Is a new AWB inevitable?

Mass-diver

Mass-diver

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Although I've was raised around firearms, I've only been really into shooting for the last 5 years or so. I often think how great it would have been to had the foresight to stock up on now banned items back in the 80s and even the early 90s. MP5s, preban AR-15s, Uzis, etc. - man, if only I had known!!!

So, my question is, are we living in a time like that now? Do you think in the near future another devasting ban (at the state or the fed level) is going to hit us hard? Right now I have an AR-15 and an Ak-47. I'm not even that into shooting my rifles, espically since I have a carry permit and like to practice with my carry gun as much as possible. However, I'm wondering if I should pick up another AR-15 or an MIA in the near future. I've been planning on a getting a 1911 at Xmas, I've always wanted one and I know I'll shoot it a lot. But, I wonder if I should be spending the funds on a another rifle instead? I don't want to be the equivalant of a guy buying a single shot revolver on the eve of the first AWB. Anyone else struggling with this?
 
an
Click to expand...
This is a problem, since "an" is singular :)

I'd recommend getting the nicest AR you can find - that way, even if we get lucky and there is no ban, you still end up with a fine rifle.
 
I'd think it'd be safe to say everyone who reads your post is already stocking up on ammo ,reloading components,and/or firearms. If you can afford to buy any of these things you'll never be sorry you did.[wink]
 
Mass-diver said:
Do you guys think that M1As will be included in the next AWB (even though they lack a pistol-grip)?
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None of us have a crystal ball.

We won't know what's in the bill or law until it happens and then it's too late.

Expend energy in seeing to it that it doesn't pass . . . and your $$ in buying what you want now. Better use of time and energy.
 
Mass-diver said:
Do you guys think that M1As will be included in the next AWB (even though they lack a pistol-grip)?
Click to expand...

There was some federal legislation in play just a few months ago - the bill number and the female legislator who was pushing it escape me now - but I do remember what was on the list:

M1A
M1 Garand
M1 carbine.

So far I have my M1A, I got a M1 carbine a few months ago, and I have a few Garands. I still want to get an AR, maybe an FAL, and other assorted rifles that may become listed on any potential ban.

What is the likelihood? I don't honestly know. The gun banners are stilly trying - but acceptance of the right to bear arms has also gained a lot in the last few years. The Virginia Tech shooting brought out the anti's - but they don't seem to have gotten very far. The threat of terrorism - and taking away people's right to defend themselves against that sort of thing - also play in here somehow.

I think the best thing you can do is to just buy as much as you can - and try to get other people involved and get them buying as many firearms as they can. I do remember reading somewhere that there are something like 200 million firearms in this country - one of the best ways we can keep the anti's at bay is to make sure that number continues to increase - they will have a damn hard time confiscating 300 million odd firearms if we can push the number that high.
 
The problem in this state is that everything is registered. What says they don't go through the DB and come ring your doorbell if a new ban is imposed? Best way to avoid that is ... well, most of us know. But if that's the case, then why worry about pre-ban or post-ban, if it's kept out of this state. Just can't use it here. In the case of SHTF, then who cares. We'd have bigger things to worry about.
 
bazfoo said:
The problem in this state is that everything is registered. What says they don't go through the DB and come ring your doorbell if a new ban is imposed? Best way to avoid that is ... well, most of us know. But if that's the case, then why worry about pre-ban or post-ban, if it's kept out of this state. Just can't use it here. In the case of SHTF, then who cares. We'd have bigger things to worry about.
Click to expand...

I have made this argument before to some people - but the major problem with registration is that there aren't enough firearms. Since we as firearm owners are a minority - registration makes it easy for them to proceed to confiscation.

There is a flip side to registration however - if (and I know this is unlikely) there were many more firearms than there are now - and the vast majority of people owned firearms - preferably firearms that could be considered a "militia weapon" as the 2nd amendment talks about - then all the registration would do is serve to show the govt how hopeless their task was. If every single person owned multiple firearms the govt. could never hope to get them all - and the govt. would know how utterly futile this task would be - because they would have the numbers.

I am not advocating registration - all I am saying is that there are ways to "game the system" if this is what they want to shove down our throats - it means however we have to be prepared to spend a lot of money - and convince many other people to do the same.
 
bazfoo said:
The problem in this state is that everything is registered. What says they don't go through the DB and come ring your doorbell if a new ban is imposed? Best way to avoid that is ... well, most of us know. But if that's the case, then why worry about pre-ban or post-ban, if it's kept out of this state. Just can't use it here. In the case of SHTF, then who cares. We'd have bigger things to worry about.
Click to expand...

I don't think that confiscation at the federal level is something we have to worry about in the near future. If it came to that at the state level (which might happen here in MA), I'd move.
 
sneeky

Maybe we could nullify it by changing it's terminology from "semi-auto" to "semi-automatic machine guns and other semi-automatics that can fire 3 or more rounds with each pull of the trigger." This way it will have no affect on semi-autos OR full autos. If they can make up terms to make things sound nasty, so can we. The ban gets passed, they are happy because they think they banned something evil, we are happy because nothing that exists got banned.

Perhaps we could have them update the NFA with the same term.

frizz
 
As far as this state goes.... if the legislature gets it on its
dinner plate, it could pass. You -know- that U-haul deval
will sign it into law. The only thing thats holding it back
now is political sloth; eg, the fact that the MA legislamers are
basically distracted. Right now it seems the anti gun bills
are the typical fodder dispensed by linsky, creem, etc, that
have little chance of passing because they're either too
complicated or cost money. All that can change in an
instant, though. It's not like they don't have the votes to
do it, it's all in the implementation.

As far as the feds go? If it's going to happen it won't be
for awhile- pols on the hill are still bleeding from the last time
it happened. Right now in the house/senate only the full on
incumbent moonbats (McCarthy, Swinestine, Boxer, Schumer, etc)
will even bring up gun control. If Hitlery gets elected, and
some more seats flip to full blown moonbats, some of that
could change, but even a lot of the mainstream dems are staying
away from the obvious third rail here. (I'm not saying their views
change, they're still antis, they're just deferring their agenda until
the conditions are a bit more favorable.

-Mike
 
When it comes to gun control I assume the worst and am stocking up on hardware, mags and ammo as best I can.

Looking at the list of pres candidates, all but two (from both sides of the aisle) are anti.
Don't believe Rudy and Mitt when they say that they support the 2nd.
 
Stocking up doesn't help the next generation though.. this is what I'm mostly concerned about. We'll be fine for now.
 
What are some really nice AR's?
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There are many really decent AR's out there (Bushmaster is quality stuff), however, there is also a tier of "better than really nice AR's".

One of the top AR's out there JP (www.jprifles.com). They have the CTR-02 which uses a totally milled receiver and is competition oriented (no forward assist, choice of three bolt weights [get the middle one]); a JP-15 (more conventional forged lower, forward assist, not as super tight on the upper to lower fit [so it can break down without using a tool to push the pin], or their VTAC tactical AR15. Plan on spending some time once you have picked out the general model as you will need to pick barrel length; barrel weight; barrel twist; stock type and sighting system.

JP's use single stage triggers - perfect for action shooting. I you prefer a double stage trigger, you'll need to look elsewhere.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
There are many really decent AR's out there (Bushmaster is quality stuff), however, there is also a tier of "better than really nice AR's".

One of the top AR's out there JP (www.jprifles.com). They have the CTR-02 which uses a totally milled receiver and is competition oriented (no forward assist, choice of three bolt weights [get the middle one]); a JP-15 (more conventional forged lower, forward assist, not as super tight on the upper to lower fit [so it can break down without using a tool to push the pin], or their VTAC tactical AR15. Plan on spending some time once you have picked out the general model as you will need to pick barrel length; barrel weight; barrel twist; stock type and sighting system.

JP's use single stage triggers - perfect for action shooting. I you prefer a double stage trigger, you'll need to look elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Cool. Thanks. I'm thinking I may buy a receiver just as a hedge but I'm not completely decided. How are the Smith M&P rifles?
 
PaulD said:
What are some really nice AR's?
Click to expand...

Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, Stag Arms are probably the biggest sellers out there. All make excellent firearms. I guess the deal breaker in choosing one of the above would be customer support/satisfaction if you're concerned about that kind of thing.

RRA used to be a PITA, but my last experience with them was a number of years ago. I have no idea what their service is like nowadays. Bushmaster always had excellent support in the past, but again, that was a few years ago and since then they've been acquired by another company (British based out of NYC I believe?).

And of course for the purists there's Colt (over rated/over priced).

On the other end, there's Hesse which has a horrible reputation (there are probably others to avoid, but Hesse is the one that immediately comes to mind),


Mikey said:
Am I correct in saying that Bushmaster rifles are "mil-spec" while many others like OlyArms are not???
Click to expand...

I guess that depends on how you define "mil-spec"?

Short answer... no AR-15 on the market is truly "mil-spec" (the actual specifications as applied to the M-16 aren't public info).

(some interesting info in these threads...
http://archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=212613

http://archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=233802

http://archive.ar15.com/forums/index.html?b=0)

Personally, I think the "mil-spec" criteria/concern is overly anal, however, as far as current production ARs for the civilian market goes, there should be very few (if any), problems with manufacturer parts interchangeability. The only concern I might have is with pairing up one manufacturers barrel with anothers bolt (possible headspace issues).
 
Not so if you read a decent legal analysis of what that case is all about. Info has been posted here back some months ago.
 
I think it will depending on what the SCOTUS rules (if they do take the case). If the Second Amendment is ruled an individual right, a ban on any particular type of firearm held unconstitutional, etc., it will make trouble for any AWB with such a precedent, and also the 86 MG ban (which is exactly like the DC handgun ban only it's purely a federal law passed by Congress). If the SCOTUS does not hear the case, the DC Circuit has declared the Second an individual right, and any federal law can be challenged through the DC Circuit. I don't think a ban on a type of gun will be accepted by the courts as a "reasonable restriction." I doubt a sweeping ruling will be made if the SCOTUS does rule it an individual right, but any individual rights case will serve as a precedent for other cases. It will be a slow process challenging various laws, it won't be an overnight change. But this is all hypothetical until we see how the SCOTUS acts.
 
If your AR-15 can legally accept those cool evil features you might want to check out the POF upper recievers. It's the same thing as the HK-416 from what one guy told me.


LoginName said:
Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, Stag Arms are probably the biggest sellers out there. All make excellent firearms. I guess the deal breaker in choosing one of the above would be customer support/satisfaction if you're concerned about that kind of thing.

RRA used to be a PITA, but my last experience with them was a number of years ago. I have no idea what their service is like nowadays. Bushmaster always had excellent support in the past, but again, that was a few years ago and since then they've been acquired by another company (British based out of NYC I believe?).

And of course for the purists there's Colt (over rated/over priced).

On the other end, there's Hesse which has a horrible reputation (there are probably others to avoid, but Hesse is the one that immediately comes to mind),




I guess that depends on how you define "mil-spec"?

Short answer... no AR-15 on the market is truly "mil-spec" (the actual specifications as applied to the M-16 aren't public info).

(some interesting info in these threads...
http://archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=212613

http://archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=233802

http://archive.ar15.com/forums/index.html?b=0)

Personally, I think the "mil-spec" criteria/concern is overly anal, however, as far as current production ARs for the civilian market goes, there should be very few (if any), problems with manufacturer parts interchangeability. The only concern I might have is with pairing up one manufacturers barrel with anothers bolt (possible headspace issues).
Click to expand...
 
ASG,

You better read up on what exactly the case is about! USSC ONLY rules on narrow points of law . . . they will not address all the issues surrounding the 2nd A as that is NOT what this case is about.

Search the thread on this case and look for RKG's posts. He's an attorney and well versed in these matters. He addresses the effect of this case (assuming in our favor) on MA gun laws (essentially none).
 
no matter what we do.... its a matter of time before the AWB comes back to all states. Our time is limited. We live in a Liberal world and its just getting worse. Dont forget, the AWB never went away in MA. Its still going strong here.

a world where Liberals will die for their right to use the 1st Amendment but will also die to take away our right to use the 2nd.

makes me sick.

get as much as you can now (out of state if you live in MA of course) and get ready for the Liberals to assume their position in the political office and make our lives miserable.

[sad2][sad2]
 
jamz said:
Unless Thompson or Paul become president, we will absolutely get a permanent AWB.

All democratic and most republican candidates would sign one.
Click to expand...

That's my fear as well. While we still have an AWB here, I would suspect that a new federal AWB would be considerably more drastic than the late one. I think many of the anti's are pissed that even in MA we can still buy AR-15 (although slightly neutered). I would guess that the new ban would outlaw any semi-automatic rifle with a pistol grip.

For me, I have an AR-15 and an AK, but I plan on buying a .308 before November '08
 
LenS said:
ASG,

You better read up on what exactly the case is about! USSC ONLY rules on narrow points of law . . . they will not address all the issues surrounding the 2nd A as that is NOT what this case is about.

Search the thread on this case and look for RKG's posts. He's an attorney and well versed in these matters. He addresses the effect of this case (assuming in our favor) on MA gun laws (essentially none).
Click to expand...

I suspect the case will have little effect on MA for the time being and don't doubt him a bit on that matter, but I'm thinking in terms of any federal laws (there is no state AWB in VT, where I am, so federal law is my focus as there are few gun laws in VT; though I do care about issues in other states too, federal laws are simply the ones that will affect me most at the moment). As a case in a matter of a federal law can go through the DC Circuit no matter which state it originates in, any federal AWB can be challenged through a court that has ruled the Second is an individual right (the DC Circuit that is, a very good thing for those under courts adopting the non-individual rights view, like the 9th circuit), and that a gun ban is un-constitutional. That is a very good thing. If the SCOTUS rules correctly in the case we have at least a reasonable chance of a court striking down a federal AWB. Whether or not the Second will be applied to the states as other amendments have, is another matter. I'm not so sure they will go that far, so there will likely still be state battles, but federal laws are half the battle in gun control issues, they affect everyone, even those of us in free states that don't restrict weapons.

The brief filed by DC (and NY, IL and others in support of DC in amici curiae briefs) has attempted to narrow down the issue to a question of solely the handgun ban, claiming that they allow long arms in DC and therefore that is enough, as long as some guns are allowed it's not breaking the Second Amendment (basically, this is what they're trying to say is what the court needs to decide). They of course are misleading in that long arms must be disassembled and locked up (which brings up the "bear" part of the Second as well, but I'm not sure if there will be anything said on that by the court as the keep issue is the main one here...). The reply by Heller is basically saying that is not the issue here, it is broader, a question of whether or not the Second protects the rights of individuals to keep functioning firearms, be they handguns or long guns. The justices, in the end, will decide if they take the case and what they will rule on. It will likely be narrow but any SCOTUS case upholding an individual right and overturning the handgun ban will make future fights against federal laws much easier than currently (since, essentially, there is no real Second Amendment protection currently when you think about it). How it will affect state laws is another matter, but I understand a case against the Chicago handgun restrictions is being planned and that may be helpful depending on how everything goes...I would prefer though that the next case is against the 86 MG ban but I'm sure that unless the SCOTUS rules against an individual right, that will be a future case brought up by somebody, going through the DC Circuit if the SCOTUS does not rule on the Heller case. I'd love to see the whole NFA eliminated but I'm not that hopeful yet, though a $200 tax on grenades (each) and such and a pile of paperwork is clearly an infringement made to make it difficult/expensive for people to own these weapons, I suspect the courts will allow registration laws on these weapons, but maybe the tax amount can be challenged in the future...not too hopeful though like I said. It's going to be one court fight after another to get rid of gun control, in bits and pieces.
 

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