Handgun grip: straight-thumbs vs. crossed-thumbs

[MJM]

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[MJM]

It depends on your hand size. I shoot my Model 66 the same as autos, but I have smallish hands. Craig Buckland (Team S&W shooter and IDPA national SSR champ) also shoots revo thumbs forward.

me too. awesome pix BTW

 

[jar]

The photo was taken by Yamil Sued. Here's the full set of photos from IDPA Indoor Nats: http://actionshootingpodcast.com/2010/02/26/smith-wesson-idpa-indoor-nationals/

 

[Jose]

It depends on your hand size. I shoot my Model 66 the same as autos, but I have smallish hands. Craig Buckland (Team S&W shooter and IDPA national SSR champ) also shoots revo thumbs forward.

I've tried both ways and found two advantages to Jerry's grip over Craig's.

1) I can apply a lot more force to the grip panels with my thumb down by the speedloader relief and

2) The cylinder release does not chew the crap out of the web of my hand.

Shooting like Craig leaves me with a bloody hand as the cylinder release repeatedly slams into the web between the thumb and index fingers.

Another problem I see with Craig's grip is that his support side thumb is awfully close to the cylinder gap. Not an issue with .38 Specials, but hotter rounds will create a problem.

 

[M1911]

Another problem I see with Craig's grip is that his support side thumb is awfully close to the cylinder gap. Not an issue with .38 Specials, but hotter rounds will create a problem.

I seem to remember a picture of a fellow's thumb who used a thumb-forward grip on a S&W 460. The result was gruesome.

 

[Jose]

I seem to remember a picture of a fellow's thumb who used a thumb-forward grip on a S&W 460. The result was gruesome.

Yep, that's what I was thinking of. I only go up to .44 Magnum, but my thumb is going nowhere near there.

 

[stinx]

we teach thumbs forward, but we also have weapon mounted lights so thumbs forward makes accesssing the activation switch very easy

 

[M1911]

Warning: the picture at this link is pretty gruesome: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2313371/posts

 

[lupis42]

Yep, that's what I was thinking of. I only go up to .44 Magnum, but my thumb is going nowhere near there.

I've seen the powder burns that come from 44 magnum and grip that's too close to the cylinder gap. It's NOT a happy thing. Fortunately, no permanent damage was done, and nobody who saw it will ever do that again.

 

[M1911]

I've seen the powder burns that come from 44 magnum and grip that's too close to the cylinder gap. It's NOT a happy thing. Fortunately, no permanent damage was done, and nobody who saw it will ever do that again.

The fellow with the 460 didn't just get powder burns. The gases severed part of his thumb.

 

[lupis42]

The fellow with the 460 didn't just get powder burns. The gases severed part of his thumb.

I saw that. I also saw what Mythbusters did with a 500 S&W Magnum. I'm just pointing out that even for those of us not shooting actual cannons, thumbs forward on a revolver can end pretty badly.

 

[M1911]

I'm just pointing out that even for those of us not shooting actual cannons, thumbs forward on a revolver can end pretty badly.

Agreed.

 

[Keystone]

I saw that. I also saw what Mythbusters did with a 500 S&W Magnum. I'm just pointing out that even for those of us not shooting actual cannons, thumbs forward on a revolver can end pretty badly.

After taking the GOAL Basic Pistol class, and watching Jon torch a piece of paper with the flash around the cylinder of a measly .38, there is no way my fingers are going anywhere near that gap, which is the reason I switched to thumbs crossed for revos.

Also, for some reason the ergonomics on the different shaped guns just sort of drop my hands into place, there, it's not quite comfortable to do thumbs forward on a wheel gun.

 

[drew]

On a semi-auto, thumbs straight forward, revolver their crossed. When you shoot a semi-auto, you wont have to worry about slide-lock if you practice proper mag changes!!!!

~Drew

 

[Jose]

When you shoot a semi-auto, you wont have to worry about slide-lock if you practice proper mag changes!!!!

What's a proper mag change?

 

[M1911]

What's a proper mag change?

I'm guessing that he believes in round counting, and thus changing magazines before the slide locks back.

I'm low-speed, high drag. If the SHTF, the last thing I'm going to try to do is count my rounds. YMMV.

 

[TY43215]

After taking the GOAL Basic Pistol class, and watching Jon torch a piece of paper with the flash around the cylinder of a measly .38, there is no way my fingers are going anywhere near that gap, which is the reason I switched to thumbs crossed for revos.

You get used to it after a while. The 460 pic is an improper grip for any firearm. Shooter was trying to compensate for recoil by placing his/her girly hands too far forward. Like many things in this sport, improper practices will eventually bite you

 

[DoubleDoeHoe]

In the two classes I took at Sig Academy, the number one gun malfunction was the slide not locking back on an empty mag and it always involved a Sig pistol with that very poorly placed slide lock lever. One instructor actually was trying to get some of us to drop thumbs forward as it seems to make this Sig-specific problem worse. I just switched to a Glock.

Eco - I just picked up a P239 .40 and I took it out Sunday night for a run and I kept having the same problem. I cleaned up went home and look into it. Found out that it's common for people with bigger hands (not huge) to be unknowingly holding down the slide release with your thumb, it's exactly what's going on with me.

Funny thing is though I went to MFL and shot a P229 before I stumbled upon the P239 and with the P229 I did not experience this problem. Then again if I was a left-handed shooter I wouldn't have the problem either. I like the Sig though. On the contrary you can release the slide without loosing your overall grip. But if it doesn't lock-back anyway what's the point.

 

[economist]

Eco - I just picked up a P239 .40 and I took it out Sunday night for a run and I kept having the same problem. I cleaned up went home and look into it. Found out that it's common for people with bigger hands (not huge) to be unknowingly holding down the slide release with your thumb, it's exactly what's going on with me.

Funny thing is though I went to MFL and shot a P229 before I stumbled upon the P239 and with the P229 I did not experience this problem. Then again if I was a left-handed shooter I wouldn't have the problem either. I like the Sig though. On the contrary you can release the slide without loosing your overall grip. But if it doesn't lock-back anyway what's the point.

Frustrating, isn't it? Like a lot of people, I use my off hand to release the slide, never touching the slide lock except when locking the action open for some reason. Having it under my dominant hand thumb is like having the trunk release button on my car mounted on the steering wheel. The 1911 gets this right, putting that lever far forward and out of the way. Others, like Glock, have the slide lock farther back, but manage to recess it or otherwise keep it from being tripped by the thumb.

 

[Jose]

One big reason I sold my 226 is the retarded design of the slide release lever.

I cannot understand the fanboy following those pistols have when they have such a glaring design issue that makes them virtually incompatible with the most effective handgun grip yet devised.

 

[M1911]

It is not a surprise to me that at SIG Academy they teach the overhand method of releasing the slide during an emergency reload -- with that small a slide stop in that stupid location, I'd do the same.

 

[TheRoland]

I cannot understand the fanboy following those pistols have when they have such a glaring design issue that makes them virtually incompatible with the most effective handgun grip yet devised.

With a little tweaking of grip size (which in turn moves the postion of the thumb), it's totally possible to shoot Sigs thumb-forward. It took replacement grips and some experimentation, though, for me to get it. I had no issue with the slide failing to lock back, but the amount of tinkering to make this happen was not zero.

It is not a surprise to me that at SIG Academy they teach the overhand method of releasing the slide during an emergency reload -- with that small a slide stop in that stupid location, I'd do the same.

I think that's a dumb thing to teach, and kills the one good thing they have going with that lever. The one advantage to the slide-stop location is that it can be actuated with only a few millimeters of movement. You can reload simply by dropping the magazine, moving your thumb to the lever, and slamming a new one in.

However, I guess if you can't find a grip size that places your thumb off of the lever, you're SOL. Which is probably why they teach it.

 

[M1911]

I think that's a dumb thing to teach, and kills the one good thing they have going with that lever. The one advantage to the slide-stop location is that it can be actuated with only a few millimeters of movement. You can reload simply by dropping the magazine, moving your thumb to the lever, and slamming a new one in.

The disadvantage of using your right thumb on the slide stop is that you break your strong hand grip while doing so.

 

[TheRoland]

The disadvantage of using your right thumb on the slide stop is that you break your strong hand grip while doing so.

Good point. On the huge grip of the Sig and with my hands, though, I've already broken my strong-hand grip to get at the magazine release, and the slide release is on the way back.

 

[drgrant]

One big reason I sold my 226 is the retarded design of the slide release lever.

I cannot understand the fanboy following those pistols have when they have such a glaring design issue that makes them virtually incompatible with the most effective handgun grip yet devised.

It depends on how big your hands are.

Holding a Sig P series never causes me problems.... I just alter my grip ever so slightly.

People with huge hands, or left handed shooters, are basically screwed, though, especially on guns like the P220 which basically makes you want to rest your thumb right on the slide lock.

BTW, nearly every major handgun has some weird fanboy following. You name it, and there is some mindless follower. That doesn't, of course, change any of the real plusses or minuses of a given platform.

-Mike

 

[luceri]

I use an awkward method where my center-finger on my shooting hand clamps the front of the firearm in front of the trigger guard. I have awkwardly long fingers though; my g21 carry is a little small for my hands even. It helps me reduce the kick on large calibers like the .45ACP and stay on target for multiple fast shots. I'm more accurate with it like this with my other hand a slightly modified straight thumb. This being said, I'm definitely no competition-grade handgun shooter, and if I don't do this with my hands my fingers are MEGA cramped.

I've never held a S&W 500 or any revolver aside from a Colt Python .357 Magnum my father left me in his will. I never shoot the .357 ever -- expensive and it just doesn't fit my hand too well. I should sell it and get a 92FS or something similar I've been wanting.

 

[Jose]

I've never held a S&W 500 or any revolver aside from a Colt Python .357 Magnum my father left me in his will. I never shoot the .357 ever -- expensive and it just doesn't fit my hand too well. I should sell it and get a 92FS or something similar I've been wanting.

IDK about you, but I would never pawn off a family heirloom that also happens to be a highly sought after exaple of the gunmaker's art from an era that will not return just to fund a pedestrian, common pistol.

 

[lupis42]

I've never held a S&W 500 or any revolver aside from a Colt Python .357 Magnum my father left me in his will. I never shoot the .357 ever -- expensive and it just doesn't fit my hand too well. I should sell it and get a 92FS or something similar I've been wanting.

I will happily take it off you for a 92FS.

IDK about you, but I would never pawn off a family heirloom that also happens to be a highly sought after exaple of the gunmaker's art from an era that will not return just to fund a pedestrian, common pistol.

Jose is right. But if you still want to swap, let me know!

 

[M1911]

IDK about you, but I would never pawn off a family heirloom that also happens to be a highly sought after exaple of the gunmaker's art from an era that will not return just to fund a pedestrian, common pistol.

This.