Gunbroker Nightmare

Rob Boudrie said:
But the item was shipped to exactly the person/location specified by the buyer.
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I was under the impression that it was not. The entity was no longer at the address and was in fact a different business at that location?
I'd dispute the charge no matter what. They would have to show proof of delivery , with a name and signature.
 
fencer said:
I was under the impression that it was not. The entity was no longer at the address and was in fact a different business at that location?
I'd dispute the charge no matter what. They would have to show proof of delivery , with a name and signature.
Click to expand...
I'm just waiting a few more days of a grace period before I go the charge back and/or police report route. Two things I wouldn't do to my worse enemy.
 
fencer said:
I was under the impression that it was not. The entity was no longer at the address and was in fact a different business at that location?
I'd dispute the charge no matter what. They would have to show proof of delivery , with a name and signature.
Click to expand...
Correct. Almost an identical business name at the same address.

I don't normally name names but if this doesn't get solved I'll tell you all the dealer, town, etc, albeit its unlikely that manner of you will ever be or shop here.
 
Ultrarunner said:
Correct. Almost an identical business name at the same address.

I don't normally name names but if this doesn't get solved I'll tell you all the dealer, town, etc, albeit its unlikely that manner of you will ever be or shop here.
Click to expand...

Just last month I drove to Alaska to buy a shotgun, so ya never know! It was $150 cheaper than the deli ticket emporium, so I did it purely out of spite.
 
Just wondering ... is a charge back the correct thing to do, since the seller shipped it to the address on file. I don't see how this can be the seller's fault.

Just saying. Not trying to be a d*ck.
 
Ultrarunner said:
Correct. Almost an identical business name at the same address.

I don't normally name names but if this doesn't get solved I'll tell you all the dealer, town, etc, albeit its unlikely that manner of you will ever be or shop here.
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Actually, you should tell us so someone else doesn't go through this qnd you should tell GB so they remove that FFL from their files.

No one did anything wrong, except maybe the dealer should habe updated his FFL with Gun Broker.

But the seller did nothing wrong, the receiving FFL didn't do anything wrong and looks like USPS might have delivered to the address on the tag or they did they right thing and didn't deliver it because the name didn't match.
 
Zappa said:
Why are so many of you making references to USPS (Post Office) when they don't even allow shipping of handguns.
These items can only be shipped by UPS and Fed-Ex.
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Dealers can and do ship USPS for all guns including handguns.

Ultrarunner said:
Dealer to dealer can ship handguns overnight via USPS and most often do.
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No requirement to be overnight. Regular Priority for handguns is all that is required and what I use for 90% of my shipments.
 
Many people mention the ATF as part of the solution. The ATF is of no help in this situation if contacted by the OP. The ATF will only take missing/stolen gun reports from FFLs.

Report Firearms Theft or Loss | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Reporting for Federal Firearms Licensees Any Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) who has knowledge of the theft or loss of any firearms from their inventory must report such theft or loss within 48 hours of discovery to ATF and to the local law enforcement agency. (Regulations at 27 CFR § 478.39a...
www.atf.gov www.atf.gov

Specifically "ATF does not take reports of stolen firearms from private citizens"

There is a responsibility on the shipper. If the receiving FFL says the gun was not received for ANY reason, then the shipper must within 48 hours notify the ATF. This is a hard requirement under the terms of your FFL. So if the tracking is showing undeliverable and the receiving FFL is saying "no bueno" then the shipper is on the hook to report it missing/stolen. Failure to make this report within 48 hours will, under the Biden ATF, result in loss of license.

As a practical matter, the shipping FFL needs to first report the gun missing to their local PD as the ATF form requires a local PD report # as part of the report. It is also on local PD to enter the gun into the national database of missing/stolen guns (and to remove it later if found).

The OP can contact the ATF and let them know that the gun is missing and the shipping FFL has declined to report the issue to the ATF. That will result in action including a bad outcome for the shipping FFL. That is your leverage with the shipper. Let them know you know the requirement and you will report THEM to the ATF (since you cant report it missing).

The OP should succeed in their charge back under these circumstances.

The OP has no basis for a police report. You are not responsible for what is missing if it is lost in transit. That is 100% on the shipper.
 
You should have asked your receiving FFL if he would receive the package.
IF he says yes, then it is up to him to send his FFL credential to the shipper.

You can't expect some random dealer someplace to have the correct FFL info for the receiving dealer.

What does the tracking say?

If undeliverable the USPS should have it.

If it says delivered then the new guy at the old address has a free gun.

Having a FFL on file at another FFL business is only legit if the both agree to it.
 
CrackPot said:
Many people mention the ATF as part of the solution. The ATF is of no help in this situation if contacted by the OP. The ATF will only take missing/stolen gun reports from FFLs.

Report Firearms Theft or Loss | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Reporting for Federal Firearms Licensees Any Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) who has knowledge of the theft or loss of any firearms from their inventory must report such theft or loss within 48 hours of discovery to ATF and to the local law enforcement agency. (Regulations at 27 CFR § 478.39a...
www.atf.gov www.atf.gov

Specifically "ATF does not take reports of stolen firearms from private citizens"

There is a responsibility on the shipper. If the receiving FFL says the gun was not received for ANY reason, then the shipper must within 48 hours notify the ATF. This is a hard requirement under the terms of your FFL. So if the tracking is showing undeliverable and the receiving FFL is saying "no bueno" then the shipper is on the hook to report it missing/stolen. Failure to make this report within 48 hours will, under the Biden ATF, result in loss of license.

As a practical matter, the shipping FFL needs to first report the gun missing to their local PD as the ATF form requires a local PD report # as part of the report. It is also on local PD to enter the gun into the national database of missing/stolen guns (and to remove it later if found).

The OP can contact the ATF and let them know that the gun is missing and the shipping FFL has declined to report the issue to the ATF. That will result in action including a bad outcome for the shipping FFL. That is your leverage with the shipper. Let them know you know the requirement and you will report THEM to the ATF (since you cant report it missing).

The OP should succeed in their charge back under these circumstances.

The OP has no basis for a police report. You are not responsible for what is missing if it is lost in transit. That is 100% on the shipper.
Click to expand...

Even if the OP has the gun shipped to the wrong address?

Who is on the hook for the FFL having bad data?
 
Arlo39 said:
You need to stay on the post office to find it. It had to be assigned to delivery person and the fact it is a firearm. We had USPS deliver a receiver to Big-Y. We did some calling and the customer did as well. The service desk signed for it believing it was a box of stamps. They called to tells they had mail for us delivered to them. That’s when we put it together. We called them back to check the return address then one of us hightailed to Big-Y. So keep after USPS.
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This…stay on the post office. Had Fedex mis-deliver a package of not quite similar magnitude, but once told what was missing, they rolled out a friggin calvary. Seriously, like six trucks with supervisors driving around town with delivery data from that day. You’d think they had mis-placed an F35 fighter jet or something. If only the Feds had done half that work on finding out who was on Pedo island..best of luck. Maybe you can at least recover the $. The gun‘s probably in Holder’s cartel’s hands by now.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
I recently ordered ladder form Home Depot for $115.

When it did not arrive as scheduled, I waited a few days and contacted the shipper with the tracking number. "We can't find it, contact sellet"
Contacted Home Depot - they contacted seller, same story. Home depot cancels order, refunds $$ and offers me a discount price of $85.
New ladder ordered, does not show up when predicted. So I wait a few days.
And finally, two ladders are delivered for $85.
Click to expand...
I got four of a $1200 item, close to that way before
Order one item, came in broken
They send another and ask for me to ship the first back once I get the second
Broken again
I call them up and tell them now I have two broken items
They ship me two more and they are not broken.
So I had four at my house, two that needed $100 in repair parts and two in good condition
I called them again and ask for return labels. They never responded or emailed me again
I even emailed them and nothing
 
Rob Boudrie said:
I recently ordered ladder form Home Depot for $115.

When it did not arrive as scheduled, I waited a few days and contacted the shipper with the tracking number. "We can't find it, contact sellet"
Contacted Home Depot - they contacted seller, same story. Home depot cancels order, refunds $$ and offers me a discount price of $85.
New ladder ordered, does not show up when predicted. So I wait a few days.
And finally, two ladders are delivered for $85.
Click to expand...
Similar happened to me with a couple fo soccer jerseys. Ordered on, 2nd day shipping. A week after the tracking number said it shipped, nothing. I contact the seller. They send another one and both jerseys arrived.

This happens way too often, mail gets stuck in some sort of mail alternate universe.

Happened to me with ammo 2 times, but I didn't get extra ammo. As soon as TSUSA called UPS (great customer service from TSUSA), the boxes of ammo showed up a day or two later.
 
This whole scenario doesn't make sense. First off, was the FFL license on file with GB? If it is, the transaction gets approved and it gets shipped to them. If it isn't on file, you the buyer has to notify the receiving FFL to send their license to the seller before the whole transaction is completed on GB. Sounds like it must have been on file because you didn't say you had to contact the receiving dealer. Going forward, all firearms are usually shipped Priority Mail which has a tracking number. The carrier that delivers it has to scan the tracking number and if the sender requires a signature, then they have to get that too. Saying no one knows where the firearm is, is hard to believe. Call the USPS office where the carrier works out of and give them the tracking number and ask them where it was delivered. Tracking it on the website doesn't give you all the details but the supervisor at the USPS office can get you more detailed info from their internal system.
 
Broc said:
Even if the OP has the gun shipped to the wrong address?

Who is on the hook for the FFL having bad data?
Click to expand...
The shipper must ship to a FFL. If the receiving FFL does not receive the weapon for ANY reason, then the issue is still on the shipper. Until received it is not on the books of the receiving FFL so the ATF holds the shipper responsible and they must report it missing.

Right or wrong FFL is not a question. The only question is, was it shipped to A FFL and was it received. If the FFL with the nearly same name and nearly the same address says they did not receive it (and they cannot since the paperwork is for a different FFL). And the FFL that used to be there did not receive it, it is all on the shipper.

The ATF is pretty clear on this. Shipper is on the hook until received. Missing must be reported by the shipper within 48 hours of being made aware it is missing. They can claim that since the responsible party for the FFL they shipped to has not claimed it is missing, they are not "aware" as a possible defense.

There is no right or wrong FFL. There is just the FFL it was shipped to and whether it was received.
 
CrackPot said:
The shipper must ship to a FFL. If the receiving FFL does not receive the weapon for ANY reason, then the issue is still on the shipper. Until received it is not on the books of the receiving FFL so the ATF holds the shipper responsible and they must report it missing.

Right or wrong FFL is not a question. The only question is, was it shipped to A FFL and was it received. If the FFL with the nearly same name and nearly the same address says they did not receive it (and they cannot since the paperwork is for a different FFL). And the FFL that used to be there did not receive it, it is all on the shipper.

The ATF is pretty clear on this. Shipper is on the hook until received. Missing must be reported by the shipper within 48 hours of being made aware it is missing. They can claim that since the responsible party for the FFL they shipped to has not claimed it is missing, they are not "aware" as a possible defense.

There is no right or wrong FFL. There is just the FFL it was shipped to and whether it was received.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. Thanks, this is good stuff.
 
CrackPot said:
The shipper must ship to a FFL. If the receiving FFL does not receive the weapon for ANY reason, then the issue is still on the shipper. Until received it is not on the books of the receiving FFL so the ATF holds the shipper responsible and they must report it missing.

Right or wrong FFL is not a question. The only question is, was it shipped to A FFL and was it received. If the FFL with the nearly same name and nearly the same address says they did not receive it (and they cannot since the paperwork is for a different FFL). And the FFL that used to be there did not receive it, it is all on the shipper.

The ATF is pretty clear on this. Shipper is on the hook until received. Missing must be reported by the shipper within 48 hours of being made aware it is missing. They can claim that since the responsible party for the FFL they shipped to has not claimed it is missing, they are not "aware" as a possible defense.

There is no right or wrong FFL. There is just the FFL it was shipped to and whether it was received.
Click to expand...
Very helpful. And if the buyer gives the seller the wrong FFL (by honest mistake) than presumably it's up to the buyer to work it out with the FFL that received the firearm (again, assume for now the FFL did receive it)?
 

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