Friend applying first time for an LTC with a 30yr old incident.

[whacko]

Check out the FBI's latest gem, "RAP BACK". It is part of their NGI program. Potential job and career killer if there ever was one. It is fingerprint-based. Glad that Macy destroyed mine. She did me a huge favor.

I'm quite sure I don't have to worry about it. I retired with an honorable discharge after 25 years and have never had a single negative interaction with police beyond a speeding ticket.

 

[LoginName]

Another word of caution here, say you got busted for some minor BS 30 years ago like the OP, and you believe (or have reason to believe),
that the record of it will never turn up.

You apply for your LTC/FID, don't disclose the conviction, get printed and lo and behold you come back clean.

You continue to do the same thing on your renewal, and your next one... and your next one.

25-30 years later you go in for your renewal and seemingly out of nowhere they get a hit on that old record you thought
they new nothing about... it happens.

I was talking with an ATF inspector or agent (i don't recall which), one time because I was called in to meet with her at the
local PD because there were "issues" with my C&R license renewal and they wanted me to be printed again (long story).

While I was talking with her she was telling me about how she had been going around doing this resulting in a number
of FFL's having their licensees revoked after years/decades because old shit was turning up. This was about 6-7 years ago.

Reason why this was happening was because the records keeping department was years/decades behind scanning in all
their fingerprint records submitted by thousands of LE agencies so they could be stored digitally.

Lesson... just because they haven't caught up with you know doesn't mean they won't catch up with you eventually.

 

[Broc]

Agreed. Even if he is not federally prohibited, a chief or LO could deny him as "unsuitable" for LTC. This happened to me. All is not lost; apply for FID instead. Much more difficult to deny. I took the additional step of having my fingerprints worked on. Jill's friend, a permanent makeup artist, used a rotary tattoo machine and shader needles without ink. Permanently altered my fingerprints right down to the third knuckle. She made sure that she got the sides also, since police take rolled prints. I was able to pass several fingerprint background checks for employment, including my current position.

So, when you alter your fingerprints and they don't match to anyone, that's it? Your name, social and other info don't correlate to any records anywhere?

What happens when they update your prints? Or they never get updated in some central system and are only used to check against a DB?

 

[Racenet]

 

[Rob Boudrie]

He needs to get a printout of his shit from the court where the incident happened and talk to a competent Firearms attorney anything else is asking to get denied.

Close.

He will need a court certified copy as the issuing authority is unlikely to accept a printout as definitive documentation.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Check out the FBI's latest gem, "RAP BACK". It is part of their NGI program. Potential job and career killer if there ever was one. It is fingerprint-based. Glad that Macy destroyed mine. She did me a huge favor.

RAP BACK is really nothing new in MA. MA has had "subsequent activity" notification to issuing departments since 1998. Any court activity is linked to the FRB database of LTC/FID holders and issuing agency is notified within 1 day. It only works for MA court activity, but is used to suspend/revoke on "accusations".

Another word of caution here, say you got busted for some minor BS 30 years ago like the OP, and you believe (or have reason to believe),
that the record of it will never turn up.

You apply for your LTC/FID, don't disclose the conviction, get printed and lo and behold you come back clean.

You continue to do the same thing on your renewal, and your next one... and your next one.

25-30 years later you go in for your renewal and seemingly out of nowhere they get a hit on that old record you thought
they new nothing about... it happens.

I was talking with an ATF inspector or agent (i don't recall which), one time because I was called in to meet with her at the
local PD because there were "issues" with my C&R license renewal and they wanted me to be printed again (long story).

While I was talking with her she was telling me about how she had been going around doing this resulting in a number
of FFL's having their licensees revoked after years/decades because old shit was turning up. This was about 6-7 years ago.

Reason why this was happening was because the records keeping department was years/decades behind scanning in all
their fingerprint records submitted by thousands of LE agencies so they could be stored digitally.

Lesson... just because they haven't caught up with you know doesn't mean they won't catch up with you eventually.

Every courthouse in MA has been computerizing old hand-written records for many years now. Each courthouse is at a different point in time, so lots of people get "surprised" on renewal when they suddenly get denied for something that happened 30-50 yrs ago.

 

[308rifleman]

RAP BACK is really nothing new in MA. MA has had "subsequent activity" notification to issuing departments since 1998. Any court activity is linked to the FRB database of LTC/FID holders and issuing agency is notified within 1 day. It only works for MA court activity, but is used to suspend/revoke on "accusations".


Every courthouse in MA has been computerizing old hand-written records for many years now. Each courthouse is at a different point in time, so lots of people get "surprised" on renewal when they suddenly get denied for something that happened 30-50 yrs ago.

RAP BACK is fingerprint-based and goes to your employer, who provides your livelihood and holds your paycheck and health insurance for you and your family. It can literally pull the financial rug out from under you and ruin you and your family. If you are the victim of RAP BACK, your FID or LTC denials are the absolute least of your problems. Have fun at the unemployment line!

 

[308rifleman]

So, when you alter your fingerprints and they don't match to anyone, that's it? Your name, social and other info don't correlate to any records anywhere?

What happens when they update your prints? Or they never get updated in some central system and are only used to check against a DB?

Macy did a good job. My prints are unclassifiable.

 

[LoginName]

RAP BACK is really nothing new in MA. MA has had "subsequent activity" notification to issuing departments since 1998. Any court activity is linked to the FRB database of LTC/FID holders and issuing agency is notified within 1 day. It only works for MA court activity, but is used to suspend/revoke on "accusations".


Every courthouse in MA has been computerizing old hand-written records for many years now. Each courthouse is at a different point in time, so lots of people get "surprised" on renewal when they suddenly get denied for something that happened 30-50 yrs ago.

I have an old DUI from 1980 that hasn't turned up yet even though I've always disclosed it.
No arrest or court record to be found (for now anyways).
One time the licensing officer told me he was baffled that he dug as far as he could but didn't find any record of it anywhere
even though it was pre 5/27/94 so it really shouldn't have mattered.

 

[308rifleman]

I have an old DUI from 1980 that hasn't turned up yet even though I've always disclosed it.
No arrest or court record to be found (for now anyways).
One time the licensing officer told me he was baffled that he dug as far as he could but didn't find any record of it anywhere
even though it was pre 5/27/94 so it really shouldn't have mattered.

Lucky dude!

 

[whacko]

I have an old DUI from 1980 that hasn't turned up yet even though I've always disclosed it.
No arrest or court record to be found (for now anyways).
One time the licensing officer told me he was baffled that he dug as far as he could but didn't find any record of it anywhere
even though it was pre 5/27/94 so it really shouldn't have mattered.

You are lucky. I know a guy that had dwi in 1979 and 1980.......nothing after that until 2015 when he got popped for a DWI in his 60s. They were in the system and Lifetime look back in mass made that his 3rd DWI and they threw the book at him. Felony conviction, some jail time, lost his license for 8 frigging years and a HUGE fine.

 

[42!]

Another word of caution here, say you got busted for some minor BS 30 years ago like the OP, and you believe (or have reason to believe),
that the record of it will never turn up.

You apply for your LTC/FID, don't disclose the conviction, get printed and lo and behold you come back clean.

You continue to do the same thing on your renewal, and your next one... and your next one.

25-30 years later you go in for your renewal and seemingly out of nowhere they get a hit on that old record you thought
they new nothing about... it happens.

Sounds like LT Wareham FPD when he "left out" a juvi conviction that disqualified him. Of course he's a cop so they let all those years of lying on all those gov documents (and violating dept policy) just slide away with zero repercussions. The rest of use would have gone to jail.

 

[LoginName]

Sounds like LT Wareham FPD when he "left out" a juvi conviction that disqualified him. Of course he's a cop so they let all those years of lying on all those gov documents (and violating dept policy) just slide away with zero repercussions. The rest of use would have gone to jail.

IIRC, he later became the firearms licensing officer and was a hard ass on applicants.

 

[42!]

IIRC, he later became the firearms licensing officer and was a hard ass on applicants.

We was the LO when his LTC was pulled and they just let him keep the job. He talked a lot of people out of applying, you know, because.... I'm just going to deny you so why bother... He liked soft denials but would go the suitability route. The FPD has a full-time attorney on staff to handle this kind of sh@t. This is on top of a full time city council and the DA's office.

 

[LoginName]

Lucky dude!

You are lucky. I know a guy that had dwi in 1979 and 1980.......nothing after that until 2015 when he got popped for a DWI in his 60s. They were in the system and Lifetime look back in mass made that his 3rd DWI and they threw the book at him. Felony conviction, some jail time, lost his license for 8 frigging years and a HUGE fine.

It is luck I guess, or just a result of a bureaucratic mess, but there's always the chance that it will show up eventually.

Not that it matters or I give a f***. I always disclosed it and it was (at the time of the offense), a non-statutory disqualifier.

I'd love to see them deny me for lying on my application because I put down an arrest and conviction but they
couldn't find any record of that ever happening.