GOAL, many P.D.'s and the CHSB are out of FA10s

[terraformer]

OK, I think I was mis understood.

I did not mean don't make a stink. I meant, don't think this is some nefarious plot to close the gun show loophole. Call legislators? Sure, I wasn't precluding or advocating it. It wasn't even in my mind at the time. But claiming this is some tin foil plot to close down FTF sales is a sure fire way to get folks to ignore you. Telling them on the other hand that you are being denied your legal right of transferring a firearm legally by lack of these forms is a good tact. That will get people's attention. Calling attention to the benefits of FTF sales... Not so smart from a strategical perspective.

Calling CHRB is of negligible value. They want to hide whatever stupidity they got themselves into. Go around them. Call legislators. But don't get tin foolio when you do. You will sound stupid. Stick to the facts. You can't transfer a firearm legally via your FTF allotments because of the lack of forms and your only alternative is to pay beau coup bucks for an FFL to do it. Full stop. Going further will risk you a) attracting attention to things you don't want attention on and b) will give them something to focus on other than the CHRBs lack of actions (due to incompetence, nefariousness, etc it doesn't matter. The truth will come out).

 

[not new guy]

A class action law suit against the state of MA might speed things up.

A court order should get the job done, and much easier to file for. For these forms to be anything short of readily accessible is unacceptable.

 

[not new guy]

Thank you, GOAL, for following this (and everything else you do).

 

[Coyote33]

Oh, I understand what you're saying, I'm just doubting that argument is going to get anybody anywhere. It won't make the law invalid, it will just make compliance all but impossible unless you manage to get your hands on one of the forms.

So then people stop complying.

So then would you say that the state is complicit in conspiring to break the law?

 

[drgrant]

See more recent posts. It does appear that the form is required by law now. At least the online version of the MGL states it.

I stand corrected, then. It says "forms furnished by the director". Obviously, we're at the "Well, what do we do if the director doesn't want to furnish forms. ?" stage.

-Mike

 

[not new guy]

So then people stop complying.

So then would you say that the state is complicit in conspiring to break the law?

Playing devil's advocate, they could still get the transfer done through an FFL, so there is a lawful path available. Unfortunately, that path costs money and apparently involves additional checks and controls.

 

[Admin]

I stand corrected, then. It says "forms furnished by the director". Obviously, we're at the "Well, what do we do if the director doesn't want to furnish forms. ?" stage.

-Mike

Fire the incompetent director and hire a new one.

 

[Admin]

Playing devil's advocate, they could still get the transfer done through an FFL, so there is a lawful path available. Unfortunately, that path costs money and apparently involves additional checks and controls.

Or you could just not buy or sell to a private individual and stop all this bitching after all who are you guys but peasants to the state of Massachusetts. Pay your taxes, do as you're told, and shut up.

 

[not new guy]

Or you could just not buy or sell to a private individual and stop all this bitching after all who are you guys but peasants to the state of Massachusetts. Pay your taxes, do as you're told, and shut up.

I like to think of myself as a subject, not a peasant, but yeah, you're right. We should be happy they let us have anything at all.


I'd be interested in finding the legislative history behind the change to Chapter 140: Section 128A. Application of Sec. 128. Do we have any real lawyers on here?

 

[Admin]

I'd be interested in finding the legislative history behind the change to Chapter 140: Section 128A. Application of Sec. 128. Do we have any real lawyers on here?

We have a bunch and one of them is a real son of a bitch so be careful how you word your question.

 

[not new guy]

This is section 7. Maybe the Director of CHSB was planning on it passing...

http://www.mass.gov/Agov3/docs/050609GunControlBill.pdf

 

[Mark from MA]

Playing devil's advocate, they could still get the transfer done through an FFL, so there is a lawful path available. Unfortunately, that path costs money and apparently involves additional checks and controls.

Bullshit. Legally you are entitled to 4 free FTF's a year, that is the law. Anything else is pandering to a government office that your taxes and your License fees pay for. Therefore they should be held accountable for the required forms. There is no devil's advocate...you are trying to comply with the law but cannot because of the state. It is THEIR fault not yours.......

 

[Mike-Mike]

Bullshit. Legally you are entitled to UNLIMITED free FTF's a year, that is the law. Anything else is pandering to a government office that your taxes and your License fees pay for.

Fixed it for ya!
You can only SELL 4.

 

[not new guy]

Bullshit. Legally you are entitled to 4 free FTF's a year, that is the law. Anything else is pandering to a government office that your taxes and your License fees pay for.

Tell it to the judge - I'm on your side.

 

[not new guy]

Bullshit. Legally you are entitled to 4 free FTF's a year, that is the law. Anything else is pandering to a government office that your taxes and your License fees pay for.

And sure, you can have your 4 free FTFs, you just need to get yourself an FA10. The CHSB has a record of 300 of them still out there on the market somewhere - in fact there was just one for sale on northeastshooters.com last week for $150.

 

[not new guy]

This is section 7. Maybe the Director of CHSB was planning on it passing...

http://www.mass.gov/Agov3/docs/050609GunControlBill.pdf

This isn't it - so how did those words magically appear in the MGLs?

 

[Mark from MA]

Tell it to the judge - I'm on your side.

I know....

 

[Catoperat]

We have a bunch and one of them is a real son of a bitch so be careful how you word your question.

.

 

[terraformer]

This isn't it - so how did those words magically appear in the MGLs?

That is an excellent question. Hmmm.... Let me see if google has the answer.

 

[not new guy]

That is an excellent question. Hmmm.... Let me see if google has the answer.

Just tried - the words were in there at least as far back as 2006 based on some posts citing the chapter here on NES (unless what I'm looking at was a LenS post updated at a later date).

 

[Mike-Mike]

That is an excellent question. Hmmm.... Let me see if google has the answer.

This is effed up. The law was passed on a specific date. What did it say then?

 

[terraformer]

Just tried - the words were in there at least as far back as 2006 based on some posts citing the chapter here on NES (unless what I'm looking at was a LenS post updated at a later date).

hmmm... I see bills dating to 2009 so I doubt the change was made in 2006.

I also just found the permits to purchase subsection. I thought they tossed that. Anyhow, still working on it.

 

[theGringo]

What would happen if they ran out of voter registration forms? That the state has no business charging a fee for the exercise of a constitutional right is a dead horse I'm not up for flogging. But when they create a required form for the purpose, then make the form unavailable, then I call shenanigans.

 

[not new guy]

It looks like 128A has the language and 128B doesn't. 128A is for lawful transfers, and 128B looks like it's for people reporting unauthorized purchases. Makes sense I guess.

 

[terraformer]

What would happen if they ran out of voter registration forms?

Who says that hasn't happened... I don't know if it was MA or another state, but there was a bruhaha about the weight of the paper stock that voter registration forms were submitted on recently.

So, as far back as Aug 2004 this language was in there. Odd that there are bills from last year which try to modify language that is not in there as of 2004. I am stumped.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040827054533/http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-128a.htm

 

[dagwag77]

§ 128A. Exceptions to Applicability of § 128.

The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any person who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers a firearm, rifle or shotgun to a person licensed under said section one hundred and twenty-two, or to a federally licensed firearms dealer or to a federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any resident of the commonwealth who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers to other than a federally licensed firearms dealer or organization named above not more than four firearms, including rifles and shotguns in any one calendar year; provided, however, that the seller has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms, is an exempt person under the conditions of clauses (n), (o), (r) and (s) of the fourth paragraph of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or is permitted to transfer ownership under the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D and the purchaser has, in the case of sale or transfer of a firearm, a permit to purchase issued under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty-one A and a firearm identification card issued under section one hundred and twenty-nine B, or has such permit to purchase and is an exempt person under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or has been issued a license to carry firearms under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty, or in the case of sale or transfer of a rifle or shotgun, the purchaser has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms or is an exempt person as hereinbefore stated; and provided, further, that such resident reports within seven days, in writing to the executive director of the criminal history systems board on forms furnished by said executive director, the names and addresses of the seller and the purchaser of any such large capacity feeding device, firearm, rifle or shotgun, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle or shotgun, including its designation as a large capacity weapon, if applicable, the calibre, make and serial number and the purchaser's license to carry firearms number, permit to purchase number and identifying number of such documentation as is used to establish exempt person status in the case of a firearm or the purchaser's license to carry number or firearm identification card number or said document identity number, in the case of a rifle or shotgun.

HISTORY: 1968, 737, § 5; 1969, 799, § 6; 1980, 353; 1981, 597; 1991, 82, § 1; 1996, 151, §§ 314, 315; 1998, 180, §§ 25-27.

NOTES: Editorial Note

The 1969 amendment, rewrote the section, imposing additional conditions and restrictions upon sales by unlicensed residents.

The 1980 amendment, added a sentence to this section exempting antique firearm collectors and exhibitors from certain licensing requirements.

The 1981 amendment, in the first sentence, added an exception to the licensing requirements of § 128 for the sale or transfer of firearms, rifles or shotguns to a person licensed under § 122 or to a federally licensed firearms dealer, or to a federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public, and in light of this added exception, removed the former last sentence concerning an exception to the aforesaid § 128 for a person who conducts a display or exhibits more than four firearms.

The 1991 amendment, in the first sentence, substituted the first occurrence of "person" for "resident of the commonwealth", substituted "a firearm, rifle or shotgun" for "firearms, rifles or shotguns", and following "under" inserted "said".

The 1996 amendment, effective July 1, 1996, by § 314, substituted "executive director of the criminal history systems board" for "commissioner of public safety"; and by § 315, substituted "executive director" for "commissioner".

The 1998 amendment, effective Oct. 21, 1998, by § 25, inserted "or transfers" after the second instance of "sells"; by § 26, inserted "large capacity feeding device," after the third instance of "such"; and by § 27, inserted "its designation as a large capacity weapon, if applicable," after the first instance of "including".

 

[terraformer]

It looks like 128A has the language and 128B doesn't.

And that there is the issue. It is in 128... Oh, you ninja edited. Yes, that seems to be the issue. So the stuff from 2009 is trying to get 128b updated to match 128a.

 

[not new guy]

128B is for people who made an unauthorized purchase. If you don't report that unauthorized purchase to the director there's a(nother?) set of penalties. There's no form issued by the director for those for obvious reasons.

 

[not new guy]

I think they want to completely overhaul 128A and force all transfers through FFLs with this new big act.

 

[Coyote33]

And sure, you can have your 4 free FTFs, you just need to get yourself an FA10. The CHSB has a record of 300 of them still out there on the market somewhere - in fact there was just one for sale on northeastshooters.com last week for $150.

300 what? What was for sale? Forms? Like the transfer forms you can pick up at the police department and put in a file for future use? You lost me there.