Horrible experience…I almost went to jail!!!

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I have had something terrible happen to me. Back a couple of months ago I walked into a Boston area shop to purchase a pre-ban high cap mag for use in my Glock 27. The man, who I believe is the owner, gave me the choice of purchasing one of two Glock 22 (full size – 15 round) mags. I make a quick choice…pay him 18.00 and I leave a happy customer. The mag I bought had a 1 round extension on it so I loaded it with 16 rounds and threw it in my ammo bag. The next day I noticed that the sides of the mag were bulging. Some research later I discover that the mag had no metal lining and is not supposed to be used with a plus one extender.

I go back to the shop the next day and ask the shop owner to swap the non-metal lined mag with the other one he offered me. This one was full metal lined. However, the back of the mag did not look pre-ban to me. The caliber identification seemed higher than it should have been. I questioned the owner about whether he was sure this may was pre-ban. He became very frustrated and barked at me that he would not be selling it if it was not civilian legal (there was a uniformed LEO in the store). I was embarrassed. Feeling assured that this man was right I left the store a happy camper. However, I discovered tonight, after hundreds of rounds put through this mag, that it is post-ban. I am facing five years and a $10,000 dollar fine if I am discovered with this mag. Yikes!!!!!

Tomorrow I am going to call the gun store about this issue. I want to give them the opportunity to make this right. I like to be optimistic that this was just a mistake. If they harass me over this I will let you all know the store I am talking about.
 
what part lead to the almost going to jail part.you didn't mention anything about that part.

unless you were worried the LEO that was in the gun shop arresting you for making a disturbance? (which by the sound of it,you didn't)
 
How to identify preban glock mags

Here is how you can identify preban glock mags

preban.jpg
 
what a state...congratulations youve now a criminal!! woohoo

please check "all" financial assetts at the door and proceed to the "Thomas Reilly Memorial Constitutional Rights Stripping Center" for processing..
 
Although I believe that you are right, there are some things that you should be aware of:

- Pat Sweeney's book on the Glock (well worth buying and on my short list) pointed out that just as he was about to go to press with his book, a trusted source showed him some pre-ban mags that do NOT look like the commonly known pre-ban mags! I believe that this book went to press BEFORE the Fed ban expired.

- I was very suspicious about the problem you encountered when I was looking at Glocks back in November. I called the Glock-VA office and talked with a very helpful Tech Supt person. He advised me that the VA office can NOT GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER out of Glock-Austria on what is pre-ban vs. made during the ban. He told me that Glock-Austria "made little tweaks to the mag design over the years and NEVER advised the VA operation about these changes". Furthermore, when he inquired about the pre-ban vs. ban mags, Glock-Austria allegedly responded with "you people have some strange laws, it's not our problem!"

- It is my understanding (not confirmed) that during the ban, mags made for Europe were NOT marked "LEO/Gov't Only", but were "plain Jane".

- Mags as you describe are being supplied by Distributors to MA FFLs and the MA FFLs are BEING TOLD THAT THEY ARE PRE-BAN. I have my suspicions that the MA FFLs are being lied to, but have no proof at this time. I know of 2 Distributors that are making this claim (I have spoken with a few MA FFLs who have confirmed this info, and they are good guys who I trust) and almost every "pre-ban" Glock mag that I saw at the Marlboro gun show was similar to the one you bought!

- I am trying to get an Email address for someone in Glock-Austria Tech Supt to see if I can get a straight answer. So far, nobody seems to have any Email addresses there to give me.

- Some LEOs (in Middlesex County) claim to know how to tell the banned ones and are claiming to be looking for people to bust. Most LEOs that I know don't know and don't care about the mags.
 
LenS,

Thank you for posting. I will keep an open mind when I speak with the gun shop. If you get any more concrete info be sure to make it a sticky.
 
Right now, if my guess is correct about 50% of Glock owners would join you in jail. They'll need massive tax increases and have to build dozens more jails to house all of the dangerous criminal mag possessors out there! [evil]
 
I should also mention that the mag I bought came with a #6 follower. Is it possable for a #6 follower to be pre-ban. I understand that it is possible that the mag was upgraded.
 
I seriously don't expect to get any real info for a matter of months! It's been damn impossible to get any contact info. Look at Glock's website, not a single Email address for the factory listed anywhere that I could find.

Probably have to go to a large business library (nothing near me) and look at the International D&B book to find contact names . . . bet they won't have any Email addresses listed though.
 
GASTON GLOCK GMBH
Klagenfurter Strasse
32a/und 32b, Velden Am
Woerther See, AT


dunn and bradstreet report keeps erroring out, cant get everything..maybe tomorrow.
 
C-pher said:
senorFrog said:
Horrible experience…I almost went to jail!!!

Are we being a little dramatic? I read nothing in your post where you almost got arrested and charged.

I think that they call that sarcasim.

I think they call it unnecessary concern. Let me know when the Mag Police start searching :?
 
Round Gun Shooter said:
C-pher said:
senorFrog said:
Horrible experience…I almost went to jail!!!

Are we being a little dramatic? I read nothing in your post where you almost got arrested and charged.

I think that they call that sarcasim.

I think they call it unnecessary concern. Let me know when the Mag Police start searching :?

All it takes is a traffic stop and you are up shit creek.
 
All you need is one cop with a hair up thier ass when you're on the way to the range.

I'm sure that Jon can answer this, as well as some of the other LEO. But if you have guns in your car, can they use that as PC to search for Hi cap magazines?

You can't really tell them No, if you have a range bag on the back seat, targets all over the place, and a few gun cases in plain view.
 
Gotta love this state...NOT.

IF you have an LTC-A (ALP), you can walk around with two Glocks on your hip and a dufflebag over your shoulder, full of loaded 10-round magazines, but just possessing one unloaded post-ban, high-cap magazine can have you subject to arrest, prosecution, and the permanent revocation of your right to own firearms.

click here
 
C-pher said:
All you need is one cop with a hair up thier ass when you're on the way to the range.

I'm sure that Jon can answer this, as well as some of the other LEO. But if you have guns in your car, can they use that as PC to search for Hi cap magazines?

You can't really tell them No, if you have a range bag on the back seat, targets all over the place, and a few gun cases in plain view.
You really need a cop to know that any particular hicap mag is not legal. It's just not something that is "taught". I'd say the majority of guys I work with have no idea what the law on hicaps is let alone how to identify an "illegal" mag. Most don't even know that Mass still has the AWB and what it covers.

Just having a firearm in the car or on your person would not be PC to search for hicap mags. If you were licensed and produced your license after being ordered to show it there would be no further reason for a search for mags.

Also, range bag, gun cases or targets anywhere does not equal GUN.
 
I would like to meet an LEO who can actually tell?

We tend to be much more educated than the average cop when it comes to firearms and actually the laws. There tends to be a tremendous amount of overreaction in the state of MA. To be honest I was told by a S&W rep that I could simply go to RI or another state and purchase hi cap mags. It was not against the law esp. when you have a Class LTC Large Capacity. I have not done this nor do Ic are since I have high cap mags with the guns I own.

Most cops are lucky if they know what firearm they are carrying. I know I am going to get jumped on for that comment but where I am from they could care less what gun you are carrying. I guess we are not like the Newtons and Bostons though.
 
God forbid you ever have to use that gun in a defensive situation though. I BET the DA would have EVERY inch of that gun checked for anything that might be illegal.

Adam
 
Prob. Cause

Based on recent Supreme Court decisions, a bag in a car, gun or not, is not even close to being probable cause of a search of a mv.

Most law enforcement types don't have a clue what would be pre or post ban magazines. I would put monoy on the fact most don't even know the capacity of their own magazines but simply fill until full.

I don't have any experience in Mass. gun law enforcement but have almost 30 years of experience in New Jersey where the climate is even worse. I can say no one was ever incarcirated for the simple possession of a hi-cap magazine. A fine maybe. There was rarely if ever a jail sentence for a assault rifle violation unless if was in conjunction with another serious violence crime. Most of the time they were just taken away. Al most of those times the information of the possession came from a pissed off family member during the course of a dispute.

So based on the fact that most of the state penial institutions are almost full, I think the chance of getting jailed for this type of minor offense is slim to none. [roll]
 
Re: I would like to meet an LEO who can actually tell?

IrishIron said:
We tend to be much more educated than the average cop when it comes to firearms and actually the laws. There tends to be a tremendous amount of overreaction in the state of MA. To be honest I was told by a S&W rep that I could simply go to RI or another state and purchase hi cap mags. It was not against the law esp. when you have a Class LTC Large Capacity. I have not done this nor do Ic are since I have high cap mags with the guns I own.

Most cops are lucky if they know what firearm they are carrying. I know I am going to get jumped on for that comment but where I am from they could care less what gun you are carrying. I guess we are not like the Newtons and Bostons though.
No, you're not going to get jumped on that statement. It's somewhat true. The carry piece is just another "tool". As long as it goes bang when and if it's needed, that's all that counts. The majority are not "gun nuts" and could care less what make, model, generation the firearm is.

You also have to realize that firearm laws are not something that the average cops has to deal with. We deal much more with, assaults, domestics, motor vehicle accidents, break in, larcenies.
The hicap and AWB laws would be mostly used by the prosecutors office to heap on more charges to an already serious situation that someone would find himself in.

Please don't misconstrue what I'm saying and think "what the hell, no one is gonna know". You don't want to be in a situation where you're going to have to defend yourself.
 
Len, not sure if this is of use to you, but from topglock.com I got:

Europe, Africa, Middle East:
Glock Ges.m.b.H.
P.O. Box 50 A-2232
Deutsch-Wagram, Austria
Tel. (43) 2247-2460
Fax. (43) 2247-2460/12
 
Firearm's Knowledge

I had to do everything to outright threaten by officers to go qualify to offer free coupons to Dunkin Donuts (just kidding on that one). Most hated to go to the range and had little knowledge on firearm's. A few had an interest as a hobby and usually wound up as instructors. To be fair, NJ did not make it very easy to have firearms as a hobby. Outdoor ranges were almost non-existent. Indoor ranges restricted the type of firearm and its use. Many would not allow any type of combat targets unless it was a authorized department qualification.

As group of firearms instructors was forced to carve a range out of a piece of property given to use off of the NJ Turnpike in a working landfill. At least the glow of the earth kept the range lit and the shooters warm!!! [roll]
 
MarkM said:
Len, not sure if this is of use to you, but from topglock.com I got:

Europe, Africa, Middle East:
Glock Ges.m.b.H.
P.O. Box 50 A-2232
Deutsch-Wagram, Austria
Tel. (43) 2247-2460
Fax. (43) 2247-2460/12

Mark,

Thanks but I don't want to try "dialogging" with an international mailing address.

I really want an Email address of either a top official (to hand down to someone) or a Tech Supt person so that when one answer leads to the next question we can have a continuum of discussion and documentation.

Going thru the US and Austrian Mail system can take weeks on each piece of correspondence, may get answered by multiple people without referring to prior responses (I've had this with Tech Supt in the US on some tech supt web-chat deals), etc.
 
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