GOAL, many P.D.'s and the CHSB are out of FA10s

[DickWanner]

We have a bunch at C & F in Middleborough. I'd be happy to give them out if you just promise to bring some back when they become available again

 

[Mark from MA]

I just called them and the same story. No idea, blah, blah, blah. I asked about scanning one he said no, can't do that they need to have a serial number. He suggested to ask a gun shop if they have any to spare or do the transfer at a gun shop.]

Yeah...right. Dealer transfer cost money...Are they repaying the transfer fees because they have no forms? If you are not out of FTF there's no reason you should have to pay transfer fees. Also what if I have a non-dealer compliant transfer and they won't do it? What do I do then? HMMM???

 

[radioman]

Sounds like a ploy to slow down gun sales in the state? Now the only people that can sell a gun is a shop? How convenient!!!

 

[lord1234]

I just called them and the same story. No idea, blah, blah, blah. I asked about scanning one he said no, can't do that they need to have a serial number. He suggested to ask a gun shop if they have any to spare or do the transfer at a gun shop.




Good point, the law says nothing about using a special form. Wait until they start getting some homemade ones.

Incorrect, http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-128a.htm

 

[GOAL C.M.]

Jim just got off the phone with Jason Guida from the CHSB. He was told that photo copied/scanned FA 10s will not work because they will not scan properly.

Look for more info from this conversation soon, Jim is writing it up as I type this.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Jim just got off the phone with Jason Guida from the CHSB. He was told that photo copied/scanned FA 10s will not work because they will not scan properly.

Look for more info from this conversation soon, Jim is writing it up as I type this.

If they work or not is there problem. Our problem is to comply with the law.

 

[OnTheRoad]

Chapter 140: Section 128B. Unauthorized purchase of firearms; report to commissioner; penalties


Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than such a licensee or person, and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the executive director of the criminal history systems board the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number. Whoever violates any provision of this section shall for the first offense be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $1,000 and for any subsequent offense by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than ten years.

MGL says nothing about a serial number on the reporting notification. If they want a report in writing, why not create a report to the letter of the law and only give them exactly what is required:

In accordance with MGL Chapter 140, Sect. 128B, I hereby report the following (purchase/sale/acquisition, etc) to the Executive Director of the Criminal History Systems Board:

Name and Address of Seller or Donor:

Buyer or Donee:

Description of Firearm, Rifle, Shotgun or Machine Gun:
Caliber:
Make:
Serial Number:

Signed:

Curious how the FA-10 asks a bunch of questions that 121B doesn't require: large capacity, occupation, FID/LTC/FFL number...is there some other law or regulation that makes the reporting of such data mandatory or are they just slipping that in there?

 

[dwarven1]

And unfortunately, there's a phrase in the online copy of the law that's NOT in RKG's post.

Chapter 140: Section 128A. Application of Sec. 128

Section 128A. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any person who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers a firearm, rifle or shotgun to a person licensed under said section one hundred and twenty-two, or to a federally licensed firearms dealer or to a federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any resident of the commonwealth who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers to other than a federally licensed firearms dealer or organization named above not more than four firearms, including rifles and shotguns in any one calendar year; provided, however, that the seller has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms, is an exempt person under the conditions of clauses (n), (o), (r) and (s) of the fourth paragraph of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or is permitted to transfer ownership under the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D and the purchaser has, in the case of sale or transfer of a firearm, a permit to purchase issued under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty-one A and a firearm identification card issued under section one hundred and twenty-nine B, or has such permit to purchase and is an exempt person under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or has been issued a license to carry firearms under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty, or in the case of sale or transfer of a rifle or shotgun, the purchaser has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms or is an exempt person as hereinbefore stated; and provided, further, that such resident reports within seven days, in writing to the executive director of the criminal history systems board on forms furnished by said executive director, the names and addresses of the seller and the purchaser of any such large capacity feeding device, firearm, rifle or shotgun, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle or shotgun, including its designation as a large capacity weapon, if applicable, the calibre, make and serial number and the purchaser’s license to carry firearms number, permit to purchase number and identifying number of such documentation as is used to establish exempt person status in the case of a firearm or the purchaser’s license to carry number or firearm identification card number or said document identity number, in the case of a rifle or shotgun.

Good grief, do any of the a**h***s in the State House ever take an ENGLISH class??? Didn't their teachers teach them not to use RUN-ON SENTENCES???????

 

[Admin]

MGL says nothing about a serial number on the reporting notification. If they want a report in writing, why not create a report to the letter of the law and only give them exactly what is required:

Curious how the FA-10 asks a bunch of questions that 121B doesn't require: large capacity, occupation, FID/LTC/FFL number...is there some other law or regulation that makes the reporting of such data mandatory or are they just slipping that in there?

I'm betting on the latter.

 

[Mike-Mike]

According to this law, Are we suppose to be filling out an FA-10 for an empty large capacity magazine?

 

[DickWanner]

According to this law, Are we suppose to be filling out an FA-10 for an empty large capacity magazine?

Ut-oh, I think I'm going to now have to send in a couple dozen 'registration' FA-10s for all the "large-capacity feeding devices" I own

 

[not new guy]

So if they stopped printing FA10s all sales would probably have to be run through FFLs? Do FFLs use any of the usual online checks associated with a sale when they're involved in a transfer like this?

 

[terraformer]

According to this law, Are we suppose to be filling out an FA-10 for an empty large capacity magazine?

Probably...

 

[terraformer]

And unfortunately, there's a phrase in the online copy of the law that's NOT in RKG's post.



Good grief, do any of the a**h***s in the State House ever take an ENGLISH class??? Didn't their teachers teach them not to use RUN-ON SENTENCES???????

So if they fail to furnish the forms...

 

[OnTheRoad]

Maybe I'm wrong but it looks like under 128A sellers haveto file a written report (via FA-10) and under 128B buyers need to file a (second) written report.

My brain hurts.

 

[DickWanner]

So if they stopped printing FA10s all sales would probably have to be run through FFLs? Do FFLs use any of the usual online checks associated with a sale when they're involved in a transfer like this?

Not sure what you mean, a transfer through an FFL is essentially the same as a general sale through an FFL. The shop takes possession of the firearms from the seller and then transfers it to the buyer as if it were part of their regular stock. A 4473/NICS and electronic FA-10 are filled out by the buyer. This is why it costs money.

 

[terraformer]

I just called them and the same story. No idea, blah, blah, blah. I asked about scanning one he said no, can't do that they need to have a serial number. He suggested to ask a gun shop if they have any to spare or do the transfer at a gun shop.

I am betting the database setup they have doesn't have a system for creating the serial numbers and so need the ones off of the forms. That is a brain dead setup.

 

[drgrant]

That's too damned bad if it needs the FA 10 form serial number.... that's not our problem.

-Mike

 

[terraformer]

Hey guys, I have been thinking, lets not tin foil this too much. Some times the right answer is the simplest. This is MA government right? Why do we think they are competent enough to keep these forms stocked. Lets keep on letting GOAL research this for us and wait for factual information.

 

[drgrant]

So if they stopped printing FA10s all sales would probably have to be run through FFLs? Do FFLs use any of the usual online checks associated with a sale when they're involved in a transfer like this?

Again, the law does not specify a form, only that you have to report the transfer. The form was created to facilitate doing this, but by no means does that mean that it is the only way to fulfill the requirement set forth in the law itself.

-Mike

 

[terraformer]

Again, the law does not specify a form, only that you have to report the transfer. The form was created to facilitate doing this, but by no means does that mean that it is the only way to fulfill the requirement set forth in the law itself.

-Mike

See more recent posts. It does appear that the form is required by law now. At least the online version of the MGL states it.

 

[Mark from MA]

So if they stopped printing FA10s all sales would probably have to be run through FFLs? Do FFLs use any of the usual online checks associated with a sale when they're involved in a transfer like this?

Yes they run the checks, and charge you 25-40 dollars that you wouldn't pay if you had the form.

 

[Admin]

And the sheep keep being sheep...

Has the state ever run out of Drivers License stock? Have they ever run out of registration stickers?

Nope, they ran out of FA10's from either incompetence or corruption.

 

[Pilgrim]

And the sheep keep being sheep...

Has the state ever run out of Drivers License stock? Have they ever run out of registration stickers?

Nope, they ran out of FA10's from either incompetence or corruption.

or on purpose to eliminate face to face transfers completely and 'the gun show loophole' without having to pass unpassable legislation to do it.

 

[Mark from MA]

And the sheep keep being sheep...

Has the state ever run out of Drivers License stock? Have they ever run out of registration stickers?

Nope, they ran out of FA10's from either incompetence or corruption.

+1 If this is how the law reads. Then the director who cannot furnish a simple form, is not complying with the law, and should be held as accountable as someone who does not fill out a form.

 

[dagwag77]

And the sheep keep being sheep...

Has the state ever run out of Drivers License stock? Have they ever run out of registration stickers?

Nope, they ran out of FA10's from either incompetence or corruption.

And it didn't happen overnight. They've been playing this we're almost out/we're out of FA-10s dance for a while now, and they aren't getting on the ball to get some more... They're dicking with us.

 

[not new guy]

or on purpose to eliminate face to face transfers completely and 'the gun show loophole' without having to pass unpassable legislation to do it.

Hopefully this isn't the case. I'll leave my tinfoil hat all crumpled up in the sock drawer for the time being, but it's there in case I need it.

+1 If this is how the law reads. Then the director who cannot furnish a simple form, is not complying with the law, and should be held as accountable as someone who does not fill out a form.

He's not the one looking to make the transfer, which is what the law applies to.

 

[Mark from MA]

Hopefully this isn't the case. I'll leave my tinfoil hat all crumpled up in the sock drawer for the time being, but it's there in case I need it.



He's not the one making the sale, which is what the law applies to.

The state creates a law that requires a form, then it is to be held accountable to supply that form so the people can comply with the law. We all pay 100 dollars for our licenses and they can't supply a simple a**h*** form. There is no excuse for this.

 

[not new guy]

What I'm saying is if they cannot supply the forms the law is invalid because it cannot be complied with.

Oh, I understand what you're saying, I'm just doubting that argument is going to get anybody anywhere. It won't make the law invalid, it will just make compliance all but impossible unless you manage to get your hands on one of the forms.

 

[Admin]

A class action law suit against the state of MA might speed things up.