so im looking to get a 20" ar. Most that ive seen assembled seem way over priced or look extremely basic. Im figuring i might as well just buy a complete lower and complete upper and do what i want. Any one have any opinions on this http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...oup-w-Midwest-I-p/bcm-urg-std-20-mi-ssk15.htm
I seem to fancy this one. It says with "group" so i assume its a complete with bolt and such. Anyone have any recommendations on a complete lower? Preferably something with a decent trigger. Maybe even a two stage trigger. Any opinions would be appreciated.
Bravo Company makes quality stuff. Cant go wrong. But i think that price is no BCG or charge handle. I think if you buy a upper you can add them for MUCH cheaper than buying seperate
so im looking to get a 20" ar. Most that ive seen assembled seem way over priced or look extremely basic. Im figuring i might as well just buy a complete lower and complete upper and do what i want. Any one have any opinions on this http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...oup-w-Midwest-I-p/bcm-urg-std-20-mi-ssk15.htm
I seem to fancy this one. It says with "group" so i assume its a complete with bolt and such. Anyone have any recommendations on a complete lower? Preferably something with a decent trigger. Maybe even a two stage trigger. Any opinions would be appreciated.
well, if you're gonna get the BCM upper, get a BCM lower. G&R Tactical sells them complete, you can even specify which trigger. With stock trigger it's like $380, not cheap but at least it'll be a complete BCM.
Bravo Company makes quality stuff. Cant go wrong. But i think that price is no BCG or charge handle. I think if you buy a upper you can add them for MUCH cheaper than buying seperate
Don't forget you will need sights or optics also.
Plenty of help around if you need it. I have the tools and gauges if you decide to assemble your own I can help if your in the Hanover ma area
Building an upper requires a bit of knowledge and some specialized tools.
Assembling is a better word for putting together a lower. There is very very little skill required. You may want to consider using the upper of your choice with a lower you built yourself. That way, you can get exactly the controls, stock, and trigger you want.
I generally never buy complete guns anymore simply because by the time I swap out for an ambi selector, match trigger, and the stock I want, I'm better off building a lower.
Sometimes I built my own uppers, sometimes I don't.
The reasons for buying a factory upper are:
1) Its going to be a rifle you count on. It makes sense for an expert to build it.
2) Low end uppers are cheaper than you could ever build one for. (if you want a beater)
I hope this helps.
This is a LMT factory Upper on a pre-ban lower I assembled myself. Its currently got a Geissele Super 3Gun trigger.
This is a crazy gun I put together to see how light I build a gun with sub MOA accuracy out to the practical limits of the .223 round.
I used inexpensive tricks like using an unenhanced AR15 bolt carrier to save a few ounces. All buffer weights were removed from the buffer. The adjustable gas block is aluminum.
The brake is a Troy that is small and light, but still effective. The barrel is a Lothar Walther. The handguard is a carbon fiber one from Clarkes Custom. It was less than $100. Yes you can get very tactical looking handguards in carbon fiber, but they are $400. The lower is from GWACS armory. Its the only non-aluminum lower I'd buy.
I could shave a few oz by going to a 1" scope and using an aero precision mount, but I love this glass too much to replace it.
It sure is ugly.
But it weighs 5.2 lbs and is insanely accurate until the skinny barrel heats up. Its got effectively no recoil and is an absolute dream to shoot. It cycles so fast you don't even notice the bolt carrier moving.
The Nikon Monarch African 1-4 scope is as fast as an aimpoint up close and is one of the nicest pieces of glass I've ever looked through.
Form follows function.
Thanks for the help guys. I ordered my complete upper forgetting i live in the communist state of Mass so they probably wont ship it to me. Pretty good chance ill get an email monday or tuesday saying they can't ship it. Who knows.. might get lucky.
just a note you said in your first post...... buy a complete upper and lower and do what I want........ do you plan on changing anything on either of them ?
just a note you said in your first post...... buy a complete upper and lower and do what I want........ do you plan on changing anything on either of them ?
The upper i ordered is what im looking for. The lower im currently looking at is this one http://www.spikestactical.com/spider-firesafe-lower-w-enhanced-kit-m4-stock-p-601.html
I have a stock bushmaster e2 rifle with a standard trigger and i don't have much issue with it. I just wanted to make sure the lower i got had a smoother feel which is why im looking at that one.
Why do you want a 20"? In any case if you want a factory gun, get a BCM (Bravo Company). But seriously.... There's no reason to buy a 20" AR. Shorter barrels experience less whip and therefore are as accurate if not more-so within the range that your bullet is stabilized. Get a 1:7 twist and the only drawback to a 16" is a small amount of velocity.
Thanks for the help guys. I ordered my complete upper forgetting i live in the communist state of Mass so they probably wont ship it to me. Pretty good chance ill get an email monday or tuesday saying they can't ship it. Who knows.. might get lucky.
no you probably won't...BCM will ship the upper to you cause it's is legally considered gun parts (they shipped my complete upper to me not issues)...your full lower will have to be shipped to an FFL though since that is where he serial number is
Why do you want a 20"? In any case if you want a factory gun, get a BCM (Bravo Company). But seriously.... There's no reason to buy a 20" AR. Shorter barrels experience less whip and therefore are as accurate if not more-so within the range that your bullet is stabilized. Get a 1:7 twist and the only drawback to a 16" is a small amount of velocity.
Im sure if there was no advantage to the 20" barrel I think the USAMU would not be using them?
I like my 20" rifles. I have no personal experience but something tells me a 20" vs a 16" barrel all things being equal by manufacture, ammo and shooter the knod will go to the 20"
out @ 600 yards.....now if you have no intention to compete or use iron sights then yes there would be little difference between the two.
Why do you want a 20"? In any case if you want a factory gun, get a BCM (Bravo Company). But seriously.... There's no reason to buy a 20" AR. Shorter barrels experience less whip and therefore are as accurate if not more-so within the range that your bullet is stabilized. Get a 1:7 twist and the only drawback to a 16" is a small amount of velocity.
To the OP, is this gonna be for 200 yard+ range target shooting or short range tactical CQB stuff? If the latter just get 16 or 14.5" barrel, as a noob you'll appreciate the lighter weight, helps with keeping the rifle steady.
To the OP, is this gonna be for 200 yard+ range target shooting or short range tactical CQB stuff? If the latter just get 16 or 14.5" barrel, as a noob you'll appreciate the lighter weight, helps with keeping the rifle steady.
A lighter gun is not always going to be easier to keep steady but you might be able to hold it up longer.
It all depends what your going to do with the rifle. NRA high power service rifle or 3 gun. All comes into play. Or just rifle you want to shoot.
I have come to really like my crown only AR barrels. I don't see a much difference between a HBar profile and a heavy match barrel.... I would only guess there is a difference in quality from different manufactures.
I will also agree a nice quality barrel will out shoot most people including myself....heck I think 90% of the people I know can't shoot their entry level ARs with so so ammo to there limits.
It's all fun. I will admit my A2 I use in service rifle matches is a tad heavy for plinking...but I still use it. I have not shot my other ARs since actually getting decent barrels on my A2 and my varmint upper.
My next little project is going to be a 16" bull barrel for scope use only.
It's a tad heavy but I like heavy guns....barrel is 3.2lbs
Mac - I consider my A2 service rifle target gun to be just too heavy for general farting around.
And if I take the weight out of the stock, its way too front heavy.
Its a stock (except for a geissele trigger) Bushmaster CMP gun from about 15 years ago. With a 16x scope clamped to the carry handle, benched, with my reloads, its a .8 moa gun.
Shot the way its supposed to be shot, I'm lucky if I'm 5 moa off hand, 3 moa sitting, and 2 moa prone.
Its all about what you like.
I've started experimenting on a light gun that can sustain accurate fire. I built a gun last year with a 16" Lothar Walther barrel. It was their light contour. It was very accurate for the first 3 or 4 shots but then started to wander as the barrel heated up.
I just purchased a 10.5" heavy barrel. This will give me barrel rigidity without as much weight. Its carbine length gas system means its not an iron sights gun. But it will be interesting to see what this gun will do. I'm hoping to keep weight under 6 lbs.
Mac - I consider my A2 service rifle target gun to be just too heavy for general farting around.
And if I take the weight out of the stock, its way too front heavy.
Its a stock (except for a geissele trigger) Bushmaster CMP gun from about 15 years ago. With a 16x scope clamped to the carry handle, benched, with my reloads, its a .8 moa gun.
Shot the way its supposed to be shot, I'm lucky if I'm 5 moa off hand, 3 moa sitting, and 2 moa prone.
Its all about what you like.
I've started experimenting on a light gun that can sustain accurate fire. I built a gun last year with a 16" Lothar Walther barrel. It was their light contour. It was very accurate for the first 3 or 4 shots but then started to wander as the barrel heated up.
I just purchased a 10.5" heavy barrel. This will give me barrel rigidity without as much weight. Its carbine length gas system means its not an iron sights gun. But it will be interesting to see what this gun will do. I'm hoping to keep weight under 6 lbs.
very true....... although after shooting some accurate ARs I sold off most of my other ARs and my mil spec A2 just sits there looking sad. I spoiled myself with a accuate rifle and very good ammo... If I just want to go fun blasting the MAC90 or M1 carbine generally go vs the AR mil spec carbine or rifle. Im not really looking to go light just short with out the SBR stamp. simple clean lines. No brake, no rails just barrel, tube, nice trigger and decent scope basically a 200 yard varmint gun.
Mac
I agree completely. I only build accurate guns since they are much more fun to shoot.
But you can build a highly accurate AR with a stainless mil spec diameter barrel. (not a full mil spec barrel, i.e. chrome molly and chrome lined)
When I was breaking in my latest .308, I threw a scope on it and while shooting at 25 yards, it made one hole. Accuracy testing wasn't the point of the exercise. (25 yards isn't exactly a challenge) But it was still nice to see it group well.
Mac
I agree completely. I only build accurate guns since they are much more fun to shoot.
But you can build a highly accurate AR with a stainless mil spec diameter barrel. (not a full mil spec barrel, i.e. chrome molly and chrome lined)
When I was breaking in my latest .308, I threw a scope on it and while shooting at 25 yards, it made one hole. Accuracy testing wasn't the point of the exercise. (25 yards isn't exactly a challenge) But it was still nice to see it group well.
you touch a good point. I know several people who have built ARs with the least expensive stuff they could find. Very bottom of the barrel shit, functional yes but thats it.
When for just a a little more money and patience you can find quality parts and build a better rifle than you can buy complete in the store. I have built my share of "budget " rifles but I knew what I was building....case in point.
Friend built a AR with the cheapest stuff he could find, I have not even heard of some of the vendors he used ( There are many it seems now) was all proud he built his carbine for 500$ complete with sights......hes not so proud now as the rifle just wont shoot well at all. he cant even get 3 shots into the center of the 25m zero target. He bought his barrel from a surplus vendor 1;7 twist it just doesnt shoot well with any ammo BUT he only paid 79$ for the barrel
If you are new to the AR and only have $500 to $600 to spend, just get a M&P Sport.
Once you know what you want, its fine got buy cheap parts.
I just picked up a mid length 16" upper with a BCG and charging handle for $289 from PSA.
Its going on a machine gun lower. So precision isn't really required. Although single shot, it actually shoots pretty good. But its a crap shoot when you buy cheap.
All I cared with this upper is that it ran. And it runs. It even came with a full auto bolt carrier so I have no problems with it tripping the autosear.
If you are new to the AR and only have $500 to $600 to spend, just get a M&P Sport.
Once you know what you want, its fine got buy cheap parts.
I just picked up a mid length 16" upper with a BCG and charging handle for $289 from PSA.
Its going on a machine gun lower. So precision isn't really required. Although single shot, it actually shoots pretty good. But its a crap shoot when you buy cheap.
All I cared with this upper is that it ran. And it runs. It even came with a full auto bolt carrier so I have no problems with it tripping the autosear.
That's a good price for a upper that functions and fits your needs well. I know a few guys at my club that went all PSA crazy and are not to happy now. PTAC stuff mostly. I have one friend with the sport who has taken the time to start reloading and has found a load the rifle really likes with nosler flat base 55 grain bullets will shoot nice consistent -1.5" groups rested with a scope vs minute of torso with the M193/855 food he has tried.
It's all fun and you will learn what you like and want through the process....
My next build might be a AR that meets the CMPs modern military match rules. Which will by rules need a gov. Profile barrel.?
Get what you want but personally I liked the lighter rifles and I like piston driven ar's for cleaning purposes. I held an lwrc 16in that was super light and a rhino heavy barrel 16 in I personally would have gotten the lwrc if not for that pesky price tag
