Here we go; improper storage...

[allen-1]

Parents push for gun safety laws following teen's death

The headline is "Parents push for gun safety". The article says that their child shot himself in the head with a gun at a friend's house. They want to change the law to read that UNLOADED guns must be stored properly.

Funnily enough, here's a quote from the article:
The handgun that was used was stored in a master bedroom closed. The gun had a lock on it and bullets were also stored nearby.

Right now there are no state laws requiring unloaded firearms to be stored properly, even if the ammunition is nearby.

So, the gun was unloaded and trigger locked and that's not good enough. I'm sorry the kid's dead. But it would appear to me that the gun was properly stored.

Teenagers routinely break into things they're not supposed to. I broke into my parents' liquor cabinet, I drove their cars long before I had a license.

But it's GUNS - so pass another law...

 

[one-eyed Jack]

And they come up with this shit WITHOUT reading the approx. 700 pages of fed and state gun laws. Jack.

 

[dcmdon]

The CT safe storage law is actually very reasonable. Basically it says that if a kid hurts or kills themselv with a loaded gun. You are in trouble.
Reasonable to me.

All they are trying to do is change it so that if the kid finds an unloaded gun, loads it and kills himself, you are in trouble.

You are all going to scream, but that's also reasonable.

You want to own guns. You have a responsibility to secure them as necessary given your situation with kids. NO kids - great, gun in the nightstand drawer is legal.

Kids. Gun in the nightstand drawer is still legal. No getting arrested if the cops see a gun when they come in to help you with a heartt attack.

Kid kills himself with your gun in your night stand, you are screwed. As you should be.

 

[pastera]

How about if a teen kills themselves with a gun that you put a trigger lock on it's not your fault unless you handed it to them so that they could do so!

It wasn't a toddler - those teenagers knew what they were doing.

 

[Nick Leduc]

The CT safe storage law is actually very reasonable. Basically it says that if a kid hurts or kills themselv with a loaded gun. You are in trouble.
Reasonable to me.

All they are trying to do is change it so that if the kid finds an unloaded gun, loads it and kills himself, you are in trouble.

You are all going to scream, but that's also reasonable.

You want to own guns. You have a responsibility to secure them as necessary given your situation with kids. NO kids - great, gun in the nightstand drawer is legal.

Kids. Gun in the nightstand drawer is still legal. No getting arrested if the cops see a gun when they come in to help you with a heartt attack.

Kid kills himself with your gun in your night stand, you are screwed. As you should be.

Its dangerous when you start labeling things "reasonable". It makes it seem that someone against a particular law is being unreasonable.

 

[allen-1]

The CT safe storage law is actually very reasonable. Basically it says that if a kid hurts or kills themselv with a loaded gun. You are in trouble.
Reasonable to me.

All they are trying to do is change it so that if the kid finds an unloaded gun, loads it and kills himself, you are in trouble.

You are all going to scream, but that's also reasonable.

You want to own guns. You have a responsibility to secure them as necessary given your situation with kids. NO kids - great, gun in the nightstand drawer is legal.

Kids. Gun in the nightstand drawer is still legal. No getting arrested if the cops see a gun when they come in to help you with a heartt attack.

Kid kills himself with your gun in your night stand, you are screwed. As you should be.

I read the articles about this tragedy. The ones I read said that the pistol was in the adults bedroom, unloaded, trigger locked. Friend came over, the two teenagers unlocked it, loaded it, and then friend shot himself in the head with it. Now it's the adult's fault for having an improperly stored unloaded firearm?

I'm not so sure about that.

My three year old granddaughter is visiting this weekend. Consequently, the handgun that I normally keep on the nightstand while I sleep is in a micro-vault instead. That's just "common sense", and I don't need a law to tell me to do that. She's too young to have a loaded unsecured firearm around where she can get to it.

On the other hand, I finished building an AR last night, and it's sitting on the work bench in my garage. The loaded magazines for it are stowed away, and after I grease it and wipe it down today, it'll go in the safe with the others.

 

[robjax]

this could have saved that boy's life.


On Tuesday, President of the Connecticut Citizens Defense League Scott Wilson released a statement saying "We would first like to extend our heartfelt sympathies to the parents of Ethan Song. As an organization that understands the importance of gun safety, we feel that along with securing firearms there should be an effort by all parents to make sure that their children understand that firearms can be deadly if handled improperly. There are tremendous programs out there that teach firearm safety to children of all ages; often at little or no cost. Along with the securing of firearms in a responsible manner, proper firearms education is imperative to the safety of children. Even if parents don’t own firearms themselves, children should still be taught what to do if they encounter a firearm without parental supervision. We thank Ethan’s father for acknowledging that there may be times that gun owners may also need to gain access to their firearms immediately to stop home invasions or protect loved ones.”

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Parents push for gun safety laws following teen's death

The headline is "Parents push for gun safety". The article says that their child shot himself in the head with a gun at a friend's house. They want to change the law to read that UNLOADED guns must be stored properly.

Funnily enough, here's a quote from the article:
The handgun that was used was stored in a master bedroom closed. The gun had a lock on it and bullets were also stored nearby.

Right now there are no state laws requiring unloaded firearms to be stored properly, even if the ammunition is nearby.

So, the gun was unloaded and trigger locked and that's not good enough. I'm sorry the kid's dead. But it would appear to me that the gun was properly stored.

Teenagers routinely break into things they're not supposed to. I broke into my parents' liquor cabinet, I drove their cars long before I had a license.

But it's GUNS - so pass another law...

They should be told to go pound sand.
District of Columbia v. Heller (PDF), the United States Supreme Court issued its first decision since 1939 interpreting the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Court ruled that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution confers an individual right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes such as self-defense. It also ruled that two District of Columbia provisions, one that banned handguns and one that required lawful firearms in the home to be disassembled or trigger-locked, violate this right.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

The CT safe storage law is actually very reasonable. Basically it says that if a kid hurts or kills themselv with a loaded gun. You are in trouble.
Reasonable to me.

All they are trying to do is change it so that if the kid finds an unloaded gun, loads it and kills himself, you are in trouble.

You are all going to scream, but that's also reasonable.

You want to own guns. You have a responsibility to secure them as necessary given your situation.

Did you miss the bit where the weapon had a lock on it, which the "kid" broke? Mind you a "kid" who could legally drive a car.

As for the "...no state laws requiring unloaded firearms to be stored properly, even if the ammunition is nearby" bit in the article, well, this crap was covered 11 years ago with Heller, and besides who is the author to suggest what is "proper". DCMDON, your reasonable is someone else's unreasonable. "It should be in a locked container!" OK what about a locked room? Or a locked house? Or a locked closet? In addition to the trigger lock that was broken off, of course. Perhaps they should have taken it down to the power plant and submerged it in the heavy water? Or maybe adults and near-adults will gain access to whatever they want, if they're inspired to do so, regardless of what you perceive to be irresponsibility in locking and hiding the damn thing to begin with.

 

[robjax]

Did you miss the bit where the weapon had a lock on it, which the "kid" broke? Mind you a "kid" who could legally drive a car.

As for the "...no state laws requiring unloaded firearms to be stored properly, even if the ammunition is nearby" bit in the article, well, this crap was covered 11 years ago with Heller, and besides who is the author to suggest what is "proper". DCMDON, your reasonable is someone else's unreasonable. "It should be in a locked container!" OK what about a locked room? Or a locked house? Or a locked closet? In addition to the trigger lock that was broken off, of course. Perhaps they should have taken it down to the power plant and submerged it in the heavy water? Or maybe adults and near-adults will gain access to whatever they want, if they're inspired to do so, regardless of what you perceive to be irresponsibility in locking and hiding the damn thing to begin with.

I didn't miss the part where the gun had a lock on it. I did miss the part that said the kid broke the lock....my assumption was that the kid that lived there knew how to unlock the gun and probably did....

Is the kid saying the other boy broke the lock?

 

[Chevy 2 65]

The CT safe storage law is actually very reasonable. Basically it says that if a kid hurts or kills themselv with a loaded gun. You are in trouble.
Reasonable to me.

All they are trying to do is change it so that if the kid finds an unloaded gun, loads it and kills himself, you are in trouble.

You are all going to scream, but that's also reasonable.

You want to own guns. You have a responsibility to secure them as necessary given your situation with kids. NO kids - great, gun in the nightstand drawer is legal.

Kids. Gun in the nightstand drawer is still legal. No getting arrested if the cops see a gun when they come in to help you with a heartt attack.

Kid kills himself with your gun in your night stand, you are screwed. As you should be.

How about pills? How about cars in the garage? how about swimming pools? how about knifes? razors? screwdrivers? hammers? etc.

 

[robjax]

Police Chief Addresses Report About Ethan Song's Death: UPDATE


GUILFORD, CT — Guilford's Police Chief responded in length to a Hartford Courant report Wednesday that Ethan Song, 15, may have been accidentally killed with a gun last week while playing a form of Russian roulette. Ethan and another juvenile were inside a Seaside Avenue home alone last week and police are investigating whether they were playing with the gun, which they didn't think was loaded, the Courant exclusively reports.

The home was rented by private investigator Daniel Markle, the son of former New Haven State's Attorney Arnold Markle, the Courant reports. The Courant makes it clear that police don't believe the boys knew that there was a bullet in the gun chamber. Police have released very few details about Ethan's death, except to say he suffered a gunshot wound inside a house.

 

[robjax]

Juvenile Charged In Connection With Ethan Song's Death: Police


Investigatory Results via the State's Attorney's Office:

"Mr. Song's death was a tragic event in that he accidentally shot himself in the head with a .357 magnum handgun which was stored in a master bedroom closet at the location where he was shot. Mr. Song did not reside at this location and he was not related to the gun owner. This handgun was one of three which was owned by an adult male who resided at the home. On the date in question, it appears that all three weapons had been stored in a cardboard box inside of a large Tupperware container in this closet. Each weapon was secured with an operable gun lock. There is no evidence that the gun used was loaded at the time it was stored within the closet. However, ammunition for the gun was located within the same small cardboard box next to the weapon used, inside of the Tupperware container. It appears that this small cardboard box was hidden under some clothing in the larger Tupperware container. Subsequent investigation has established that the keys to the gunlocks on the three weapons were hidden in the same Tupperware container in a separate area hidden under other clothing.

An exhaustive review has determined that during the months prior January 31, 2018, juveniles had gained access to the adult male's weapons and played with them on several occasions. It appears that the weapons were returned to their original location after each access and there is no evidence that the gun owner knew that the guns had been retrieved by the juveniles. Rather, it appears that there was a deliberate attempt by the juveniles to withhold this information from the gun owner. There is no evidence that Mr. Song knew that the gun responsible for his death was loaded or that he had any role in loading it," the State's Attorney's report concludes.

 

[Tinkermatic]

So, I read the article yesterday and slept on my response.

While it’s certainly tragic that a teenager lost their life, this is another feel good law situation.

The fact that the gun was in a bedroom that was closed, had a lock on it and was unloaded, is very telling. This shows a deliberate process of needing to unlock and load the gun to make it ready. If they can unlock the gun, they can unlock a safe. I know, because when I was a teenager I stole the keys to my gunsafe and ammo safe and had copies made so I could go shoot in the woods after school before my mom came home.

Had the kids taken the keys to a car and crashed it and died, or run a friend over, would they be trying to pass stricter car key laws? Or would most people think that they knew what they were doing and they f*ed up?

It’s a wonder any of us survived with metal playground equipment, guns around, and having taken cars for joyrides at 14.

 

[Tinkermatic]

Juvenile Charged In Connection With Ethan Song's Death: Police


Investigatory Results via the State's Attorney's Office:

"Mr. Song's death was a tragic event in that he accidentally shot himself in the head with a .357 magnum handgun which was stored in a master bedroom closet at the location where he was shot. Mr. Song did not reside at this location and he was not related to the gun owner. This handgun was one of three which was owned by an adult male who resided at the home. On the date in question, it appears that all three weapons had been stored in a cardboard box inside of a large Tupperware container in this closet. Each weapon was secured with an operable gun lock. There is no evidence that the gun used was loaded at the time it was stored within the closet. However, ammunition for the gun was located within the same small cardboard box next to the weapon used, inside of the Tupperware container. It appears that this small cardboard box was hidden under some clothing in the larger Tupperware container. Subsequent investigation has established that the keys to the gunlocks on the three weapons were hidden in the same Tupperware container in a separate area hidden under other clothing.

An exhaustive review has determined that during the months prior January 31, 2018, juveniles had gained access to the adult male's weapons and played with them on several occasions. It appears that the weapons were returned to their original location after each access and there is no evidence that the gun owner knew that the guns had been retrieved by the juveniles. Rather, it appears that there was a deliberate attempt by the juveniles to withhold this information from the gun owner. There is no evidence that Mr. Song knew that the gun responsible for his death was loaded or that he had any role in loading it," the State's Attorney's report concludes.

So did the friend load it or is the article wrong in ststing it was unloaded?

It was either loaded, or someone loaded it. It’s a small detail but it makes a huge difference.

Edit- So if they’re charging him with second degree manslaughter, he loaded the gun and handed it to his friend? Yes no?

 

[robjax]

So did the friend load it or is the article wrong in ststing it was unloaded?

It was either losded, or someone loaded it. It’s a small detail but it makes a huge difference.

Exactly right. They say there is not evidence the gun was loaded prior too the boys accessing the gun. Then they say that the boys probably didn't know the gun was loaded.

.357 mag I am assuming with the Russian roulette allegation that this is a revolver. So many ways to see if the gun is loaded even without opening the cylinder. So for the assertion that the boys might not have known the gun was loaded I find it a stretch. Plus they accessed the guns in the past.

But if you look in my post...12 "The home was rented by private investigator Daniel Markle, the son of former New Haven State's Attorney Arnold Markle,"

So are they throwing the kid under the bus on this one?

Also what I find strange is this....

"Subsequent investigation has established that the keys to the gunlocks on the three weapons were hidden in the same Tupperware container in a separate area hidden under other clothing."

I am an anti-storage guy, but if you are securing the guns then how is this secure?

 

[beaker]

Typical. I have suffered a tragedy, so I am empowered to make the entire world change because of my moral righteousness.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

I didn't miss the part where the gun had a lock on it. I did miss the part that said the kid broke the lock....my assumption was that the kid that lived there knew how to unlock the gun and probably did....

Is the kid saying the other boy broke the lock?

Read the bigger writeups in the NHR, Courant, and BS. It's difficult to parse the nutjob mothers obviously false statements, the surviving kids statements, and his fathers statements, see through all the media nonsense, and decipher the chief of polices inane assertions... there was a key - that doesn't mean that he didn't break the lock; it wasn't his property and he did not have permission (the son, or the dead kid) so he broke the lock or the son broke the lock.

The father says the key was stored inside of a jacket pocket, and that the kids would have had to jimmy the closet door lock and then search through his clothing for the key. The son says his now-dead friend said he found the key in the box with the guns, but that he doesn't know if it was loaded already or not because he wasn't with him initially. Some of the media reports say the key was inside an article of clothing, inside of the box. The police say they believe the kids had accessed the guns without the fathers knowledge several times before, but had made a point to hide it from him, and the father might not have known they knew about them. The chief believes it's common for one round to become stuck in a revolver without the owner noticing, and that's probably what happened - it's pretty hard to get that last one out!

The head of the local anti-gun group said teaching two of his sons friends (both 15 years old) to shoot BB guns without asking their parents was "ridiculously negligent" and "morally reprehensible" and lacked "basic human decency". The nutbag mother says it wasn't BB guns at all, but handguns - in a suburban back yard - that there were pictures but she can't produce them, that she didn't know about it until after her son died but does know about it now, that the gun-owners son was sleeping with the handgun under his bed for months (but also is totally innocent and shouldn't feel bad; it's his fathers corporation which is really at fault), and that her own now-dead son had been taught about guns by the father for months... but she's also suing him for not teaching her son about guns, and for giving him access to one.

This is the back yard shooting range by the way, the tapered one in the middle:


Sounds like the kid slipped a single bullet in the gun and shot himself in the head, teenagers fib under stress, and women are crazy.

 

[robjax]

Read the bigger writeups in the NHR, Courant, and BS. It's difficult to parse the nutjob mothers obviously false statements, the surviving kids statements, and his fathers statements, see through all the media nonsense, and decipher the chief of polices inane assertions... there was a key - that doesn't mean that he didn't break the lock; it wasn't his property and he did not have permission (the son, or the dead kid) so he broke the lock or the son broke the lock.

The father says the key was stored inside of a jacket pocket, and that the kids would have had to jimmy the closet door lock and then search through his clothing for the key. The son says his now-dead friend said he found the key in the box with the guns, but that he doesn't know if it was loaded already or not because he wasn't with him initially. Some of the media reports say the key was inside an article of clothing, inside of the box. The police say they believe the kids had accessed the guns without the fathers knowledge several times before, but had made a point to hide it from him, and the father might not have known they knew about them. The chief believes it's common for one round to become stuck in a revolver without the owner noticing, and that's probably what happened - it's pretty hard to get that last one out!

The head of the local anti-gun group said teaching two of his sons friends (both 15 years old) to shoot BB guns without asking their parents was "ridiculously negligent" and "morally reprehensible" and lacked "basic human decency". The nutbag mother says it wasn't BB guns at all, but handguns - in a suburban back yard - that there were pictures but she can't produce them, that she didn't know about it until after her son died but does know about it now, that the gun-owners son was sleeping with the handgun under his bed for months (but also is totally innocent and shouldn't feel bad; it's his fathers corporation which is really at fault), and that her own now-dead son had been taught about guns by the father for months... but she's also suing him for not teaching her son about guns, and for giving him access to one.

This is the back yard shooting range by the way, the tapered one in the middle:
View attachment 258416

Sounds like the kid slipped a single bullet in the gun and shot himself in the head, teenagers fib under stress, and women are crazy.

I originally thought suicide. Even if it was this would not fit their anti-gun agenda. So that will never come up in the investigation. They'd rather send a 15 year old to jail until he is 21.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Exactly right. They say there is not evidence the gun was loaded prior too the boys accessing the gun. Then they say that the boys probably didn't know the gun was loaded.

Early on the local CLEO was telling reporters how easy it is to miss that last round in a revolver, or how the last one tends to stick, etc... I like your theory a lot better.

But if you look in my post...12 "The home was rented by private investigator Daniel Markle, the son of former New Haven State's Attorney Arnold Markle,"

So are they throwing the kid under the bus on this one?

Hadn't considered that, at all.

Also what I find strange is this....

"Subsequent investigation has established that the keys to the gunlocks on the three weapons were hidden in the same Tupperware container in a separate area hidden under other clothing."

I am an anti-storage guy, but if you are securing the guns then how is this secure?

Agreed.

From the TTB statement the son and father had two different stories about where the key was, and the son said he was only going off what he was told by his friend - before the friend shot himself. I'd be interested to know what the "exhaustive review" was that determined they boys had played with the guns before; was it yelling at a 14 year old until he said "sure I showed him before" or...? Maybe the third kid from the BB gun lessons had something to say.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

I wonder if they found Juniors prints on the shell casing, or perhaps those of Mr. Russian Roulette himself? I'm guessing it was more than just the fathers, or he'd be charged.

Also if your kid is 15 and doesn't know not to point a gun at his head and pull the trigger that kind of seems like nature taking its course.

 

[robjax]

Early on the local CLEO was telling reporters how easy it is to miss that last round in a revolver, or how the last one tends to stick, etc... I like your theory a lot better.




Hadn't considered that, at all.




Agreed.

From the TTB statement the son and father had two different stories about where the key was, and the son said he was only going off what he was told by his friend - before the friend shot himself. I'd be interested to know what the "exhaustive review" was that determined they boys had played with the guns before; was it yelling at a 14 year old until he said "sure I showed him before" or...? Maybe the third kid from the BB gun lessons had something to say.

I'm sure all the questions have been answered. But we will never know the whole truth. I think they are just stringing events together in a way to sell what could be considered less than the truth to the public.

 

[xtry51]

You don't need a law punishing anyone regardless of how accessible the gun was. A kid who should have been taught firearm safety and responsibility shot himself. A dead child is plenty of punishment on top of the shunning this guy will now receive from the community.

You don't need government sticking its nose into everything.

 

[Tinkermatic]

I'm sure all the questions have been answered. But we will never know the whole truth. I think they are just stringing events together in a way to sell what could be considered less than the truth to the public.

This ^ x 1000

I'm no tin foiler, but there's just so many conflicting statements going on here.

 

[robjax]

This ^ x 1000

I'm no tin foiler, but there's just so many conflicting statements going on here.

yeah, I agree. They will wrap this up with a nice pretty bow to give to the anti crowd to push more anti-gun agenda items.

Short of this being a suicide gun safety classes could have helped here. If not a suicide, which we will never know anyway, these kids were obviously not thinking gun safety.

And I also find it difficult to believe that these two would be that ignorant about guns in that the parkland incident plagued the nation all summer long and into this school year.

So just another reason I would not take suicide off the table.

 

[dcmdon]

The thing about CT's improper storage law is that it only applies if a harm has already happened.

So really its kind of pointless. You could charge someone with negligent homicide if harm comes to a kid who finds a gun.

Its not like MA where if a cop sees an "improperly" stored firearm, they arrest you just based on that.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

.

 

[allen-1]

And the governor signed it into law about two weeks ago.

Firearms must be stored securely in a home that has minors in it, (loaded or unloaded).

Along with two other laws - no "ghost guns", and firearms left in vehicles must be in a safe, locked glove compartment or trunk.

Article here: CT lawmakers approve three new gun bills


And from the comment section, just to show you why having a "reasonable conversation" isn't really possible:

Well Educated Liberal May 24, 2019 8:21am

It is useless because the only law that will accomplish anything is an all out ban and confiscation of guns. Ban, confiscate and destroy all firearms, then arrest and lock up every single toothless, bloodthirsty neocon repuke gun owner. Life without parole. From the trailer to the jail cell. Good riddance! #Warren/Harris2020 #HillaryisMYPresident #I'mStillWithHer #neverdrumpf #resist #impeach #LockHimUp #FreedomFromReligion #BanAllGuns

 

[swatgig]

I'm confused: The gun was unloaded and locked. So they passed a law saying that unloaded guns must be locked. Why is this being touted as being in response to this shooting. It's like passing a law against drunk driving because a sober driver crashed.

 

[Fixxah]

Ignorant snowflake parents never taught their kids about guns. To find fault, here's a mirror lady.

We learned about guns in middle school in the mid 70's. My son knows about gun and knife safety and what to do if someone finds one or is playing with one. Hopefully he never has to deal with idiots like the kids in this story.

I have compassion fatigue and don't give a flying fvck any more.