Homeowner's Insurance and Guns: A suggestion

[Bob P]

Not sure if someone has posted on this elsewhere – I did a thread search and didn’t come up with anything so if this is old news I apologize.

Anyway, I work for an insurance company in MA. I did claims for way too many years, now I do training and consulting work.

I wanted to remind people that the standard, unendorsed Homeowner’s policy only provides $2,000 coverage for loss by theft of firearms. This includes guns AND ammo. Various extender or ‘plus’ endorsements can raise this limit to $5,000. Even worse, the newest version of the policy limits coverage to $500 raised to $1,000 by an extender endorsement

Most of the people here have more then one gun & that can kick you over that basic limit pretty quickly. Talk to your insurance agent and ask for a Firearms Floater. It’s extra coverage for your guns and equipment. The guns are listed individually & the policy either replaces them or pays replacement cost if a replacement can’t be secured. Coverage is very broad.

A good suggestion is to take photos of them as well and place the photos someplace secure – this documents ownership as well as the condition. A picture really is worth 1000 words when dealing with insurance adjusters.

 

[Dick]

Most of the people here have more then one gun & that can kick you over that basic limit pretty quickly. Talk to your insurance agent and ask for a Firearms Floater.

What's the approximate cost (per $1K of coverage, or however it's measured) of a Firearms Floater?

 

[Bob P]

Usually a minumm premium of $50 +/- and 1% beyond that (i.e. limits of $5k and less you pay minimum, over $5K you pay 1% of the limit. Depends on your carrier.

 

[jcr]

I guess the take away is to talk to an agent.

Otherwise what I've learned here is just confusting.

Is the standard policy coverage $5000 or $500?

Besides and "extender" (premium?) for a $500 policy that takes you to $1000, you can get a $5000 "floater" for approx $50?

Is the premium less if you have a big, honking safe?

If you've spent $1000+ on a safe, isn't it a waste to to spend $50 for (say) 20 years?

I'd be reluctant to give a list of guns to anyone -- even an insuance company. Am I correct that this includes s/n too?

Why, if the premium is paid, and there is a limit, would a prior list be required? Assuming that if you're robbed and filing a claim, that claim would include a police report -- and that with felony risk attached for filing a false report not requiring the prior list would seem to be a low risk for the company. I'd even be willing to have them require the pictures (in recognizably my home, etc) with the filing/police report.

 

[Bob P]

I guess the take away is to talk to an agent.

Otherwise what I've learned here is just confusting.

Is the standard policy coverage $5000 or $500?

Besides and "extender" (premium?) for a $500 policy that takes you to $1000, you can get a $5000 "floater" for approx $50?

Is the premium less if you have a big, honking safe?

If you've spent $1000+ on a safe, isn't it a waste to to spend $50 for (say) 20 years?

I'd be reluctant to give a list of guns to anyone -- even an insuance company. Am I correct that this includes s/n too?

Why, if the premium is paid, and there is a limit, would a prior list be required? Assuming that if you're robbed and filing a claim, that claim would include a police report -- and that with felony risk attached for filing a false report not requiring the prior list would seem to be a low risk for the company. I'd even be willing to have them require the pictures (in recognizably my home, etc) with the filing/police report.

The amount? Depends on your policy - the take away is READ YOUR POLICY. The most recent version of the standard Homeowners policy (they 'update' them every few years) provides $500 in coverage. You can add an endorsement that ups it to $2000 in coverage (along with a bunch of other stuff). If that's still not enough you can buy a 'floater'. The amount of coverage on the floater is whatever you decide to buy. If you've got $10,000 worth of guns, you buy $10,000 worth of coverage. The premium for the floater is a minimum of $50 or 1% of your coverage amount - whichever is larger.

Why take photos to prove condition? A happy little thing called 'depreciation'. If you've got a floater, it's not an issue but otherwise the insurance company is going to depreciate your stuff based on age. A photo showing that your M1 is actually in pristine condition because of all of the work you've done on it will simply make things easier FOR YOU. Do you get a discount for a safe? Not usually. Is it a waste if you've got a safe? Ever have your guns in your car? Don't want to give a list of your guns? Fine, don't buy the coverage. I'm not trying to sell anything here, I'm just suggesting that people actually read their insurance coverage so they know what they've got for coverage & can make informed choices that work for them. A lot of us have a lot of money invested in this hobby and your basic homeowners policy doesn't provide much coverage at all. I don't want anyone unplesantly surprised.

 

[dbhn]

Thanks for the tip.

While we are at, is there any other majors areas in the basic policies that we should take a look at? Anything that warrants most people to get upgraded and or get burned if they don't.

Sometimes with topics like insurance you just don't know what you don't know.

 

[Coyote33]

I wonder if they offer a better deal if you have a safe versus trigger locks or cable locks, and yet a better deal still if a fireproof safe. It works that way on car insurance with escalating levels of alarms and protections.


Doesn't the NRA or GOAL offer some coverage as well?

 

[Bob P]

Thanks for the tip.

While we are at, is there any other majors areas in the basic policies that we should take a look at? Anything that warrants most people to get upgraded and or get burned if they don't.

Sometimes with topics like insurance you just don't know what you don't know.

Jewlery. Same as with guns, you're limited to 2k loss by theft. If you or your spouse have a couple of nice pieces (and this includes watches) that gets eaten up pretty quick. Some policy versions cover even less then 2K.

Cash. Limited to $200 loss by theft. If you've got a coin collection, you need to put it on a floater. Ditto for Stamps.

Boats. Serious restrictions on what's covered. Includes Personal Watercraft like Jet Skis. No coverage for any with the big engines - you need a boat policy. Kayaks, canoes etc are OK. Bigger sailboats are not. Powerboats are not.

ATV - drive it off your property and it's not covered

Belong to a flying club but don't own a plane. Borrow the club's? Does their policy cover you, because your Homeowner's doesn't.

Property usually located off premisis - i.e. your stuff not at your home. Limits on coverage. Got expensive golf clubs you leave at a country club? get a floater.

 

[Bob P]

I wonder if they offer a better deal if you have a safe versus trigger locks or cable locks, and yet a better deal still if a fireproof safe. It works that way on car insurance with escalating levels of alarms and protections.


Doesn't the NRA or GOAL offer some coverage as well?

Depends on the company if they give you a credit but usually not. GOAL supplies AD&D coverage for injuries to yourself. Both offer access to insurance you can purchase for your guns and supplemental liability. BTW, the liability part of your policy DOES cover your liability exposures - except for intentional acts.

 

[bvet4dog]

i dont have insurance and i dont use it just... dont burn our house down or leave house unlock for some punk ass to walk in and take your stuff... plain and simple! being responsible, wont hurt us. just a lil brain with a good responsibility skill will lead us on very far.

i think of it it like this. some people get insurance because they can and they want to make best out of it by doing a claim when something happened and it didnt or what not. from what i can remember few years ago, some guy claimed his house burnt down and lost a whole collection of fire arms, not to mention he said that he had some rare ww2 pistols or something. insurance basically paid him tons..... yet still has his guns.

idk, just something to spill hehe.

but imma register my handgun soon.

 

[jcr]

I have no problem with providing pictures when making a claim. And I'm happy to include a newspaper w/ headline to show that it is an up-to-date picture.

I juist really don't like the idea of a yet-another-list of s/n-s where I know the goveernment can get to. Anybody who moved into Massachusetts already owning guns might have some off-paper guns -- it's a shame if this would get them "registered".

Then again, not insuring such off-paper guns [which are legal, so don't delete this post] is just more of the price we have to pay to live in MA.

Yes, everyone should read their policy (year after year). That doing so is only slightly more fun than getting your teeth drilled, is why few people do so.

It is kind of a clever, hidden price increase when after renewing a policy year after year, all of a sudden coverage goes from $2000 down to $500. I'm sure (not) that when the Homeowners policy renewal comes up, the letter highlights this interesting bit.

Sure, guns are in the car occasionally. Not often the whole collection goes. And though it is likely now that even one hits the $500 limit, I can't think of a time when car has been left unattended with any in it (and not because of the oft claimed but non-existant law).

Lastly, the coverage we've been discusssing pertains only to theft, yes? In case of fire, their are different limits?

 

[gene]

I wonder if the NRA has an insurance company that covers guns? Seems I read something about an insurance you could purchase but I can't remeber what type it was.

 

[Dick]

I wonder if the NRA has an insurance company that covers guns? Seems I read something about an insurance you could purchase but I can't remeber what type it was.

I just checked on the NRA website. Their coverage is called "ArmsCare" and it costs $1.66 annually per $100 of coverage. That's a good bit more than 1%, but it has the advantage that individual guns worth less than $1,500 don't need to be scheduled (listed) - those worth more need to be scheduled, but you don't need to list the S/N.

All this has convinced me to do something about my coverage, which is woefully short at the moment. (Which was Bob P's purpose in bringing it up in the first place - so thanks, Bob!)

 

[Skald]

i dont have insurance and i dont use it just... dont burn our house down or leave house unlock for some punk ass to walk in and take your stuff... plain and simple! being responsible, wont hurt us. just a lil brain with a good responsibility skill will lead us on very far.

i think of it it like this. some people get insurance because they can and they want to make best out of it by doing a claim when something happened and it didnt or what not. from what i can remember few years ago, some guy claimed his house burnt down and lost a whole collection of fire arms, not to mention he said that he had some rare ww2 pistols or something. insurance basically paid him tons..... yet still has his guns.

idk, just something to spill hehe.

but imma register my handgun soon.

I was like you, not having insurance, thinking by locking the doors etc I will be fine. Well, someone broke into my truck, stole my radio, laptop, cell phone and other misc. items for a tune of about $3,000. (laptop was hidden fully from view before you even ask, as was the cell phone).

I now happily pay the $200/yr for renters insurance because I can't afford to go out and replace $10,000 worth of stuff at once.

 

[Dick]

I just checked on the NRA website. Their coverage is called "ArmsCare" and it costs $1.66 annually per $1K of coverage.

I really do need to work on my reading comprehension and math skills, I guess.

I originally misread that the NRA coverage was $1.66 per thousand, did the math incorrectly, and concluded that was more expensive than 1%. It's not, of course, so I went back and corrected my original post. Now I look at the NRA site again, and see that it's actually $1.66 per hundred of coverage ($16.60 per thousand), so I was right the first time - it is quite a bit more than 1%. But it still has the advantage of not having to schedule guns less than $1,500 in value.

 

[Bob P]

I have no problem with providing pictures when making a claim. And I'm happy to include a newspaper w/ headline to show that it is an up-to-date picture.

I juist really don't like the idea of a yet-another-list of s/n-s where I know the goveernment can get to. Anybody who moved into Massachusetts already owning guns might have some off-paper guns -- it's a shame if this would get them "registered".

Then again, not insuring such off-paper guns [which are legal, so don't delete this post] is just more of the price we have to pay to live in MA.

Yes, everyone should read their policy (year after year). That doing so is only slightly more fun than getting your teeth drilled, is why few people do so.

It is kind of a clever, hidden price increase when after renewing a policy year after year, all of a sudden coverage goes from $2000 down to $500. I'm sure (not) that when the Homeowners policy renewal comes up, the letter highlights this interesting bit.

Sure, guns are in the car occasionally. Not often the whole collection goes. And though it is likely now that even one hits the $500 limit, I can't think of a time when car has been left unattended with any in it (and not because of the oft claimed but non-existant law).

Lastly, the coverage we've been discusssing pertains only to theft, yes? In case of fire, their are different limits?

Correct! Sublimit applies to loss by theft only.

 

[Bob P]

I really do need to work on my reading comprehension and math skills, I guess.

I originally misread that the NRA coverage was $1.66 per thousand, did the math incorrectly, and concluded that was more expensive than 1%. It's not, of course, so I went back and corrected my original post. Now I look at the NRA site again, and see that it's actually $1.66 per hundred of coverage ($16.60 per thousand), so I was right the first time - it is quite a bit more than 1%. But it still has the advantage of not having to schedule guns less than $1,500 in value.

I poppd over and took a look. It's a good coverage. The premium I quoted was an average for general schedules - intended as a guideline only. That's not a bad premium for the coverage you're getting.

& just a note: Firearms and jewelry are the 2 most popular items stolen during the commission of a crime - hence the low sublimit and high premium. The other thing is remember you DO have the (however much) coverage on your regular homeowners. If you've got the extender endorsement (and most policies do) you've got $2,000 in coverage. You don't need to put your entire collection on the floater - just your more expensive pieces. Just remember you can't collect for the same piece twice.

 

[Coyote33]

Could someone who knows more about insurance clear up the following terms please?

• extender endorsement
• floater
• rider

 

[Chris]

Look into an Umbrella policy. $1 Million isn't all that expensive.

 

[Dick]

Look into an Umbrella policy. $1 Million isn't all that expensive.

I agree everyone should have one, but it's a liability policy - won't help if your guns are stolen or fried in a fire.

 

[Bob P]

Could someone who knows more about insurance clear up the following terms please?

• extender endorsement
• floater
• rider

Extender: a common endorsement to a homeowner's policy that provides extra coverages on a broad basis - usually increases in sublimits coupled with replacement cost on contents (i.e. no depreciation)

Floater & rider: basically the same thing. An endorsement to a policy that provides coverage for a specific thing - like a firearms floater that covers your guns if stolen, lost or sometimes even if damaged. Ditto one for Jewlery