thanks for the reply its great someone read it.The load iam looking for is 3 inch magnum no 1 buck ounce and 7/8 or 2 oz..I see a unreliable recipe from a person talking on a duck hunting page of 38 grains for the ounce and 7/8 loads..just seeing who else might be in the loop of this.yes I use short wads for in can get the 21 no 1 buck in the 3 inch shells that are 40 grains each.