sure it violates a lot that shouldn't be.

 

[VetteGirlMA]

Will the government regulate pipe next? Air compressors for air guns? Gasoline? Fertilizer?

Governments do not like people being armed and able to challenge or resist their illegal dictates.....plain and simple. Whether or not a gun has a serial number doesn't mean a damned thing when the person behind the trigger is intent on harming others.

Governments ALWAYS look for ways to diminish the ability of the general public to defend themselves against the criminal element of society......AND GOVERNMENT IS USUALLY THE WORST CRIMINAL ELEMENT. They will use any means, any excuse, any item to incrementally diminish the RIGHTS of people. Governments want absolute control of people in every way shape and form.

They regulate things because they cannot (yet ) control the psyche of people.....but rest assured they are trying to.

I've actually talked to leftists that want people to get background checks to buy springs and screws if they are used in a firearm. That's where the opposition is. If they had their way, springs, grips, sights, screws, and other assorted bits and pieces would all be NFA items.

 

[Picton]

I've actually talked to leftists that want people to get background checks to buy springs and screws if they are used in a firearm. That's where the opposition is. If they had their way, springs, grips, sights, screws, and other assorted bits and pieces would all be NFA items.

Yes, me too.

we all need to remember that most of the moonbats HAVE never and WILL never even touch a firearm, let alone disassemble them. They have zero concept how they work, how they’re made, or how to fix them. They will never care enough about being accurate or intellectually honest enough to learn about any of that, either.

We sometimes assume everyone is as knowledgeable about firearms as we are. Because we know how simple it is to understand them. But if you remind yourself that most lefties don’t know the difference between a mainspring housing and a recoil spring, and won’t ever take the time to learn, then you’ll realize that our side and their side are completely talking past each other.

They don’t get why you can’t serialize an AR takedown pin detent spring. And they’ll never get it.

 

[Uzi2]

I've actually talked to leftists that want people to get background checks to buy springs and screws if they are used in a firearm. That's where the opposition is. If they had their way, springs, grips, sights, screws, and other assorted bits and pieces would all be NFA items.

And they are like that because they are insane and they always want the entire world around them to conform to their insanity no matter what the subject at hand.

This is why they will never debate anything, because facts are never on their side, their emotional irrationality always governs their thought processes. They are like petulant, tantrum throwing children.

Never allow your life to be ruled by these fools, they should be shunned and shamed out of society at every opportunity.

 

[Picton]

And they are like that because they are insane and they always want the entire world around them to conform to their insanity no matter what the subject at hand.

This is why they will never debate anything, because facts are never on their side, their emotional irrationality always governs their thought processes. They are like petulant, tantrum throwing children.

Never allow your life to be ruled by these fools, they should be shunned and shamed out of society at every opportunity.

I think there's a difference between insanity and ignorance.

They are willfully ignorant about firearms. The end result is the same (they advocate bad policy that will never work), but not because they're crazy. They just have no interest in informing themselves about gun parts. "We should regulate these!" is their default position, and because they won't educate themselves about what "these" are, they just continue ignorantly spewing their mindless drivel.

I don't have a solution. They can be brought around, but I don't know how. Chalking them up as a lost cause is just a recipe for further polarization and an endless battle that's always going to distract us from more important issues. JMO.

 

[Uzi2]

I think there's a difference between insanity and ignorance.

They are willfully ignorant about firearms. The end result is the same (they advocate bad policy that will never work), but not because they're crazy. They just have no interest in informing themselves about gun parts. "We should regulate these!" is their default position, and because they won't educate themselves about what "these" are, they just continue ignorantly spewing their mindless drivel.

I don't have a solution. They can be brought around, but I don't know how. Chalking them up as a lost cause is just a recipe for further polarization and an endless battle that's always going to distract us from more important issues. JMO.

Yes, I've expressed my opinions on the willfully ignorant here many times. At some point when someone or group continually goes through life without the slightest desire to see facts, I'll move my opinion to insanity because that just doesn't happen in sane people's worlds. A rational person usually strives to educate themself or at least look at facts when they are presented to them. Leftists rarely if ever do this.

I honestly don't care about further polarization, they are a lost cause and the chasm between them and rationale people is about as wide and deep as it could be at this point in time and nothing that is said or done in the future, other than the "insane types" getting their way, is going to change things. The battle will continue as long as there are people who refuse to educate themselves and become rational in their thinking.

"The Price of Liberty is Eternal Vigilance."

 

[Picton]

A rational person usually strives to educate themself or at least look at facts when they are presented to them.

I get it, but...

Have you met regular people? Most, in my experience, prefer their own opinions to any other, no matter what side of the political fence they're on. Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I think plenty of otherwise rational people aren't looking to have their opinions challenged.

I see it here on NES all the time.

 

[VetteGirlMA]

And they are like that because they are insane and they always want the entire world around them to conform to their insanity no matter what the subject at hand.

This is why they will never debate anything, because facts are never on their side, their emotional irrationality always governs their thought processes. They are like petulant, tantrum throwing children.

Never allow your life to be ruled by these fools, they should be shunned and shamed out of society at every opportunity.

Meh I've worked with and hung around with enough PhD's in my life that I have seen this kind of life pattern before. People who operate in universes of fuzzy logic and approximations and only discuss topics from lofty ivory tower positions where 80% certainty is as good as 100% certainty. You know the kind of people who toss down white papers from the ivory towers and yet they lack the fundamental understanding of the topics they are discussing. That's why so much gun control conversation from the left operates with weasel words and fuzzy logic. There's not many of the ivory tower thinkers who have even a passing understanding of how a firearm actually works except the kaboom sound. Forget about the Shannon Watts and Michael Bloombergs, they're just either mouth pieces or money bags. What matters are the people behind them writing the white papers from high atop their university perches as if to imply bending the universe to their will is just a lack of understanding from the common man. When in actual fact if there ever were an actual zombie apocalypse the left wing academics would be one of the first people to go like the folks standing on the decks of the titanic declaring the ship is unsinkable and sound while watching their luggage float away.

 

[FalArAk]

When they criminalize FTF deals(much to the delight and under the table support of FFL's nationwide) some people will probably act surprised that it happened as well.

I'm honestly surprised a Republican hasn't done it yet.

Remember back when the mantra of gun owners was that a Democrat would never do anti-gun legislation because they won't get elected?

lol

Didn't have to, the Republicans did it for them.

 

[Uzi2]

I get it, but...

Have you met regular people? Most, in my experience, prefer their own opinions to any other, no matter what side of the political fence they're on. Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I think plenty of otherwise rational people aren't looking to have their opinions challenged.

I see it here on NES all the time.

Most rational people understand when they're proven incorrect by facts presented that are contrary to their current knowledge or opinion and usually change their thinking. Leftists (aka insane people) do not do this. They will continue to march forward, headlong off a cliff even if/when they've been told about that cliff well in advance.

People who don't want their opinions challenged are usually ones who do not have the facts to back up the adoption of that opinion in the first place.

 

[42!]

Chipman was on NPR the other day, After the 2AO guy spoke (he did well), Chipman commented that what he said was a threat and he should not be allowed to speak. Scary how quickly he was willing to silence those that he didn't agree with, a total dismissal of 1A. I shouldn't be surprised, he really doesn't care about rights, only what he wants.

 

[Lank]

There’s Only One Reason to Own a Ghost Gun

What a twat.

 

[Lank]

I think there's a difference between insanity and ignorance.

They are willfully ignorant about firearms. The end result is the same (they advocate bad policy that will never work), but not because they're crazy. They just have no interest in informing themselves about gun parts. "We should regulate these!" is their default position, and because they won't educate themselves about what "these" are, they just continue ignorantly spewing their mindless drivel.

I don't have a solution. They can be brought around, but I don't know how. Chalking them up as a lost cause is just a recipe for further polarization and an endless battle that's always going to distract us from more important issues. JMO.

You and I are usually very aligned but are not aligned on solutions and lost causes (for conversations sake). I do not think the angry, marxists and communists (and their ignorant followers) can be reformed to believe in indviual rights and personal autonomy outside of genderism, trans shit etc.

We are not polarized enough

 

[Chevy 2 65]

There’s Only One Reason to Own a Ghost Gun

HEY DAVID !!
GFY

 

[Uzi2]

Chipman was on NPR the other day, After the 2AO guy spoke (he did well), Chipman commented that what he said was a threat and he should not be allowed to speak. Scary how quickly he was willing to silence those that he didn't agree with, a total dismissal of 1A. I shouldn't be surprised, he really doesn't care about rights, only what he wants.

He is the very definition of the word.

meg·a·lo·ma·ni·ac
[ˌmeɡələˈmānēˌak]

NOUN

1. a person who is obsessed with their own power.

ADJECTIVE

1. exhibiting megalomania.

 

[Uzi2]

What a twat.

From the article: Chipman speaking: "This is very hard, and it’s unlike other problems that we face where the people that oppose change that would make our country safer don’t do so because they disagree with our approach. They disagree with the fact that there is a problem. They don’t think gun violence is a problem. They think it’s a way to make money. They think it’s a way to mischaracterize communities of color as being somehow more violent. There are all these other political forces that actually benefit from the gun violence problem."
****************************************************
Yes, of course we disagree with your approach, because it totally infringes on people's rights......and does nothing to stop criminals. There is no gun violence problem to speak of outside major democrat run cities.

Mischaracterize?

The inner city communities which are predominantly people of color, LA, Chicago, NYC, DC, Atlanta, Pittsburg and Philadelphia PA, Columbus and Cincinatti OH, St. Louis MO, Louisville KY, Jackson MI, Jacksonville FL, Memphis TN, Dallas/Fort Worth and Houston TX, Mobile AL, and every other democrat run city in the country ARE more violent than the rest of the country. There is no mischaracterization going on at all.......it's A PROVEABLE FACT.

 

[Picton]

You and I are usually very aligned but are not aligned on solutions and lost causes (for conversations sake). I do not think the angry, marxists and communists (and their ignorant followers) can be reformed to believe in indviual rights and personal autonomy outside of genderism, trans shit etc.

We are not polarized enough

I'm not sure how many people, percentage-wise, are irretrievably marginalized, though.

I think there is a HUGE swath of folks who are merely ignorant. Now, don't get me wrong: they're not necessarily open to becoming un-ignorant. But it might be worth trying. Like I said, I don't know how to do that. I do what I can.

Our side is not all that great at PR, necessarily. We don't need it (because we do have 2A), but hopefully we all acknowledge that 2A might be just a couple of bad SCOTUS nominees away from emasculation (hence the true importance of the Trump win). It might be nice if we were good at persuading, just as a matter of becoming better at rhetoric.

 

[namedpipes]

No shit it's not a firearm, did I ever say it was ?

This is like debating with a 9 year old whether corn syrup is the same as sugar.

Corn syrup is the agricultural equivalent of an 80% lower.

Perform the last 20% and you have sugar.

 

[Dadstoys]

If I were ever have to argue in court why the ATF should not even exist , that man would be exhibit A.
A mass murdering head case with authority .
He's not alone by a long shot .
He's what those type of agencies draw like flies to crap.

 

[Dennis in MA]

It's clear Chiphead is one of those people that believes that everyone does, or perhaps SHOULD think exactly like him. He doesn't like guns, so BUILDING a gun seems like something only a criminal could do.

Imagine if he was in charge of the NTSB or something and decided he didn't like wave runners. I mean, I think they breed stupidity. That's my opinion. But to openly work hard to restrict and ban them? In America??? I can't even imagine taking that step.

I wish Uncle Ted had asked him about some obscure hobby he has during his confirmation hearings and then tore him a new one about how stupid it was and no one should do that. LOL

 

[namedpipes]

I think doing drugs is stupid (possibly excluding marijuana, which I don't use but see certain genuine medicinal value in).

But if you want to smoke, swallow, inject or snort what I see as poison, knock yourself out. Just don't affect others by then driving or whatever.

I find tinkering with guns, including building, improving or just fussing, fun. If I ever could find out how to find the parts for a ghost glock or something, I'd be all over that.

 

[Uzi2]

I'm not sure how many people, percentage-wise, are irretrievably marginalized, though.

It is high and I arrive at that conclusion simply by looking at the educational system and the nonstop lying propaganda media in this country.

I think there is a HUGE swath of folks who are merely ignorant. Now, don't get me wrong: they're not necessarily open to becoming un-ignorant. But it might be worth trying. Like I said, I don't know how to do that. I do what I can.

All the information for those who are ignorant is out there for them to view and absorb. Most are blissful in their ignorance as it is one less "life problem" they have to intellectually contend with. The fact that the information is available for FREE points to an even worse problem.....THEY ARE INEXCUSEABLY LAZY.
I've given up long ago trying to pry the mule's ass off the ground. I'd rather fight them on the physical battle field where an undeniable, decisive outcome was the prize. I do not have nor will I make the time to suffer willful fools.

Our side is not all that great at PR, necessarily. We don't need it (because we do have 2A), but hopefully we all acknowledge that 2A might be just a couple of bad SCOTUS nominees away from emasculation (hence the true importance of the Trump win). It might be nice if we were good at persuading, just as a matter of becoming better at rhetoric.

Rhetoric schmetoric......We have a country divided into two groups.....one group that wants to live by the rule of law and expects government to do the same and the other group that refuses to do either. When you present the law to the "refusenicks" their "ignore switch" is triggered and they just continue and refuse to abide. They also use the force of government against those who disagree with their lawlessness.
That is why this country is heading for a real violent time in the not too distant future. Lawlessness cannot support the operations of a nation with any resulting harmony.

Personally, I would rather see this country's lawless population perish at the barrel of a gun than to continue down the road we are on.

I injected my responses in italics.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It's clear Chiphead is one of those people that believes that everyone does, or perhaps SHOULD think exactly like him. He doesn't like guns, so BUILDING a gun seems like something only a criminal could do.

He feels totally comfortable with the concept of the government knowing who has what guns, which is what home build guns undermine.

 

[xtry51]

f*** that guy. The only problem with gun laws is that they exist. The problem is not "they are being undermined."

Also props to the counter argument earlier that if he only cared about BGCs, it shouod be fine to remove the serial after purchase by the same logic.

 

[cathouse01]

The biggest problem with Chipman and just about all the gun grabbers is reflected in this statement:

I think where much of the debate is today is that they believe in their constitutional view that the ownership of guns is some sort of birthright and that there is this insurrectionist belief that one of the reasons for the Second Amendment was so that the public could take up arms against the government themselves.

In point of fact (as determined by the SJC) the 2nd Amendment (contained in the Bill of Rights, specifically written to protect the native rights of individuals from the Federal Government) absolutely protects the citizens birthright to “keep and bear arms”. And all the historical analysis of the origins of said protection (in both the Federal and State Constitutions being written at that time) point to the understanding that it was to ensure that the citizens could form armed militia to protect themselves from a despotic government, as was done in the Revolutionary War against the King.