Hunting with 9mm semi-auto

[aig1]

I am trying to get some more information on handgun hunting for the purposes of figuring out what equipment I may want to buy and what I can do with stuff I already own or have already planned to purchase in near future.

I like hunting but have not done it in many years. Now that I am getting my firearms permits in order and provided I sit through a Hunting ed class, I will be able to hunt.

Searching through the web for handgun hunting advices I found some pretty good basic advice:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_hunting.htm
http://www.handgunhunt.com/feature/index.html
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/hunt_121305/
http://www.darkcanyon.net/handgun_hunting_how_to.htm

The bottom line seems to be:
1. Learn to shoot with .22. Use that for squirrels and other varmints
2. Use large caliber revolvers (or single shot pistols which I consider cut-down rifles so I will not even discuss them) with scopes for large game
3. There is the tendency to ask the handgun to do crazy things like making >100 yard shots, i.e. requiring very specialized equipment and ammo.

I found virtually no discussion of what one can and cannot do, in terms of hunting, with a out of the box military pistol with fixed sights, especially a semi-auto of the major calibers: 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. That may be due to the fact that those weapons really suck for hunting. Or it maybe that these require extra skill and patience to get close enough to the game to make a reliable shot.

So I would like to ask the knowledgeable folk that may have attempted to hunt with those calibers to tell me if there is game that may be hunted successfully with semi-autos.

Naively speaking, a head shot with any of those calibers should be able to quickly (ethically) put down small to medium sized (maybe even large) game. The question is can one get close enough to make a head shot. For out of the box military handguns with iron sights that is possibly 50 yards or less.

there are laws about minimum calibers used for hunting large game. Apart from that, what are the standard 1911's, Sig's, Beretta's, and other semi-autos good for in terms of hunting?

Without starting a caliber war, let's treat .45ACP, .40S&W, and 9mm as having the same kill potential. I believe in shot placement!

Thanks,

Alexi

 

[jhrosier]

My experience with auto pistol cartridges is not very promising for any type of hunting past 50 yards. Even when fired from a long gun, they are lacking in both power and accuracy past 50 yards. There is a large difference between being able to stop a person by wounding and being able to harvest game animals with one or two well placed shots.
At ranges inside 50 yards, you may enjoy some better results, if your shooting skills are well developed. The best way to test your skills is on the range. If you can hit a beverage can at 50 yards, most of the time, you might not go hungry too often.
Faced with such a challenge, I would be strongly inclined to pick a Ruger Single-Six revolver with a 6-1/2" barrel in .22 Mag. caliber. You could easily pack one of these with a couple hundred rounds of ammo in addition to your defensive sidearm.

 

[firtree]

None of the above mentioned cartridges would be considered acceptable for
game in the US. They are all too large for small game and far too weak for large game.
Maybe for Javelina, but that's about it. I would consider 45LC as the lowest-power large
game handgun caliber, and that all depends on loading. Real 10MM, 44mag,
41mag, 454, etc. are also fine.

F

 

[Twigg]

There's not much to actually hunt with a handgun in Massachusetts.

2007 Abstracts

 

[EddieCoyle]

Naively speaking, a head shot with any of those calibers should be able to quickly (ethically) put down small to medium sized (maybe even large) game. The question is can one get close enough to make a head shot. For out of the box military handguns with iron sights that is possibly 50 yards or less.

What are you planning on hunting? As MrTwigg acurately pointed out, there's not a lot you can shoot with a handgun (at least in Mass). You will be able to hunt fox, bobcat, and coyote with a handgun, but remember that animals are a lot tougher than humans, and it will take a real kill shot to put one down with a handgun.

If you're confident enough in your stealth and shooting abilities to make a head shot likely, then go for it. I know I wouldn't try.

 

[Coyote33]

There's not much to actually hunt with a handgun in Massachusetts.

2007 Abstracts

Thanks for that handgun hunting link. This one was news to me:

2. The hunting of wild turkey with a pistol or revolver is PROHIBITED. Refer to 321 CMR 3.02(9)(h).

 

[Twigg]

You will be able to hunt fox, bobcat, and coyote with a handgun,

NIce to know ! Thanks !

 

[aig1]

What are you planning on hunting? As MrTwigg acurately pointed out, there's not a lot you can shoot with a handgun (at least in Mass). You will be able to hunt fox, bobcat, and coyote with a handgun, but remember that animals are a lot tougher than humans, and it will take a real kill shot to put one down with a handgun.

If you're confident enough in your stealth and shooting abilities to make a head shot likely, then go for it. I know I wouldn't try.

Thanks! Reading through the abstracts for 2007 what you listed did seem to jump out as potential game.

You bring in a very good point about being able to get close to the game to place a good shot. This is a different kind of challenge that I will be willing to try in due time.

First off I have to figure out how reliably I can shoot my guns and at what distance. Now I can place ~50% of my shots within a 3in circle at 50yrds with a .22LR handgun (S&W M41). Frankly I think I need to shoot much better than that and I want to have this accuracy with larger caliber guns as well. Basically I need to practice a lot

Now learning to sneak on a game is a cool challenge in and of it self.....How I am going to practice that...I do not know.

Thanks for the input guys! This is helpful.

Alexi

 

[EddieCoyle]

Thanks for the input guys! This is helpful.

Alexi,

I hope I didn't encourage you, because I was trying to do the opposite. FMJ and "self-defense" rounds for the 9mm are not good hunting bullets. Physiologically (and psychologically) speaking, game animals are much tougher than humans.

Take a look at hunting bullets for handguns sometime. These are usually heavy, flat nosed, hard cast lead or JSP bullets designed for penetration and weight retention, and shaped to tear as big a wound channel as possible (Google "Keith Bullet" for an idea of what I mean).

For the most part, a good hunting bullet will not feed through an auto-loading handgun (except some of the 10mm bullets specifically designed for hunting). I know of no hunting bullet for the 9mm.

Most handgun hunters use single shot pistols or revolvers for a reason. They give you enough velocity with a heavy, properly shaped bullet to humanely put down a game animal.

 

[Coyote33]

For coyote, check out the .204 Ruger or even better the New 17 Remington Fireball.

MUCH better accuracy than a handgun, more humane, and probably just a little louder than a .22 Mag.

 

[EddieCoyle]

For coyote, check out the .204 Ruger or even better the New 17 Remington Fireball.

MUCH better accuracy than a handgun, more humane, and probably just a little louder than a .22 Mag.

There's nothing wrong with a good old .223 either. Also, agood small-caliber hunting handgun is a Blackhawk in .30 Carbine - especially since you can't carry anything larger than .38 caliber at night.

 

[Coyote33]

Many think the .223 is too much gun if you are going for pelts. Until recent developments, the preferred caliber was .17 Rem.

Does a .38 Special have a larger case capacity than .30 Carbine?

 

[aig1]

Alexi,

I hope I didn't encourage you, because I was trying to do the opposite. FMJ and "self-defense" rounds for the 9mm are not good hunting bullets. Physiologically (and psychologically) speaking, game animals are much tougher than humans.

Take a look at hunting bullets for handguns sometime. These are usually heavy, flat nosed, hard cast lead or JSP bullets designed for penetration and weight retention, and shaped to tear as big a wound channel as possible (Google "Keith Bullet" for an idea of what I mean).

For the most part, a good hunting bullet will not feed through an auto-loading handgun (except some of the 10mm bullets specifically designed for hunting). I know of no hunting bullet for the 9mm.

Most handgun hunters use single shot pistols or revolvers for a reason. They give you enough velocity with a heavy, properly shaped bullet to humanely put down a game animal.

hi Eddie,

You did not encourage me nor did you totally discourage me. What you just said reinforced what I already surmised from reading other handgun-hunting stuff. I may discourage my self though doing conventional hunting and trying to get to within 50 yards of game. If that fails time and time again, I may decide that I should stick to conventional hunting equipment.

I have to say that I am not a big fan of "specialized" hunting hand-guns and I am not intending to buy those, at least not for now. I'd much rather buy a good shotgun or a rifle, but my opinions are prone to changing.

I also hope that I am not leaving you with the impression that I will take a handgun tomorrow and go and start shooting at ever game that is open/legal for handgun hunting. I am a bit more responsible than that

I have read reports of responsible hunters going after coyotes with a .45ACP
(I do not know what platform). So I waned to hear if people have attempted responsible hunting with a semi-auto, what game they went after and with what success.

Whether I will attempt hunting with a hand gun is a decision that I would not have to make for at least few months to come.

I am simply trying to get some wisdom, and as I stated before, you guys are being helpful.

Alexi

 

[Coyote33]

I'd say rabbits or squirrels head-shot with a 9mm jacketed would be just fine as you might get close enough to connect and if you did, it would still leave the meat in good shape. I suppose raccoon also if you are into that.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Does a .38 Special have a larger case capacity than .30 Carbine?

Volume-wise I'll bet the .38 is larger, but you can load a .30 Carbine much hotter. I can easily get a 110gr bullet moving at over 1800 fps out of my M1 Carbine. I have yet to do any load development specifically for the Blackhawk.

I have to say that I am not a big fan of "specialized" hunting hand-guns and I am not intending to buy those, at least not for now. I'd much rather buy a good shotgun or a rifle, but my opinions are prone to changing.

Well, a nice .357 would work just fine and I wouldn't call that a specialized hunting handgun.

 

[aig1]

Well, a nice .357 would work just fine and I wouldn't call that a specialized hunting handgun.

As long as there is no scope on it and the barrel is 6" or less, I could not agree more! Now I just have to convince my self that I like revolvers enough to go and buy something bigger than a S&W 340PD. That will take a lot of convincing....


Now what can I hunt with an RPG...? There is a suggestion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzroIquVy0Y

My wife showed this to me, and I could not stop laughing for a long time. Ammunition must be cheap there....

Alexi

 

[Mikey]

You can also hunt bear with a revolver only of at least .357 or larger, just don't think about a head shot that would be a waste of a nice new bear skin rug. I would go bigger then .357 to make it more humane as well.

 

[dwarven1]

There's nothing wrong with a good old .223 either. Also, a good small-caliber hunting handgun is a Blackhawk in .30 Carbine - especially since you can't carry anything larger than .38 caliber at night.

Never realized that Ruger chambered the Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. Wow.

So, does this state consider a .357 to be larger than a .38? I mean, the bullet diameter is the same...

 

[9000S]

I think the biggest concern here is the ethics of it. You need to be really good shot, and try to put the animal down as quickly as possible. I heard a story today at zerohourarms that some guy shot a groundhog with a .308 and the thing got up and walked it off! I know crazy talk, but he said he saw the dirt blast behind the animal, and that it just zipped through the thing without hitting anything major. A rare shot indeed! ( I think he missed...) but thats the main concern... dont have a pissed off 12 point buck with a screaming headache, cuz you nicked him on the noggin, within 35 yards of you. They CAN kill you even if you dump that whole magazine into him hell be close enough and pissed enough... So select your game and caliber wisely and keep us posted!

 

[Twigg]

So, does this state consider a .357 to be larger than a .38? I mean, the bullet diameter is the same...

The wording in the abstract is "Chambered".

 

[dwarven1]

The wording in the abstract is "Chambered".

Sounds to me like that would allow the .357. I'll have to ask at the hunter safety class I'm going to take next month, just to be sure.

 

[stixnstones]

.22 handgun + squirrels = FUN!

I hunt rabbits & squirrels with a .22 revolver from time to time. I consider it great fun. You have to get close and abide by the proscribed laws in MGL, which I do. But that creates the challenge.

The tougher part with squirrels is that I keep my shots angled level or down which can require patience. I pass up a lot of shots since I don't shoot up into the trees for safety's sake.

A licensed hunter in MA can hunt red squirrels year round.

 

[Pilgrim]

If a .38/.357 is what you want, get one of these. It'll go far enough so you won't have to be on top of the target and it'll knock down about whatever you can hit.