Fitchburg shooting -- claiming self defense

[drgrant]

This whole thing reeks.

"One vehicle was blocking the other vehicle," Early said. "So there was a request at some point to move the vehicle. This led to an exchange of words, which led to a further exchange of words. It then escalated to where there was violence using knives, guns and a machete."

If this is true, this doesn't bode well for self defense tack.

A gun recovered from the scene belonged to Orville Carrion, who had a license to carry the weapon, Early said. He declined to say whether all the weapons have been recovered.

Oh great. Just wonderful.

-Mike

 

[jcr]

Story of yesterday's arraignment with some details of the incident

Defendants arraigned from doorway
http://www.telegram.com/article/20090909/NEWS/909090374/1101

 

[Garys]

A gun was found at the scene, but no note if it was Carrion's gun.

It would seem that Orville Carrion had no prior criminal record or he wouldn't have a LTC.

If it is his gun that was recovered, self defense could be a hard sell here. Since it was one of the Carrions' car and they were asked to move it, this would seem to put them at a disadvantage when it comes to a self defense claim. Of course details could come to light that will show that someone attacked them because they didn't move it fast enough, but I don't know how that would play out in front of a jury.

 

[Eye5600]

Defendants arraigned from doorway

As a legal issue, not as a gun issue, I think it's curious that a couple of the principles in the proceeding are out of sight for the convenience of the spectators.

 

[goofycj7]

“At some point during this confrontation Orville Carrion draws a firearm and begins to shoot at the Genoa brothers,” state police said. “Also at some point Ronny Genoa arms himself with a machete and swings it at the Carrion brothers striking them several times.”
I doubt the machete came after being shot at, and if the brothers came to the appartment with a machete?

 

[cekim]

and if the brothers came to the appartment with a machete?

I had the same thought

I supposed its possible they use them at work, but.... Occam suggests otherwise...

 

[GSG]

http://www.telegram.com/article/20091216/NEWS/912160379/1003/RSS01&source=rss

A total of 16 people were arrested Dec. 9 on drug charges. Many of them are thought to be members of street gangs operating in Fitchburg, including the Almighty Latin Kings, Queens Nation (the Latin Kings) and the Bloods.

A fight in Fitchburg between feuding rival gangs, allegedly involving Mr. Molina, left two men dead in September.

According to an affidavit filed in the cases by an FBI agent, Mr. Molina told a cooperating witness for the FBI that the slayings of Pedro Genoa and Nelson Geraldino outside a housing complex on Mechanic Street in Fitchburg Sept. 7 stemmed from a dispute about a parking space.

Mr. Molina told the witness that he and three other men put on black face masks, armed themselves and went to the apartment complex during the shooting. There were reports of additional fights and gunfire the same night.

Brothers Orville Carrion, 22, and Jose Carrion, 27, both of 96 Mechanic St., Apt. 3, Fitchburg, are charged in the two killings, and are being held without bail.

and an article from 2 months ago:

http://www.telegram.com/article/20110510/NEWS/110519972/1160/SPECIALSECTIONS04&source=rss

WORCESTER — Two brothers charged as a result of a 2009 melee in Fitchburg that left two people dead are asking that a judge dismiss the murder indictments against them.

...

Orville Carrion’s lawyer, E. Peter Parker, filed a motion on Feb. 17 asking that the murder charges against his client be dismissed. Mr. Parker maintained that insufficient evidence was presented to the grand jury to support the murder indictments. He also alleged that the integrity of the grand jury process had been impaired.

 

[ARV]

But having a witness see you chase people while shooting at them is going to play out badly in court. Someone begging not to be shot doesn't exactly sound like someone in an offensive behavior mode.

I agree with the first part, but the second bold part... well when you realize you brought a knife to a gun fight, your tune and attitude may change real fast.

 

[In God We Trust]

In ghetto areas of these towns, It is pretty standard for cops to show up and just arrest and charge everyone and let the courts deal with it. It's not an automatic conviction just because police charge everyone, they probably showed up and saw the chaos, everyone screaming and offering different versions of the story...

Also you chances of not being charged go down if you are under 25 and / or have a hispanic last name.

 

[EC1]

In ghetto areas of these towns, It is pretty standard for cops to show up and just arrest and charge everyone and let the courts deal with it. It's not an automatic conviction just because police charge everyone, they probably showed up and saw the chaos, everyone screaming and offering different versions of the story...

Also you chances of not being charged go down if you are under 25 and / or have a hispanic last name.

Do you think it will change now that they are getting close to being the largest ethnic group in the US?

 

[In God We Trust]

Do you think it will change now that they are getting close to being the largest ethnic group in the US?

If city police forces continue to reflect the shift in demographics, sure.