How I got an anti gun mom pissed at me.

smeds said:
I don't want to ruffle any feathers, and I certainly don't agree with the woman's actions in the OP's post, but I think the Hobby Lobby decision is a bit more problematic than some other board members have portrayed it. In my opinion, it's not an issue of women paying for their own birth control or not, it's a question of equality in employer-provided healthcare. For many women, birth control is a basic part of their personal health (not necessarily in terms of preventing pregnancy either; I'm personally acquainted with many who take birth control to regulate hormones that cause migraines, etc.) and if the employer is providing a health insurance policy it should logically cover birth control too. I wouldn't want to have my employer refuse to pay for a blood transfusion because they were Jehovah's Witnesses...

Closely held can mean a lot more than just small family-run businesses; it applies to the majority (80%, according to the IRS) of American businesses since to be "closely held" only means that 5 or fewer people have a majority share of it.

Personally, I believe that a person's freedom of belief is absolute, but it can't trump another person's right to fair treatment or health. If you don't want an abortion, by all means don't get one, but it's not my business what anyone else does with their private life anyhow. Just my .02.
Click to expand...

First, they can get hormone treatments under the plan so your argument is invalid.

Second, a question in equality? Since Hobby Lobby pays almost twice the minimum wage their workers can easily pay out of pocket. Also, should my employer be forced to pay for my son's medically necessary orthodontia? It's only $5k so much cheaper than monthly contraceptives over time and it's only fair that he is treated "equal"
 
dovecoon said:
The other thing people forget is that I can guarantee you Hobby Lobby didn't do this because of religious beliefs. They really didn't want to cover birth control because that costs money, and they just used religion as an excuse.
Click to expand...

Bullshit - the day after pill they didn't want to cover is $30/dose. Unless you have a fleet of sluts working for you, how many doses is the average employee going to take over a lifetime? They actually would pay more for the insurance as there would be a higher chance of covering the cost of a pregnancy.
The fact that Hobby Lobby provides insurance that covers 16 of the 20 approved types of contraceptive is lost to those who rile against big business. They are not removing a woman's access, they simply don't want to be part of something that opposes their core beliefs.
 
leewongfei said:
I was at hobby lobby with my wife today. I saw a deal on pipe cleaners and put them into my wifes shopping cart. I went outside of the store with one of my daughters and waited for my wife to finish up. Some crazy moonbat b!tch approached me and made a statement that as a father of a little girl, that I shouldn’t support hobby lobby. She stated that it was because of hobby lobby that the SCOTUS ruled against women. I then told the lady that I supported the SCOTUS decision, that as a father, I couldn’t agree with it more. She flipped. She started screaming that I was an irresponsible father. At that point, my wife walked by my side. I reached into her bag, grabbed my pipe cleaners and told the lady that I wasn’t irresponsible. I told her that I bought pipe cleaners to clean the gas tube on my AR15 in order to keep it in good working order should the need ever come up hat I needed to protect my daughters. Well, that lady flipped out. I started laughing, my daughters started laughing, my wife called her crazy, and we all walked away.

View attachment 109329
Click to expand...
[rofl][thumbsup]
 
No. They said that Hobby Lobby, and any closely held (owned) business, did not have to pay for 4 types of abortive birth control like (Corrected) Morning After abortion drugs, they pay for all 16 other types of contraception. And if someone wants to take morning after drugs, they can walk into any drug store and get them they just have to pay for them themselves. The idiots like this woman who run around in a foamy lather about this don't even know what the **** SCOTUS ruled or why. They just listen to the completely fabricated radical left news reports about it. Lets all say a prayer for George Stephanopolous, who invented the "War on Women" while he worked for the Clinton administration as a cultural weapon against conservatives. The Obummer administration has used it extensively as a wedge to keep people fighting with each other, and this lunatic you ran into is a prime example of how well it works. These pols who would do this are pure evil.

headednorth said:
I have to admit to not following that case closely. Afaik, SCOTUS basically said women have to pay for their own birth control, correct? Or is there more to it than that?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
smeds said:
I don't want to ruffle any feathers, and I certainly don't agree with the woman's actions in the OP's post, but I think the Hobby Lobby decision is a bit more problematic than some other board members have portrayed it. In my opinion, it's not an issue of women paying for their own birth control or not, it's a question of equality in employer-provided healthcare. For many women, birth control is a basic part of their personal health (not necessarily in terms of preventing pregnancy either; I'm personally acquainted with many who take birth control to regulate hormones that cause migraines, etc.) and if the employer is providing a health insurance policy it should logically cover birth control too. I wouldn't want to have my employer refuse to pay for a blood transfusion because they were Jehovah's Witnesses...

Closely held can mean a lot more than just small family-run businesses; it applies to the majority (80%, according to the IRS) of American businesses since to be "closely held" only means that 5 or fewer people have a majority share of it.

Personally, I believe that a person's freedom of belief is absolute, but it can't trump another person's right to fair treatment or health. If you don't want an abortion, by all means don't get one, but it's not my business what anyone else does with their private life anyhow. Just my .02.
Click to expand...

I believe Hobby Lobby's health plan actually covers the majority of the types of birth control that are most often prescribed to help regulate hormones. Hobby Lobby is not against all methods of birth control they have issues with certain methods (4 I think) of birth control that they believe are abortifacients (methods that cause abortions rather than prevent pregnancy). That being said, there is some disagreement as to whether the methods Hobby Lobby doesn't want to pay for, are actually abortifacients.

Not trying to sway you one way or the other, just putting a bit more facts into the discussion.
 
beaker said:
No. They said that Hobby Lobby, and any closely held (owned) business, did not have to pay for 4 types of Morning After abortion drugs, they pay for all 16 other types of contraception.
Click to expand...

Just an FYI, two of the methods Hobby Lobby doesn't like are specific types of implantable IUD's, the other two are "Morning After" style pills.
 
smeds said:
I don't want to ruffle any feathers, and I certainly don't agree with the woman's actions in the OP's post, but I think the Hobby Lobby decision is a bit more problematic than some other board members have portrayed it. In my opinion, it's not an issue of women paying for their own birth control or not, it's a question of equality in employer-provided healthcare. For many women, birth control is a basic part of their personal health (not necessarily in terms of preventing pregnancy either; I'm personally acquainted with many who take birth control to regulate hormones that cause migraines, etc.) and if the employer is providing a health insurance policy it should logically cover birth control too. I wouldn't want to have my employer refuse to pay for a blood transfusion because they were Jehovah's Witnesses...

Closely held can mean a lot more than just small family-run businesses; it applies to the majority (80%, according to the IRS) of American businesses since to be "closely held" only means that 5 or fewer people have a majority share of it.

Personally, I believe that a person's freedom of belief is absolute, but it can't trump another person's right to fair treatment or health. If you don't want an abortion, by all means don't get one, but it's not my business what anyone else does with their private life anyhow. Just my .02.
Click to expand...

The thing is - employee provided or subsidized healthcare is supposed to be a perk, something that companies provide to get people to want to work for them. If it weren't for all the government regulation and red tape, health insurance would probably be something that the average person could afford without companies getting involved. Now we have all sorts of mandates in place, and they are clouding the real issue which is that people should be free to spend their money how they want to. If that means that a company has a perk where they give out hot tub vouchers, great, if that means that a company has a health policy where they only cover dental and nothing else, great, let the market tell them if it is a good idea.
 
Looks like you have bought into this "war on women" hook line and sinker. There are no rights guaranteed by the Constitution regarding health care or birth control as it is based on natural rights and personal liberty. Birth control isn't about equality, I would like to see your legal and rational argument about that, but there isn't one so good luck. Your concept of equality is seems to be perverted. You are equal in the sense that you have the same natural rights, that you have the same rights to property, the same rights to representation, the same rights to better yourself through the fruits of your labor. Unfortunately, you think equality is benefiting yourself from the benefits of OTHER peoples labor.

I would bet that you think that people have a "Right" to medical care, birth control, eating, and a paycheck without working just because they are poor, Amiright?

Vasectomy's are covered under most insurance, so is surgical sterilization for women. These don't involve aborting a live fetus, see the difference?

Your statement that Hobby Lobby spent millions of dollars fighting in court all the way to the SCOTUS to remove 4 abortion forms of birth control from the Federally mandatory insurance coverage (in clear violation of the Constitution and other laws to protect THEIR rights to freedom of religion) is patently ridiculous. It is clear that you have all of these strong opinions and know nothing of the case. I suggest you do some research, which is more than watching MSNBC or CNN and believing anything they say.

dovecoon said:
It's absolutely an equality problem. The problem is that this is one of those situations where it's impossible to be equal, and many people don't like that idea. If women get birth control coverage in their healthcare (By the way, the pill prevents certain cancers, too) the only male equivalent would be covering vasectomies or condoms, which isn't quite the same thing.

The other thing people forget is that I can guarantee you Hobby Lobby didn't do this because of religious beliefs. They really didn't want to cover birth control because that costs money, and they just used religion as an excuse.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
OK, thanks for correcting that. When I read the ruling it was related to the 4 forms of birth control that resulted in the termination of a pregnancy, not contraception so I guess two of them where IUD's that do that.

Smokewagon said:
Just an FYI, two of the methods Hobby Lobby doesn't like are specific types of implantable IUD's, the other two are "Morning After" style pills.
Click to expand...
 
Why doesn't this ever happen to me? You could have made the response even better by indicating it was your daughter who was going to be cleaning and firing her own AR15, while your pregnant wife makes you a sammich.

Bwahahahha....
 
The moonbats out on the western frontier vastly outnumber us....so they have no fear of approaching a random stranger as, odds are, they share their beliefs. This freak probably thought that she was educating you...oops, she couldn't have been more wrong. I would have paid to have been there...but it would have ended up as a double team as I would have entered the fray.

Wait, did I just say double team? With a fugly old liberal bag?!? Brain cleanse initiated!!
 
leewongfei said:
I was at hobby lobby with my wife today. I saw a deal on pipe cleaners and put them into my wifes shopping cart. I went outside of the store with one of my daughters and waited for my wife to finish up. Some crazy moonbat b!tch approached me and made a statement that as a father of a little girl, that I shouldn’t support hobby lobby. She stated that it was because of hobby lobby that the SCOTUS ruled against women. I then told the lady that I supported the SCOTUS decision, that as a father, I couldn’t agree with it more. She flipped. She started screaming that I was an irresponsible father. At that point, my wife walked by my side. I reached into her bag, grabbed my pipe cleaners and told the lady that I wasn’t irresponsible. I told her that I bought pipe cleaners to clean the gas tube on my AR15 in order to keep it in good working order should the need ever come up hat I needed to protect my daughters. Well, that lady flipped out. I started laughing, my daughters started laughing, my wife called her crazy, and we all walked away.

View attachment 109329
Click to expand...

Only thing that would have been better would have been if she had stroked out on the sidewalk
 
You gotta love grown adults who run on childrens playground mentality emotion, AND they vote!
I have agreed and "sympathized" when confronted face to face with these types, I praise their aggressive stance on "assault weapons", and THEN I compare them to history's most famous characters for having duplicate political views, Stalin, Lenin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and of course, old Dolphie! I made a Peace Abbey'ers head explode by calling him a traitor, he went from "peace and tolerance" to, "You gotta be kidding[as in Bugs Bunny cartoon thermometer]me" in a nano-second.
It's more entertaining than watching Benny Hill!
Off to find a libby to mess with...
btdubs, did you suggest that pipe cleaners also double a good birth control method to this "lady?"
 
Last edited:
smeds said:
I don't want to ruffle any feathers, and I certainly don't agree with the woman's actions in the OP's post, but I think the Hobby Lobby decision is a bit more problematic than some other board members have portrayed it. In my opinion, it's not an issue of women paying for their own birth control or not, it's a question of equality in employer-provided healthcare. For many women, birth control is a basic part of their personal health (not necessarily in terms of preventing pregnancy either; I'm personally acquainted with many who take birth control to regulate hormones that cause migraines, etc.) and if the employer is providing a health insurance policy it should logically cover birth control too. I wouldn't want to have my employer refuse to pay for a blood transfusion because they were Jehovah's Witnesses...

Closely held can mean a lot more than just small family-run businesses; it applies to the majority (80%, according to the IRS) of American businesses since to be "closely held" only means that 5 or fewer people have a majority share of it.

Personally, I believe that a person's freedom of belief is absolute, but it can't trump another person's right to fair treatment or health. If you don't want an abortion, by all means don't get one, but it's not my business what anyone else does with their private life anyhow. Just my .02.
Click to expand...
If you are for personal freedom, there should be no mandate for employer-provided health care and equality should be no issue. Don't like your employer's health care plan? Find a new employer.
 
headednorth said:
To break balls, I'll sometimes say something like, "theyre tolerant in the liberal sense of the word, meaning "not tolerant"." Or, "its fair in the liberal sense of the word, meaning "not fair"."
Click to expand...
To be truly tolerant, one must also be tolerant of those they think are not.
 
smeds said:
I don't want to ruffle any feathers, and I certainly don't agree with the woman's actions in the OP's post, but I think the Hobby Lobby decision is a bit more problematic than some other board members have portrayed it. In my opinion, it's not an issue of women paying for their own birth control or not, it's a question of equality in employer-provided healthcare. For many women, birth control is a basic part of their personal health (not necessarily in terms of preventing pregnancy either; I'm personally acquainted with many who take birth control to regulate hormones that cause migraines, etc.) and if the employer is providing a health insurance policy it should logically cover birth control too. I wouldn't want to have my employer refuse to pay for a blood transfusion because they were Jehovah's Witnesses...

Closely held can mean a lot more than just small family-run businesses; it applies to the majority (80%, according to the IRS) of American businesses since to be "closely held" only means that 5 or fewer people have a majority share of it.

Personally, I believe that a person's freedom of belief is absolute, but it can't trump another person's right to fair treatment or health. If you don't want an abortion, by all means don't get one, but it's not my business what anyone else does with their private life anyhow. Just my .02.
Click to expand...


Despite the fact that you point seems to ignore the limited breadth of the contraceptives at issue (moring after pills and the like), your option is to go work for a business that doesn't maintain a religious objection to your desired form of health care.

Now, as a legal matter the interests (govt vs Hobby Lobby)were balanced. I doubt the balancing test would come out similarly with a business owned by Jehovah's Witnesses who refused to pay for emergency blood transfusions in their HMO. Additionally, while closely run businesses are a majority of American businesses, only roughly half of American employees are employed by closely held businesses--and a large incalculatable number of those employees' are actually the corporate holders. Certainly a significant number, but this argument reminds me of liberal gun statistics by handpicking only a semi-relevant denominator.

Again, this whole case, when you boil it all down, rests on this cockamamie notion society has that somehow you have a right to your job.
 
Last edited:
dovecoon said:
The other thing people forget is that I can guarantee you Hobby Lobby didn't do this because of religious beliefs. They really didn't want to cover birth control because that costs money, and they just used religion as an excuse.
Click to expand...
Hobby Lobby would have incured, at the vey most, increased healthcare costs of a couple million dollars. The cost of fines in refusing to comply with Obamacare was over $250 Million.

For a business not open on Sundays, and a business which in the past refused to agree to a logistics contract in which liquor would be transported in it's trucks despite millions in potential profits, any dispute that their religious concerns were a front for the lost profits of actually providing coverage is absurd.
 
pastera said:
Bullshit - the day after pill they didn't want to cover is $30/dose. Unless you have a fleet of sluts working for you, how many doses is the average employee going to take over a lifetime? They actually would pay more for the insurance as there would be a higher chance of covering the cost of a pregnancy.
The fact that Hobby Lobby provides insurance that covers 16 of the 20 approved types of contraceptive is lost to those who rile against big business. They are not removing a woman's access, they simply don't want to be part of something that opposes their core beliefs.
Click to expand...


This. Funny how some people keep lying about hoe Hobby Lobby will not provide ANY contraception to their female employees when in truth they provide 16 out of the 20 available. It's nothing more than the pro abortion, anti Christian, nanny state commies pushing their agenda. Are they forcing Islamic organizations to provide contraception to their employees?
 
OfficerObie59 said:
Hobby Lobby would have incured, at the vey most, increased healthcare costs of a couple million dollars. The cost of fines in refusing to comply with Obamacare was over $250 Million.

For a business not open on Sundays, and a business which in the past refused to agree to a logistics contract in which liquor would be transported in it's trucks despite millions in potential profits, any dispute that their religious concerns were a front for the lost profits of actually providing coverage is absurd.
Click to expand...

Ah, I stand corrected. That'll teach me to jump to conclusions without doing any research for myself.
 

Similar threads

How an Oklahoma man double-crossed a Mexican cartel with knockoff guns.
Replies
5
Views
382
jkelly1229
J
can someone tell me in layman's english how exactly does israel's "iron dome" work?
2 3
Replies
60
Views
1K
drgrant
drgrant
James Cameron pokes fun at American gun culture during Paris ‘Terminator’ screening: ‘I can just go buy them’
Replies
12
Views
327
Reptile
Reptile
What's acceptable Secure Storage for gun safes, guns and ammo in MA when in moving transition for an extended period of time?
Replies
24
Views
435
houdini
houdini
How do I build this Firecracker Artillery Gun?
2 3 4
Replies
113
Views
13K
Remote Camper
R
Back
Top Bottom