GOING FOR LTC BUT WAS ARRESTED ONE TIME

i got my ltc-a un restricted but it was in a green town and i had contiuation without a finding for a b&e, i swear the people who say get a lawyer get a commision because thats all they recomend. Get youre records from the court house, write down everything on youre application be 100 percent honest.
 
nissanaltima21 said:
i got my ltc-a un restricted but it was in a green town and i had contiuation without a finding for a b&e, i swear the people who say get a lawyer get a commision because thats all they recomend. Get youre records from the court house, write down everything on youre application be 100 percent honest.
Click to expand...

It worked for you...but that is no guarantee that it will work for someone else or that it will work for you in the future. Just because you have an unrestricted LTC A now, doesn't mean that you will have one in the future. Move to a different town or they get a new chief or licensing officer, you might not be suitable (stuff like this has happened).

Your experience is anecdotal, and hence while it is valuable that you shared it, doesn't preclude the fact that it may not be universally true. Kindly remember that there are 351 cities and towns in the Commonwealth and hence 351 different gun laws.

I am very happy that things worked out for you, but if someone has any doubt they should see a firearms lawyer. Get rejected once, and it is going to stain any future application processes.

Also too, there are a lot of variables in a CWOF.

And...no I receive no commission (that is a somewhat odious implication) but I do work in the criminal justice system and perhaps have been around the system a little bit longer, and a little bit more extensively than you have. When Boudrie, or Nance or LenS or M1911 or Terraformer or Dr Grant (and several others) tell you something as a generality take it to the bank because they know what they are talking about.

I knew a fellow once who got a freebie in a brothel because the girl liked the way he looked and it was a slow night...but that doesn't mean that everybody else didn't have to pay [wink] YMMV
 
Last edited:
i got my ltc-a un restricted but it was in a green town and i had contiuation without a finding for a b&e, i swear the people who say get a lawyer get a commision because thats all they recomend. Get youre records from the court house, write down everything on youre application be 100 percent honest.
Click to expand...

A most important thing to do with ANY LTC-A/Unrestricted application is to do your research, and understand the policies of the department where you will be applying. When I apply in my home town, I just write "All lawful purposes" under the "reason" section of the application, and it's approved for renewal as a routine matter once all the record checks come back. Similarly, if I were to apply in certain red or black towns, I would realize I had to do a LOT of preparation in terms of documentation to present a case why my application should be one of the few approved for restrictions:none.

There are towns where having a record that is not a disqualifier will not, in general, be used against you as long as you are open and truthful with the licensing officer. If you are confident your town is one of those, going pro-se when you apply is fine. Similarly, if you realize you would rather roll over than pay legal fees if the town says "CWOF, no LTC for you", going pro-se makes sense. What does not make sense is applying in a town where the agency is likely to reject for a CWOF with a plan to hire counsel if rejected. It doesn't cost much to take your completed application to an office consult and tell an attorney "I will hire you if I am turned down; can you advise any changes I should make to this application before submission that will make your job of handing an appeal easier?".

As mark056 mentions, the approval does not inoculate you from further problems - though it certainly may help on renewals, particularly with the same town. If you doubt this, just move to Brookline and apply for a renewal :).
 
Last edited:
mark056 said:
I knew a fellow once who got a freebie in a brothel once because the girl liked the way he looked and it was a slow night...but that doesn't mean that everybody else didn't have to pay [wink] YMMV
Click to expand...


He must be a handsome devil. I wish I was good looking enough that working girls wanted to give me free samples.
 
jeez just offered my experience, consulting with a lawyer is probably the best but some people dont have the funds. If and when the time comes to renew if i get a restriction ill move to a free state if im not already gone by then anyway. If you have to take a piss in the next 10 mins call youre lawyer first to make sure its ok he might come over and hold it for you.
 
nissanaltima21 said:
jeez just offered my experience, consulting with a lawyer is probably the best but some people dont have the funds. If and when the time comes to renew if i get a restriction ill move to a free state if im not already gone by then anyway. If you have to take a piss in the next 10 mins call youre lawyer first to make sure its ok he might come over and hold it for you.
Click to expand...

No that's not what you wrote, you made a sweeping generalization and then went on to imply that anyone who suggested or advocated going to an attorney was somehow going to get a kickback from said attorney. If you had stated your anecdotal experience exactly as that, then you would have made a valuable contribution to the forum, IMO. Instead you failed to either write critically or read your own post critically.

Concerning your CWOF: this is going to follow you around for the rest of your life (don't believe otherwise, I routinely run across CWOFs from twenty years ago), and if you move to another state, there might even be confusion about what it means as it is a Massachusetts thing (other states have similar statuses, but use different nomenclature). I can tell you this from working in the criminal justice system (not as cop or an attorney): a lot of people in the system view a CWOF as a "guilty but got away with it" finding (even though technically it is not a finding). YMMV, but frequently the impression is you either had a very good attorney or you had enough juice to get a pee-pee slap and nothing more. I will not refute the fact too, that basically innocent people get CWOFs as a way of avoiding trial and possible conviction. It's a lot cheaper and a lot less risky and people fall into the trap that "after a while it will just go away." It doesn't.

Your last sentence of your most recent post clearly illustrates that you were not and are not trying to be objective at all. You were lucky, and then too you might want to avoid making grandiose statements about where you are going to live because you never know where you are going to wind up, and green towns have been known to turn red or are turning red (Fitchburg comes to mind).

Again, I'm very happy that you got an unrestricted LTC-A, but please don't use your example as a template for everyone else in your shoes. Rob Boudrie probably summed up the situation best and remember that CWOF means you are a bad guy in the minds of at least some people, and some of those people can have a direct influence on your life in the future.
 
Last edited:
nissanaltima21 said:
jeez just offered my experience, consulting with a lawyer is probably the best but some people dont have the funds. If and when the time comes to renew if i get a restriction ill move to a free state if im not already gone by then anyway. If you have to take a piss in the next 10 mins call youre lawyer first to make sure its ok he might come over and hold it for you.
Click to expand...

Looking for trouble??? As a noob, you don't know much. How about just shut up and learn. I'll hold your tiny weeny for you. Just let me know if need help.


Sent from my iPhone 5.
 
RE: CWOFs

1. You would be doing yourself a long-term favor if you got a copy of the docket sheet for your files now, when you remember the details and have physical access the courthouse (I prefer certified, Lens mentioned he's never seen a case where that makes a difference). Tracking this down years later when you live in a different jurisdiction, particularly out of state, can be a pain. As Mark056 mentions, there are cases where out of state record checks confuse these alternate dispositions with convictions. I know of a case where another state used a term that sounded like a conviction, and MA refused to issue a license - leaving the applicant to hire an attorney to prove his case disposition was indeed a non-conviction.

2. CWOF still has legal risk. Every year or two, Rep Linsky introduces a bill that if passed would cause any CWOF to be treated as a conviction for firearms licensing purposes. Yes, there are ex post facto issues - but that didn't stop ex post facto prohibitions being added to felons in 1934, or certain misdemeanons in 1986. There is also precedent for treating CWOF as a conviction for "certain purposes" - for example, DUI law treats CWOFs as "previous convictions" for the purposes of DUI sentencing.

3. As to "guilty but got away with it". Most courts in MA require ASF (Admission to sufficient facts) as a condition of getting a CWOF. So, you basically have to admit to having "done the deed" - and this fact is recorded on the docket sheet. If you get a CWOF without ASF you are either really lucky or have a very connected attorney. Do not expect "the system" to be receptive of "I didn't do it, but admitted I did to get the deal" - once you admit it, un-admitting it is like unringing a bell.

4. As to "kickbacks". I might get a discount on the hourly rate if I ever have to hire one of the gun attorneys I have referred people to. They again, I may not. There is no kickback deal of any kind in place.
 
Last edited:
Stef said:
LOL

Then he's just an idiot, not a noob.

LOL
Click to expand...

He's not necessarily an idiot - just limited in his experience to the MA system. I doubt he has ever read any of the landmark court decisions (Moyer v. Sherborn; Godfrey v. Wellesley; McNutt v. Boston; Booker v. Boston; etc.) nor has he read any of the lesser court decisions from LTC appeal hearings.

Unless you are actually exposed to some of the "curious" aspects of the MA licensing system, it would be reasonable to conclude that issuance of LTCs is standardized; fair; universally respectful of not guilty findings; and uniformly administered. Some of the MA customs, and procedures, are just so bizarre as to defy logic and you can lose track of how strange they are once you've been here a while.

Just try telling a newcomer to MA that:

- A non-citizen who lives in NH can get a handgun license, but a resident alien cannot (ok, so we've been working on that one)

- The state will license a non-resident to carry a concealed handgun, but has no procedure to let that person buy ammo while he is in MA.

- The MA courts have held that exercising your right to remain silent may be used as the basis to revoke your right to own a handgun

- Despite all of this, a stripped frame that is a handgun in all, or just about all, other states requires no state licensing or paperwork in MA unless subsequently assembled into a full gun

- Pepper spray is ammunition

- You can shoot a dog for attacking your cow, but are on shakey legal ground if you shoot a dog who is attacking your dog.

- Sealed records aren't.

- Hearsay, rumor, innuendo and unproven accusations may be used as the basis of denial of an LTC (even a restricted one)

- A rifle or shotgun is not a firearm, only a handgun is - but a Firearms ID card does not let you buy a handgun, only a rifle or shotgun.

I'm sure there are more.
 
Last edited:
nissanaltima21 said:
you could always go thru the proper channel to get it expunged but i heard that can be costly
Click to expand...

Expungement applications are relatively simple for minor offenses in PA, and you might even be able to pull it off without an attorney.

If a record is "expunged" you generally have a legal right to say "no record or arrest" (the term here is "a legal fiction"), however, do not expect any MA licensing officer to understand, or accept, the concept of "legal fiction" if (s)he finds out about your "expunged" record and you answered NO to question 10.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Expungement applications are relatively simple for minor offenses in PA, and you might even be able to pull it off without an attorney.

If a record is "expunged" you generally have a legal right to say "no record or arrest" (the term here is "a legal fiction"), however, do not expect any MA licensing officer to understand, or accept, the concept of "legal fiction" if (s)he finds out about your "expunged" record and you answered NO to question 10.
Click to expand...

Yet we have people here calling for a death sentence for a DUI/OUI...[hmmm][rolleyes]
 

Similar threads

Going to reapply for my FID/LTC back after it being revoked about 10 years ago.
Replies
17
Views
571
AMV
A
LTC Address Change
Replies
11
Views
260
Shevchenko
Shevchenko
Donnell case was appealed by the state
Replies
27
Views
817
design
design
Expired MA LTC = useful?
Replies
21
Views
661
67ray
67ray
Can we own Pre made paper cartridge without FID/LTC?
Replies
8
Views
164
G753
G
Back
Top Bottom