handgun "accidental" discharge experience?

I appreciate the safety comments and understand that it's likely 99% handler error. Given the couple of media instances where the person claims it happened while clearing the handgun, it makes me wonder if there is an inherent "sensitivity" for errors with semi-autos in the clearing process. Effectively, some variation of pulling the slide causing an unintended trigger pull if one's grip slips or if a slip partway into the clear causing a discharge. "Design" should make these non-issues if handled properly. But reality has its own rules, thus I am very interested is observations of people messing up. The answer may be that these are "once in a career" occurrences.

If you have a death grip on the gun while you are racking the slide, causing all of your fingers to tense up, then you are doing it wrong or need a different gun.

Keeping your finger off the trigger doesn't just mean floating above it in the general vicinity, it means outside and above of the trigger guard.

If you are concerned about your finger slipping off the frame while you rack the slide you could put a piece of skateboard grip tape on the frame above & outside of the trigger guard. But even still, if you find yourself applying pressure with your finger as you rack the slide that is a problem you should resolve - possibly by finding a different method/posture which allows you to rack the slide easily and comfortably.
 
I think there is a useful distinction to be made between two kinds of unintentional discharges. I think "negligent" and "accidental" are the wrong words, but I'm not sure what to call them. Perhaps "forgivable sins" and "unforgivable sins"? Let's try that.

"Forgivable sins" are the ones where your NES buddies will say that "it can happen to the best of us—glad you're ok." Putting your finger on the trigger when you're not supposed to is in that category. Even very well-trained people do it frequently when they're under stress. And I know that I can do it too: I was once caught by an instructor with my finger inside the trigger guard while reloading. I was shameful as a scolded puppy and promised myself to be more careful, but I know that it can happen again. Failing to check that the gun is unloaded is another such "forgivable sin." It helps to be careful and pay attention. It helps to work it into your routine. But good people still forget sometimes. Failure of well-maintained guns, though rare, also falls in to this category.

"Unforgivable sins" are the ones where NESers say that "he was a moron and deserved to die—and he was probably a cop." The typical example is the guy who points his gun at his friend or dog to dry fire. Once you have identified a few safe directions in your house, you know to only point the gun there when you dry fire. Pointing it somewhere else is not an honest mistake that just happens. If you point it somewhere else, you're not just forgetting a step in your routine: you are doing something you have never done before and promised yourself never to do. You have to willfully ignore the safety rule you set for yourself.

The trick, of course, is to organize your gun handling so that a sin of the first type always has to be combined with a sin of the second kind in order for someone to get hurt. Being really strict about safe direction goes a long way. Insist on a safe backstop when loading and unloading, even though you're trying really hard to keep your finger off the trigger. Insist on a safe backstop when you dry fire, even though you're trying really hard to remember to check that the gun is unloaded, and even though it is fun to wander around the house and shoot all the light switches and mirrors.

One situation that I don't have a good solution for is holstering. Some NDs happen when the trigger gets caugh in clothing, folded in holster material, or a finger while holstering. Sure, you can try to be careful to keep clothing out of the way, inspect your holster, move your leg the other way, and so on, but these are all things that it's possible to screw up without being a moron that deserves to die. Always removing the holster before holstering isn't practical when practicing. (But if you can leave the gun loaded holstered on days you are not practicing, you reduce the exposure. If the gun stays holstered from the safe to the belt and back, not much can go wrong.)

Too complicated, overthought. Developing good habits avoids NDs. Lot easier than all of this. Rule 1, 2, and habits regarding chamber status; and never, ever assuming anything is unloaded, unless you just checked it 3 times 5 seconds ago and it didn't leave your hands. Done.

-Mike
 
I appreciate the safety comments and understand that it's likely 99% handler error. Given the couple of media instances where the person claims it happened while clearing the handgun, it makes me wonder if there is an inherent "sensitivity" for errors with semi-autos in the clearing process. Effectively, some variation of pulling the slide causing an unintended trigger pull if one's grip slips or if a slip partway into the clear causing a discharge. "Design" should make these non-issues if handled properly. But reality has its own rules, thus I am very interested is observations of people messing up. The answer may be that these are "once in a career" occurrences.

If any finger goes inside the trigger guard while you're manipulating the slide, you're doing it wrong. Sounds like somebody who hasn't developed the hand strength required to operate a semi auto, poor technique, or both.

On a side note, there are other instances of some firearms not requiring a trigger pull. Read about some people who have learned how to "bump fire" their semi-auto rifles thereby making them behave like full auto. This is one example of reality not being fully compliant with design.

This sounds like you've heard the term "bump fire" without actually researching what it is.
 
Given the couple of media instances where the person claims it happened while clearing the handgun, it makes me wonder if there is an inherent "sensitivity" for errors with semi-autos in the clearing process. Effectively, some variation of pulling the slide causing an unintended trigger pull if one's grip slips or if a slip partway into the clear causing a discharge.

Huh?

The only way the trigger gets pulled is if 1) you have your finger on the trigger and 2) you pull it. Rule number 1: keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

Some guns (e.g., Glocks) require you to pull the trigger to field strip the gun. Thus you need to be sure to clear the gun prior to starting to field strip. You need to do that with any semi-automatic gun, though, so it isn't a big deal. People who have shot themselves while clearing a Glock not only didn't clear it properly, they also managed to point it at themselves while pulling the trigger -- that takes a special kind of stupid.

"Design" should make these non-issues if handled properly.

It isn't a design issue. It is a fundamental gun handling issue.

The answer may be that these are "once in a career" occurrences.

It doesn't have to be. If you dedicate yourself to safety, you don't have to have an ND. If you don't dedicate yourself to safety, you can have more than one. It is your choice.

On a side note, there are other instances of some firearms not requiring a trigger pull. Read about some people who have learned how to "bump fire" their semi-auto rifles thereby making them behave like full auto. This is one example of reality not being fully compliant with design.

You don't understand what bump fire means.
 
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Not impossible. I had a small semi-auto 22 pistol, with the slide open, inserted shell in the chamber, and released the slide forward, and the round fired. I looked at the shell, there was no apparent strike on the rim of it, I figured it was just enough of the forward force of the extractor hitting the rim of the shell that set it off, my finger was not on the trigger. Rare, but it's possible.

I'd say that is an improper way to load a rimfire round.
 
...there have been many incidences in the media of semi-auto handguns inadvertently discharging - the KY legislator unloading her handgun at her office; an officer shooting himself in the leg while giving a firearm safety lecture; the recent firearms instructor who shot his hand while "unloading" his handgun; etc. I cannot recall any similar incidents involving revolvers...

"...the trial judge found that G was negligent in aiming his weapon with his finger on the trigger while running and that this negligence was the direct cause of the victim’s death..."
 
It's negligent discharge. Call it what it is. Accidental discharge shifts blame to the firearm. It's the user

If its the firearms it's mechanical failure.

You ever have to send a brand new firearm back to the manufacturer? Sorry, but NEITHER of my instances were negligent discharges.
 
Just to be clear, I'm not having any of these issues. Just trying to assess risks vs design, especially when I factor in other people, like taking friends and family to the range.

With bump fire - yeah, it's been a while. I knew you pulled the trigger once. The rest of the shots being unintended design / handling consequences while holding down the trigger. Not the same as ND but still an example of a firearm operating other than intended by design. That was the point I was trying to lay out there.

Lots of good feedback. Many thanks to all.
 
OP - I went through the same thought process recently. For a long time I was more comfortable with revolvers and concerned with a semi-auto accidentally (and I do mean accidentally) discharging. Then I realized that an unforeseeable mechanical failure on a gun that's cared for is extremely unlikely. Keep the gun in good running order and don't stick your finger where it doesn't belong and you'll be fine. It's simply a matter of developing more confidence.
 
I knew you pulled the trigger once. The rest of the shots being unintended design / handling consequences while holding down the trigger. Not the same as ND but still an example of a firearm operating other than intended by design. That was the point I was trying to lay out there.

You're pulling the trigger once for each discharge of the firearm, using the recoil to move it and reset the trigger. You're operating it exactly as designed; one pull equals one shot.

I still don't understand what bump firing has to do with this discussion?
 
I forgot, but I just had to replace the trigger in my M&P 15-22. Shooting a couple weeks ago and I thought it doubled. When I checked it out, the disconnector was not holding the hammer on the reset.

This is a factory trigger on the Performance Center 15-22 with about 3500 rounds through the gun.

Rather than deal with S&W, I put a RRA two stage varmint trigger in the gun.

Took it out Saturday to check operation, and all was good.

So.......you were at the range.....pointing a rifle at a target.....and therefore intentionally pulled the trigger......and it doubled. You recognized the "double" and fixed your gun. I don't think there is anyone here that would call that negligent or even a damn accident. Responsible gun ownership is what I would call that. I believe we are talking about negligent discharges here......you know......when the gun goes off and you didn't intend it to.

However......you can lead this into my case for negligence in an equipment malfunction.........what if you recognized the "double" ......and said.....meh......**** it..........just a fluke. And the next time you were at the range it went off by accident and injured someone.......that would be a negligent discharge......even if it was a malfunction that caused the rifle to fire.

See the difference?

Don't be so hard on yourself :)
 
any really dirty .22 handgun or rifle with a gummy jammed firing pin will fire when bolt is sent fwd.
bolt action or semi. my cousin was next to me at an indoor range with his high std trophy. released the bolt and the mag emptied itself.
lucky it was a bull barrel and target ammo or he would of peppered the ceiling.
looked like it hadn't been cleaned in yrs. .22 lube,powder,primer leave a dirty residue in there over time.
always treat a firearm as loaded and point in a safe direction.
 
I'd like to hear others' personal experiences on the topic. My own experiences are rather limited.

I've never had a problem with any single-action revolver, double-action revolver, single-action semi-auto, double-action semi-auto, nor single/double-action semi-auto.

Maybe get a smaller revolver?
 
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