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Hornady 357 ammo issue

JoeyD

JoeyD

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I had an issue with some Hornady critical defense ammo today. They fired off fine but once fired they were stuck in the chambers. I had to use a wodden dowel to push them out.
I already shot 3 boxes of federal 38 special and 2 boxes of American eagle 357 with no issue's. I shot some after the Hornady issue with no problems after. It seems the casings are expanding.
 
Guess you are not using that for defense are you? What are you shooting it out of? I would suggest this. Clean the changers out well with your normal cleaning products. Then try it again, if you still have an issue use something else. I just want to make sure of one thing, the ejector rod won't move at all right? Are the cases definitely binding the rod?
 
JoeyD said:
I had an issue with some Hornady critical defense ammo today. They fired off fine but once fired they were stuck in the chambers. I had to use a wodden dowel to push them out.
I already shot 3 boxes of federal 38 special and 2 boxes of American eagle 357 with no issue's. I shot some after the Hornady issue with no problems after. It seems the casings are expanding.
Click to expand...

Had you just shot .38, then switched to .357? Could be gunk from the .38 causing it to stick, though I see you shot other .357, as well...
 
Smash05 said:
Guess you are not using that for defense are you? What are you shooting it out of? I would suggest this. Clean the changers out well with your normal cleaning products. Then try it again, if you still have an issue use something else. I just want to make sure of one thing, the ejector rod won't move at all right? Are the cases definitely binding the rod?
Click to expand...
Not using them for anything now. The ejector rod would not move them at all even pushing hard.
 
Keystone said:
Had you just shot .38, then switched to .357? Could be gunk from the .38 causing it to stick, though I see you shot other .357, as well...
Click to expand...

I did shoot a bunch of 38 ammo 1st that was very dirty but it was only the hornady stuff causing an issue.
 
JoeyD said:
I did shoot a bunch of 38 ammo 1st that was very dirty but it was only the hornady stuff causing an issue.
Click to expand...

If I had to guess, the Hornady is a bit hotter than the AE, which may have caused the brass to expand a bit more and to stick in the .38 gunk, where the AE didn't expand as much. That's a SWAG, though.
 
I would try the next time out shooting the Hornady from clean cylinders first. See what happens.
 
JoeyD said:
I have it all cleaned up and will shoot 6 more down the pipe and see what happens
Click to expand...
I'm gonna bet you will not have a problem.

I suspect dirty chambers from 38 Spcl and full power .357 (not AE weaksauce) caused the problem here.
 
Have you had a chance to shoot this ammo again through a clean gun?

I ask, because I encountered the same exact issue. Hornady .357 Mag 125 gr Critical Defense (#90500) - through a perfectly cleaned and lubricated Ruger Single Six 4" stainless steel .357 Magnum revolver.

After the firing the first 6 shots, all shell casings were stuck in the cylinder. They fired fine. The ejector rod would not budge (not that I tried to force it.)

It took a small wooden dowel placed into the chambers from the front of the cylinder into each spent shell to push them out of the back.

There have been hundreds .357 Magnum and .38 Special rounds through this Ruger before with zero issues. So, we tested my friend's Smith & Wesson 586 6" blued .357 Magnum revolver - with the same exact results. There have been thousands of rounds (both .38 Special and .357 Magnum) through the 586 with zero issues.

After removing the spent casings, each gun fired additional .38 Special (Winchester white box) and .357 Magnum (Winchester white box) rounds without issue.

Upon closer inspection of the offending shell casings, they were visibly expanded (slightly), but obviously enough to cause the FTE condition. The Winchester rounds that were fired after these showed no such casing expansion. I kept the shells and will get them under a micrometer shortly. I also have a bunch of unfired rounds from this box.

What are the odds there was a batch of these (#90500) that were loaded extra hot? Or, perhaps, had weaker than normal shell casings?

Wondering if it's worth a call to Hornady.
 
Sniper977 - thanks! Will be good to know...

ptanks56 - I wish a dirty cylinder was my problem. As it turns out, it was a completely clean gun - these were the first rounds fired from it after the cleaning. I confirmed with another model .357 Magnum as well. The case expansion is telling me something is off here.
 
I still have not fired anything through the gun yet. I will soon and report back. I bought some new 357 ammo from BassPro the other day, 3 brands, and will see what if anything I find out.

The ammo in question does show expansion at the base, enough to where you can see it easy with your eyes.
 
JoeyD - can I ask where you purchased this Hornady ammo from? I bought mine from a very popular gun shop in June. I'll go look for manufacturing data on the box.
 
OK so I went to the range last night with the trusty GP100-6". I'm a Glock guy but man I love my 357 wheelgun! I brought Hornady CD (HCD) 125gr i bought from Bass Pro in Foxboro about a month ago, and a box of Rem GoldenSaber (RGS) 125gr that I bought on 7/10/2010 so its a year old, and some brand new Rem Express (RE) 125gr SJHP(Semi-jacketed hollow points) from Bass Pro. I shot 6 HCD, then 6 RGS, then 12 RE, 6 RGS, 6 HCD, 6 RE, 6 RGS, 6 HCD, 6 RE, 6 RGS, and 6HCD. They all loaded and fired fine and are very accurate (at least the ragged 2" hole at 50 ft says they are). Neither fo the three ammo types seemed oversized to start with when loading. They all ejected fine. Obviously the rounds toward the end of the session were a little sticky due to some chamber reside building up which is expected but they all came out with normal expected force on the ejector rod. I figure if I had shot some 38spl (which i didnt have any this time)then there would be more sticking. Some I tried ejecting immediately and some I let stay in the cylinder and let the heat tranfer to the cylinder to see if they would cause more sticking...no real noticable difference.
I got home and measured with calipers the case mouth diameter and the case diameter of the visual "buldge" at the base and the case thickness of all the rounds I fired. THe case mouth dia of all three types varied between .379"-.380". The case "bulge" at the base all measured .381" and all the case thicknesses were between .009" - .012" thk.
So all in all, it was a fun range session and for my particular box of HCDs I didnt experience any abnormal sticking. Now I expect if I had shot 25-50 .38spl before the 357s then the extra 1/16" of residue in the chambers would have caused more sticking but once again nothing I wouldnt expect from a long range session with a revolver. I got home stripped and cleaned the revolver, reassembled and put it back in the bedroom for my wife loaded with a full cylinder of HCDs. I can only think that the issue with the original poster's ammo may be a bad batch of cases or perhaps tighter chambers than my GP100 has. Hope that helps.
 
That helps a lot - thanks for the detailed data.

Here are the case measurements of my fired rounds:

#1 0.383"
#2 0.384"
#3 0.383"
#4 0.383"
#5 0.384"
#6 0.383"
#7 0.384"

(Case thickness = 0.011")

Unfired round = 0.377"

#1 - #6 were through a Ruger Single Six 4" stainless steel .357 Magnum revolver (predecessor to the GP100) that was clean. #7 was through a Smith & Wesson 586 6" blued .357 Magnum revolver that just had 6 rounds of .357 Magnum Winchester whitebox through it (5 minutes prior) since it was cleaned.

Again, these were the Hornady Critical Defense .357 Magnum 125 grain FTX rounds, #90500

JoeyD - I am interested in your Lot # on the box, if you still have it.
 
Yup - me, too. I bought it in June 2011.

The Lot # on the box was: 3110914 - would be very interested to see what your Lot # is.

I spoke to Hornady and they want the unfired and fired rounds back for testing, so I'm going to see what I can do.

BTW - this stuff happens. I still think Hornady is one of the premier ammo manufacturers in the US, especially when it comes to self defense pistol ammunition. The guys I talked to there were great (and their phone menu system is hilarious.) So far, their customer focus seems spot on - we'll see how it goes.
 
FFReak said:
Yup - me, too. I bought it in June 2011.

The Lot # on the box was: 3110914 - would be very interested to see what your Lot # is.

I spoke to Hornady and they want the unfired and fired rounds back for testing, so I'm going to see what I can do.

BTW - this stuff happens. I still think Hornady is one of the premier ammo manufacturers in the US, especially when it comes to self defense pistol ammunition. The guys I talked to there were great (and their phone menu system is hilarious.) So far, their customer focus seems spot on - we'll see how it goes.
Click to expand...

I will look tonight when i get home and post it up.
 
Hornady has had my fired and unfired rounds for 2 weeks. I contacted them last Friday and was told that "Carl" had not gotten to them yet.

For another data point, went shooting yesterday with said friend with S&W 586 and a fresh box of this ammunition, but with a different lot # purchased from a different gun shop (First Defense.) Low and behold - same exact issue.

It's too bad - these are great rounds and I carry them in my 229.

Did they give you any more info? Recall? Are they sending you a check?

Thanks.
 
FFReak said:
Hornady has had my fired and unfired rounds for 2 weeks. I contacted them last Friday and was told that "Carl" had not gotten to them yet.

For another data point, went shooting yesterday with said friend with S&W 586 and a fresh box of this ammunition, but with a different lot # purchased from a different gun shop (First Defense.) Low and behold - same exact issue.

It's too bad - these are great rounds and I carry them in my 229.

Did they give you any more info? Recall? Are they sending you a check?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

E mail I just got said they will replace the ammo with new. They are picking the ammo up, UPS is anyways and will let me know what they find out.
 
Still no word from Hornady as of today for me. I have faith.

The 586's chambers feel fine. I have not measured them, but even the unfired Hornady CD feed into them smoothly just like every other round does. Same with my Ruger. It was freshly cleaned 2 weeks before being fired - these Hornady CD's being the first rounds through it. No other residue from any other rounds.

I'll have to get the gun and will measure the 586's chambers. I should be able to measure the Security Six's tonight.

Again - all other .357 Magnum and .38 Special rounds feed into the chambers of both guns just fine, and the empty cartridges eject just fine - except for the Hornady CD.
 
Wow! I didn't see this thread til now.

I bought a Model 60 and had the exact same problem you did. The rounds fired but were stuck HARD in the cylinder. Had to tap it on the table to knock them out. Foolishly tried another cylinder and had the same issue.

The gun was clean at the time (I wouldn't fire a used gun that I hadn't gone through at least briefly) and the only issue I have had with it other than the hornady is two failures to fire. The failures to fire really worry me since this is intended to be a gun I carry for self defense, but either way, the hornady ammo seems to have issues. I have shot Fiocci, Speer Gold Dots, and Independence with the gun and had ZERO issues. No ammo got stuck in the cylinder or even slightly indicated that it might be a little stuck, other than the hornady.
 
I spoke with the engineer at Hornady today and he was able to complete his failure analysis on the returned ammo and cases.

The cases I had sent back were definitely out of spec after being fired. He believes that during the annealing process when forming the shell cases, too much heat was applied for an extended period of time resulting in a "softer" than desirable material. He detailed that typically when a round is fired that the case expands (.000's of an inch) in order to seal the chamber, and almost immediately it shrinks back down for easy ejection. The issue with the defective metal was that it was not shrinking down after the round was fired, causing the stuck casings in the cylinders. My apologies in advance for my simplistic explanation, I am not a materials engineer / metallurgist. ;-)

They are using the data to look at other potentially affected units.

He was very honest and complimentary - very customer focused. They are sending me new ammo from a lot which they have not had any issues with. I'm very pleased with their attention to my issue and will carry this ammo again. There are DPM in any manufacturing process - and although this scenario is more sensitive than others (concealed carry), it did not yield in a FTF. Thankfully, it wasn't semi-auto ammo, either!

I'd encourage you to contact Hornady with any problems you have.

http://www.hornady.com/contact_us
 

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