Form 1 SBR before you own the gun?

[chevyguyss350]

I've been wanting to do a 9mm AR with 5-7 inch barrel, suppressor, and 11 inch free float handguard for a while now. With things as they are, it will take me a while to collect the necessary pieces to put it together. Considering how long it may take me to gather everything, could I file a Form 1 without having anything in my possession, and buy components as I find them while waiting for the Form 1? Do I need to have physical possession of a lower before I apply for a tax stamp? Or can I treat it as an as needed, whenever I get to it sort of thing?

And yes, I am aware of constructive intent. I would not have an unregistered lower and a 5 inch barrel at the same time.

 

[soam]

I've been wanting to do a 9mm AR with 5-7 inch barrel, suppressor, and 11 inch free float handguard for a while now. With things as they are, it will take me a while to collect the necessary pieces to put it together. Considering how long it may take me to gather everything, could I file a Form 1 without having anything in my possession, and buy components as I find them while waiting for the Form 1? Do I need to have physical possession of a lower before I apply for a tax stamp? Or can I treat it as an as needed, whenever I get to it sort of thing?

And yes, I am aware of constructive intent. I would not have an unregistered lower and a 5 inch barrel at the same time.

You need the lower before filing the Form 1 because you need to include the serial number on the form. You don't need anything else to file, and you can take as long as you want to actually build it.

 

[massBRS]

You need the lower before filing the Form 1 because you need to include the serial number on the form. You don't need anything else to file, and you can take as long as you want to actually build it.

That's what I'm doing - it takes the pain out of a build to get choice parts piece by piece - such as a lovely Geissele trigger:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-15-off-Handguards-Accesories-including-Tavor

 

[71montess]

How's this barrel look ?
https://www.classicfirearms.com/arbarrel10-5parkerizedbar1in7twist

 

[the_shootist]

And yes, I am aware of constructive intent. I would not have an unregistered lower and a 5 inch barrel at the same time.

But you CAN have an unregistered lower and build it as a pistol!!!

 

[exo]

How's this barrel look ?
https://www.classicfirearms.com/arbarrel10-5parkerizedbar1in7twist

I've long since stopped buying gun parts whose provenance is unknown.

 

[thormx538]

How's this barrel look ?
https://www.classicfirearms.com/arbarrel10-5parkerizedbar1in7twist

Those barrels are made by Bear Creek.

My brother-in-law's grandfather bought a Bear Creek M4gery, and he loves it. It shoots fine, 100% reliable, etc..

I relayed that story to a buddy of mine, and he bought the 20" MA compliant barrel they sell. When we took the upper he built with that barrel to the range, it shortstroked and had FTE's. I got it running for a mag by lowering the reciprocating mass (carbine lower, AR15 BCG instead of an M16 one), but something is wrong with the barrel, either gas port too small or the chamber too tight. In Bear Creek's defense, their customer service has been decent during the ordeal. The barrel is currently with another friend to get measured (he has gage pins and a chamber go/no-go gauge).

I have a Bear Creek M4 barrel sitting in a box at home, but I haven't built it up in to anything. I got it during one of their sales for like 59.99$.

 

[Kevin_NH]

With Form-1 SBR, you reuse the existing serial number.

Technically you don't need physical possession, you could put a lower on layaway at a friendly FFL?

And yes, I am aware of constructive intent. I would not have an unregistered lower and a 5 inch barrel at the same time.

If you're planning on a 9mm AR, just buy a 9mm stripped (or pistol) lower now, this eliminates any ATF "intent" worries, you can e-File immediately.

 

[exo]

Technically you don't need physical possession, you could put a lower on layaway at a friendly FFL?

I don't think that would fly if they found out. How can you register something that isn't yours? Until a 4473 has been done on it, it's not your property.

 

[Kevin_NH]

I don't think that would fly if they found out. How can you register something that isn't yours? Until a 4473 has been done on it, it's not your property.

You may be right, it is certainly not something I would write BATFE asking about!

When I build my next suppressor on a Form-1, it must not exist in any form until after I get the tax stamp. If I were to build a SBR on a Form-1 starting from an 80% lower (not recommended), the lower isn't officially a registered NFA item until I actually engrave my trust name and serial number, and never does get a 4473.

 

[dgrafton]

Why is an sbr on an 80% not recommended?

Are you saying not to waste an undocumented lower on a documented sbr or is there another reason?

 

[Kevin_NH]

Why is an sbr on an 80% not recommended? Are you saying not to waste an undocumented lower on a documented sbr or is there another reason?

Seems like a real waste to take an undocumented and unserialized lower and document and serialize it. Seldom any cost savings, and the factory is going to do a better job of milling and drilling than I would using a jig and a drill press.

Plus, engraving will cost significantly more, there would be 1-2 extra lines of text to engrave.

 

[massBRS]

Why is an sbr on an 80% not recommended?

Are you saying not to waste an undocumented lower on a documented sbr or is there another reason?

I was fighting this notion for a while. However, I came to the resolution that I can buy a 100% and an 80% from the same company and buy one of each, so if the big bad government wants to round up everyone's serialized and registered lowers I could hypothetically have a duplicate that will still match those oh-so-sexy billet lines for the end of days operator steeze. hypothetically. That being said, give my friend Chris at BRS a shout:
http://billetriflesystems.com/index.php?route=common/home

 

[dgrafton]

That's what I figured but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Just starting to wet my toes into NFA world.

 

[jeffC]

You need the lower before filing the Form 1 because you need to include the serial number on the form. You don't need anything else to file, and you can take as long as you want to actually build it.

So, when you say "you don't need anything else to file", you mean physically, right? The reason I ask is I'm about to build up my first SBR. I'm going to buy the lower this weekend, but am confused as to what to put as bbl length. What I decide in now may not be available after the wait time, or many other possibilities that may come into play without physically having the bbl in my possession. Any thoughts?

 

[soam]

So, when you say "you don't need anything else to file", you mean physically, right? The reason I ask is I'm about to build up my first SBR. I'm going to buy the lower this weekend, but am confused as to what to put as bbl length. What I decide in now may not be available after the wait time, or many other possibilities that may come into play without physically having the bbl in my possession. Any thoughts?

Put your best guess for measurements (barrel, overall length). If, once you build it, they turn out to be incorrect, you can notify the ATF in writing of the change in configuration.

 

[atilla]

Put your best guess for measurements (barrel, overall length).

find a production rifle with similar specs as to what you're building. use their barrel length and OAL numbers.

 

[massBRS]

find a production rifle with similar specs as to what you're building. use their barrel length and OAL numbers.

or play this game and check out the stats of your finished product - that's what I did:
http://www.ar15.com/gunstruction/
I had decided from the get-go I wanted a 10.5", so it may have been a little easier for me. Still waiting on my stamp (I went paper route through the mail - never again!)

 

[exo]

If it's an AR15 with a ~10" barrel it will be ~29" when completed.